Article 50 Discussion

[London1971]

Hi,

 

Believe me as a British Jew, I believe Israel is ripe for criticism, the Israelis I work with are hyper critical of their own country.

 

However, it’s a fine line and unfortunately Criticism of Israel can be a Trojan horse for antisemitism.

 

I present the example of an ex friend of my wife, always posting on Facebook about Israel and building settlements etc. Pretty fair criticism really. But slowly over time her posts started about Zionist conspiracies etc.  
 

Unfortunately it’s that sort of thinking that led to the holocaust and there is no place for it in a civilised society.

 

 

[tobyjugg2]

and when you look into the (alleged) greater detail. Long Bailey was given multiple chances

 

The original tweet clearly had an anti-semitic addition which was not only false (which Peake acknowledged afterward)

but IMO clearly detracted from the supposed main point about police brutality (unless you are are anti-Semitic)

 

Long Bailey then retweeted, effectively it giving it support, and then when challenged on the content,

rather than simply delete the tweet and apologise for the accidental support of an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory as she could and should, (and simply left people continuing to think she would support owt that said Corbyn was a hero)

 

- NO - She re tweeted AGAIN simply stating she didn't necessarily support all the tweet she had retweeted again.

 

To add to that stupidity, Bailey was then apparently given a number of opportunities (demands) from the leaders office (Starmer) to correct her bad judgement - which she failed to do REPEATEDLY.

 

Even putting common decency aside,

given that one of THE main focuses of Starmers leadership campaign was zero tolerance of anti-Semitism, Starmer was really left with no choice - and did what was right and needed.

 

- We aren't talking about the elitist/populist Johnson party where heaven and earth is moved to sweep blatant abuses under the carpet (Cummings, Jenrick, Patel et al) as long as you are 'important' enough.

 

 

 

 

[London1971]

It’s so hard for me and my family to understand , all life time Labour voters. What exactly have we done to deserve this?

 

How could Corbyn let this go on under his watch ?

 

But I’m hopeful that Starmer will fix this !

[tobyjugg2]

Too true London

 

To me the whole affair simply reinforces the opinion and evidence that anti-Semitism is as ingrained into the Corbynista movement as elitism and lies are in the Johnsonite populist movement.

 

 

* That a high profile Corbyn supporter should introduce that conspiracy theory into the tweet in the first place really leads to only one conclusion

 

* That Long-Bailey happily retweeted it praising the tweeter/article

 

* That Long-Bailey didn't immediately denounce it in horror once the content was pointed out - that she perhaps 'must have missed before praising promoting the article/author

 

* that Long-Bailey apparently tried to use a 'I want a press conference to protect my image and make my point before she would (probably still not) denounce it

 

* That Corbynistas leap to Bailey and Peakes defence rather than simply denouncing the issue as horrendous misjudgement at best, requiring clear immediate apologies,  retractions and denouncements.

 

* with little more than a one line half baked 'correction' along with a poorly defined claim to loath racism at best from one of them, and not even that or anything more than self-interest 'everyone else is wrong as I will explain in a press conference whatever the cost to the Labour Party' at best from Bailey.

 

 

Bloody disgrace that BADLY needed a quick and hefty stomp from Starmer. particularly given Baileys reticence in dealing with it properly herself.

 

and Those supporting Baileys actions in this should be utterly ashamed of themselves.

 

 

In effect, Long Baileys arrogance has ensured that she was quickly sacked from the shadow cabinet, and that IS the right and BEST result for the Labour Party.

 

 

 

 

[brassnecked]

Momentum will try to get rid of Starmer, its what they do, revenge.  They are as far left as Lenin and Corbyn prefers Islam to Jews, he sees more labour block votes from them with people like Naz Shah.  They are as bad as Johnson as the flip side of the coin.

[London1971]

Can you imagine how it would have been if Long Bailey had been elected leader?

 

I quite agree that momentum are easily as bad as the ultra right hard Brexiteers.

 

I sincerely hope that we are at the low watermark of politics and that over the next few years the pendulum swings back to  less extremes of politics. It’s looking good in the US now for Trump to lose the election, maybe that will be the first domino to fall.

[honeybee13]

I would just like to mention that I hope we don't agree with any sort of 'ism', gender, sexual orientation, islamophobia and so on.

[brassnecked]

No all equal and welcome on CAG I would like to think

[tobyjugg2]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/27/labour-has-taken-too-long-to-stamp-out-antisemitism-says-corbyn-ally

 

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/long-bailey-labour-should-expel-members-found-guilty-of-antisemitism-1.486202

 

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/labour-has-failed-to-win-trust-of-jewish-community-admits-rebecca-long-bailey-179235

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1121346/labour-antisemitism-row-party-news-latest-rebecca-long-bailey-jeremy-corbyn-book-tome

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/corbyn-antisemitism-book-ja-hobson-imperalism-jewish-labour-a8894086.html

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44915925

Labour will 'get it right' says Rebecca Long-Bailey

 

- Took a while, but it seems she was right on that last one ... at long last.

 

[tobyjugg2]

On 24/06/2020 at 10:31, tobyjugg2 said:

 

 

and to refute in advance one of the main Brexiter excuses:

https://lawyersforbritain.org/brexit-legal-guide/wto-and-international-trade/negotiating-international-trade-treaties-before-exit

 

" Since the United Kingdom’s referendum vote to leave the European Union, it has been suggested that the UK may not negotiate future free trade agreements (‘FTAs’) with countries outside the EU while it remains a member state.  This view has no support from the EU Treaties or the Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU): the EU may not prevent the UK negotiating and entering into such treaties providing that they will not come into force until the UK withdraws from the EU."

