Article 50 Discussion

[king12345]

7 minutes ago, king12345 said:

you were convinced brexit would be stopped, i said it will go ahead.

 

[tobyjugg2]

2 minutes ago, king12345 said:

 

I hoped Brexit would be stopped, found it hard to believe the UK would be so stupid

I gave supported facts to support my opinion and stance

Opinions - supported by facts in those supporting links you don't like

 

 

Now how about some facts

 

We have started the transistion

.. thats a simple fact.

 

Support your opinion that business will be booming

Edited February 2, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[king12345]

9 hours ago, king12345 said:

the fact that you were convinced brexit would be stopped, i said it will go ahead.

Brexit happened: FACT!

Uk leaving nazist EU doesn't mean Uk people are stupid.

Again you believe to be better than anyone else.

You are not: FACT!

Bye.

[tobyjugg2]

LOL

I see why 'most' of your posts are edited

Simply ask for some supportable facts on which you based your claim and get that

 

(I agree they should be flagged as edited though, perhaps 'edited as complete abusive b*****cks with no real content' in your case)

 

(I called Murdock unfit in one of mine)

- just to show it aint all lefty tree hugging censorship as YOU might think

Edited February 2, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

Lets look at an example

British steel

 

being taken over by China isn't it

 

Now, what is most of the world doing to Chinese steel - allegedly due to state supported pricing and dumping?

 

 

Now how about the British Motor manufacturing industry?

 

and the UK Farming industry?

[tobyjugg2]

LOL

So we have buckthorn who knows more than anybody, so much so that linked quality papers by experts in the field aren't worth looking at because he knows more

... presumably that knowledge simply given to him by God in an epiphany .. God needing no references

 

and king12345 who won't link his source (probably misrepresentation of an IMF report which was referring to what could come from a positive UK-EU deal) as he wouldn't want more than the headline examines ... as it requires a good deal with the EU to warrant the result he simply claims as 'to happen'

.. Johnson, Gove et al seem to be flushing any chance of that away in their building of Singapore-on-Thames

 

Bleach it all you want - it still stinks

 

 

 

[king12345]

I don't understand what link you want me to post.

Brexit happened: if you want a link to this fact you really need help.

I then made 2 predictions. 

There are no link to predictions because if they happen, they happen in the future.

I was right with my prediction that Brexit would go ahead, you were wrong.

Let's see my other 2 predictions,  it will take 5 years for the first and 15 for the second.

[tobyjugg2]

So they are just opinions, with nothing to back them .. but faith in Boris johnson ... ?

 

Thats fine, you are entitled to it, and I understand how brexiters have had enough of 'experts who disagree with their epiphany's,

... especially as those experts have not much more than experimental results, science, history, prior examples, maths and common sense to support them - particularly as they do very occasionally get it wrong.

 

I do hope you can understand and accept that some prefer to take more note of those expert quality relevant supporting reasons for holding an opinion, despite them occasionally not getting it 100% right.

 

 

 

brexit happened?   What brexit was/is that?

The one where:

'It would all be sorted before any legal process to Leave was started

'No one was threatening our place in the single market

'No prime minister would ever consider or allow a border between the UK and NI

'£350m a week extra for the NHS

 

... the list goes on and on?

 

 

I'm simply not seeing that brexit, the one that was sold and presented

We quite clearly seem to actually be on a fast boat to Singapore-on-Thames - something we were specifically told would not happen.

 

Thats simply no more the brexit sold than ordering a chicken sandwich and being given a dried turd sandwich.

 

 

 

 

[tobyjugg2]

Johnson really is trying to be a little Trump isn't he :

 

Journalists walk out of No 10 after bid to impose selective briefing of Boris Johnson's Brexit plans

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-brexit-news-journalists-walk-out-no-10-briefing-a9314996.html

 

" Journalists walked out of a Downing Street briefing on Boris Johnson’s Brexit plans after the prime minister’s director of communications tried to restrict it to selected publications and broadcasters. "

 

 

 

 

Less successfully than big Trump mind you ..
 

Trump press ban: BBC, CNN and Guardian denied access to briefing

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/24/media-blocked-white-house-briefing-sean-spicer

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[honeybee13]

It's really going against precedent for no10 to pick and choose which journos should attend any particular briefing. I was pleased to see that the journos today weren't having any of it.

 

Changing the subject, the Guardian has a new article on food safety. Bojo seems to be glossing over things.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/feb/03/boris-johnson-must-examine-the-science-of-cheap-food-imports

[tobyjugg2]

They have also laid down the starting blocks for negotiations HB

 

Johnson

* no need to bind UK to agreement. 