 

 

and heres how little the Tories have done in the 4 years they have had, let alone their claim that deals across the world larger than the EU were ready to go and should have been there to meet their referendum claims/lies

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-trade-agreements-with-non-eu-countries

[honeybee13]

That was a good find, TJ.

[tobyjugg2]

and the detail is entirely lacking in what is included in the deals from the official source there, with broad woolly statements making it look far better than it actually proves to be when you start digging into the detail.

 

Mind you, the small, excessively bent and over ripe bananas Johnson wanted ->  still seem to be there,

BUT he will undoubtedly take the opportunity to have them labelled as 'grade A premium bananas' and remove any 'source/origin/pesticide' labelling once we leave the EU

 

Edited June 30, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[honeybee13]

Bloomberg have got hold of the government's plan for the borders after Brexit. I don't have a subscription so it's only the beginning of the article, but maybe someone else has an article on it.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-29/after-brexit-lorries-set-to-need-taxman-s-permission-to-move?srnd=premium

 

Here's their Twitter feed which has a couple of links.

 

[brassnecked]

Meanwhile as good a take on Trans-end as any, Dr North looks at aviation as an example, links to sources in article.  One thing the EU document does is Expose 'Ol Snake Oil Shankar Singham as a cretinous looney .

 

https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/files/notice_to_stakeholders_aviation_access.pdf

 

https://www.turbulenttimes.co.uk/news/brexit/brexit-notices-for-readiness/

[tobyjugg2]

"The European Union will impose full customs controls and checks on goods from the U.K. from 2021, declining to reciprocate London’s plan to offer traders a six-month grace period."

 

"Goods crossing the U.K.-EU border will require customs declarations and products of animal origin will need health certificates. "

 

 

.. being as the EU have implemented the changes necessary and the UK hasn't despite the Uk's empty bluster in all areas

 

You really can't effectively bluff a rule based organisation and expect them to keep doing you favours when all you do is spit in their eye.

 

 

 

"The U.K. is planning a ‘shock and awe’ information campaign (on UK companies)  from July onwards to encourage businesses to make preparations."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-17/u-k-plans-shock-and-awe-campaign-to-prepare-firms-for-brexit

 

 

err isnt July rather late?

or do we read an an expected extension of further UK failure to implement 'its stated goals' there?

 

 

 

 

"“We have designed a new alternative model” that will “achieve full customs control on EU goods from July 2021 whilst recognizing the practical realities of high-volume EU-facing locations with limited space to physically hold goods,” HMRC said in the document."

 

.... How are those lorry park plans coming along?

 

Edited June 30, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[honeybee13]

Bloomberg have highlighted the part of the document that says the system for lorries will rely on an IT system that isn't ready yet! What's the betting it won't be ready and/or working properly by the end of the year?

[honeybee13]

Reading the Twitter thread, the page of the report [89 pages] for Ro-Ro ferries is blank.

 

This means all the goods that pass through Dover and Calais don't know how it's going to work. Anyone who's taken the ferry or the tunnel will know how many food lorries there are going back and forth, including fresh fruit and veg.

[tobyjugg2]

More from bloomberg

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-10/here-s-how-a-no-deal-brexit-would-shock-virus-hit-u-k-plc

 

 

2 points

 

The 'flooding the UK market with UK produce that goes to the EU' might seem a bonus to some, but they should consider

* They go to the EU because they will pay more and there is a larger market to cater for more 'specialised produce

* That extra income is the model that supports the industry

* The UK market flood would be of more expensive cuts for a short period until the industry either went broke or started concentrating on 'cheaper 'lower quality produce

* Don't forget that the more expensive cuts support the lower pricing of the cheaper cuts

 

 

Point 2

The EU is looking for a level playing field with equivalent food, environmental, health and safety and workers rights ... and which continues to be equivalent

 

The UK is looking for an EU agreement that can be amended or interpreted by them in any way they like unilaterally under the control of their own lawmaking, meaning that the 'agreement' would be defunct and worthless before the ink was dry on the paper.

- still the cake and eat it approach.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 1, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[brassnecked]

t 2021Reasonably acidic take on the situation here 

http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=87655#disqus_thread

 

Think the IEA will be sick as parrots come January 1st 2021 when Shanksr Singham's Mutual Equivalence Snake Oil is exposed as a big con.

[tobyjugg2]

"The two sides could jointly schedule a toilet break and that could be categorised as an agreement"
"... that would probably qualify as a major breakthrough"

 

 

... the great deal

How appropriate that it would be taking a P***

 

 

 

 

[honeybee13]

Perfect, we've spent £500 million on 20% of a company whose satellite probably won't work with GPS, just to avoid having to ask to be in the Galileo project.

 

Adding a quote from the article.

 

'Lack of access altogether to such a system would, according to the Government’s own commissioned research, cost the UK economy an estimated £1 billion a day or one-sixth of its GDP.

Stick that on the side of a bus.'

 

https://bylinetimes.com/2020/06/30/uks-rival-to-galileo-a-brexit-farce/

[honeybee13]

MPs told that Brits are being refused interviews in Europe because of Brexit.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/job-interviews-british-citizens-europe-brexit-a9593066.html

[honeybee13]

The Guardian has seen the document with the new rules for goods going to Northern Ireland. Businesses were repeatedly told there would be no paperwork and now it turns out there are three separate online forms to complete.

 

They're not happy that eight months have been wasted denying that there would be any formalities. HMG want to streamline the process but this hasn't been done yet.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jul/02/first-details-emerge-of-system-for-checks-on-goods-crossing-irish-sea

 

 

[tobyjugg2]

Edited July 2, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[honeybee13]

That aged well, then, TJ.