(For Farages Sake  - effectively -  no binding agreement just trust us)

* Will include fisheries on an annual basis - just trust us to be fair and honest

* Gibraltar part of the non agreement just trust us to do whatever we want agreement

 

EU

* Both the EU and UK must agree on level playing field

(eg no dropping of standards - shouldn't be a problem for Johnson high standards eh? LOL)

* UK financial services will no longer have passporting rights  

(oh dear, the EU doesn't give a monkeys about the UKs'  'world financial centre' at least whatever might remain in a year)

* FTA would need to include deal on fisheries

(seems to be largely the EU saying nowt else is that important to them)

* Gibraltar not part of any deal

(As Spain is a member - the UK isn't - Spain has a veto - as the EU rules require - just like the UK did as a member)

 

 

On currency markets, the pound fell sharply

 

 

Edited February 3, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

On 01/02/2020 at 23:28, king12345 said:

2. In 15 years time the EU in its present form will cease to exist.

 

 

 

So lets expand on my 'obviously, as the EU will have new members

 

The United Island of Ireland, and an independent Scotland

with their ports becoming the Atlantic gateways and with Scotland being the new goods route to and from the EU (Dont forget the energy pipelines)

 

Irish and Scottish territorial waters in the EU ... along with the North migrating fish

 

A much closer EU relationship/partnership with Russia to balance the increased self serving of the US

and to open up the northern european continent regions  due to  climate change

- especially if Trump gets a second term

 

More stability in Iraq, Iran and Syria with them aligning more toward  the EU & Russia

(Really not sure how Turkey fits in - could go a number of ways)

 

 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[honeybee13]

The Financial Times has done some calculations based on Bank of England predictions on the economy and Sajid Javid's rules. They predict a black hole in the budget in 2022-23.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/27b81994-4690-11ea-aeb3-955839e06441

[tobyjugg2]

I was looking at that earlier today HB

 

Theres some snippets which allow some significant interpretations too.

 

" It estimated that the economy would grow no more than 1.1 per cent a year if the bank stuck to its 2 per cent inflation target. "

- it was projected to be 4.8% although God knows where that 4.8% came from - I certainly don't.

 

 " elements of Britain’s productivity performance had not been this weak since the Victorian era "

 

" Javid has written to other ministers seeking suggestions for 5 per cent savings from their budgets "

 

So much for kings growth wishes already ...

That looks like a prophesy of austerity ++ to me

.. especially if you are sticking two fingers up to your largest and best market ... and all those fab deals that aid trade

 

One of the reports i scanned seemed to be indicating that £100B+ injection into infrastructure projects was needed just to stave of a number of major company 'restructurings' - err collapse and asset stripping.

Now what do we know that costs £100B and mostly benefits a few.

 

and it now seems to be 100B that simply isnt there. Pile a few more meters on that debt mountain ..

and Just pour some more of that endless supply of manure onto the magic money tree and make it work a bit harder...

 

 

We do need to remember that these are not Conservative politicians, they are self serving populists.

Expect loads of carp from Johnson about whats going to be done by year xxxx - when it will be somebody elses problem to deliver it ...

Edited February 4, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[London1971]

Boris is a disaster who can hardly string a sentence together, and can't tell lies from the truth.  I knew someone like that at school who BS'd and lied so much it seemed that he actually believed his own untruths.

 

Worst thing is there is no opposition to this walking disaster area at least for the next 5 years if not longer.

[honeybee13]

Rafael Behr has an opinion piece out today about what you're talking about, London.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/05/rebel-tories-sovereignty-parliment-boris-johnson

[tobyjugg2]

The big problem with the fallback 'rely on the rebel conservative to rein in excess' is that most prior Tory PM's would listen to the elected MP's and wouldn't dream of kicking out somene the people voted for.

 

Johnson is more than happy too - particularly as Corbyn set that low standard.

 

 

 

Imagine it at the box:

 

Corbyn to Johnson: This is a leader who has to threaten his MP's, elected by the British people, with losing the whip to progress his extreme agendas

 

(Howls of laughter and Jeers from Tory benches - utter silence from the Labour benches)

 

Johnson to Corbyn: and How is the right honorable members Labour MP deselection process going?

Will he complete it before his replacement process completes?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 5, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

and now it really begins

 

European police will be barred from cooperating with UK if Boris Johnson waters down Human Rights Act

 

The prime minister is considering tearing up the Human Rights Act and suspending the European Convention on Human Rights

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-police-eu-human-rights-act-boris-johnson-european-commission-a9318186.html

 

"The European Commission has made human rights a red line in negotiations with the UK and said any security agreement would include an “automatic termination” clause tied to the UK keeping the Human Rights Act. 

It was reported on Wednesday that the prime minister is planning to rewrite the 1998 Act and potentially even suspend the UK’s membership of the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR)"

 

"The PM’s chief advisor, Dominic Cummings, is said to be pushing for a suspension of the ECHR. He has previously called for a referendum on the UK’s membership."

 

 

 

 

.. and for the brexiters - its not the EU

"The only country in Europe not a signatory is Belarus, an authoritarian dictatorship."

 

We all want rid of hate preachers, but are you happy to give up your children's basic human rights so the British government doesn't have to do it right, and can do it to anyone You and YOURS included.

 

[tobyjugg2]

In a warning before next month’s budget, Britain’s oldest economic thinktank says the government’s plan to raise investment in infrastructure projects by about £20bn a year can have only a modest impact on the UK’s dismal productivity levels.

Johnson has pledged to invest in new transport projects and other large public works but NIESR says the positive impact on the economy will be less than 0.5% of GDP over the long run, compared with an estimated 3-4% cost of Brexit.

In a blow to the chancellor, NIESR says Sajid Javid will fall short of achieving his growth target of 2.8% per year while his new budget rules will probably be trashed by public spending at the levels promised in the election campaign. The Bank of England has already warned that Brexit will strike a blow to British productivity as higher trade barriers harm efficiency gains, while growth can only run at 1.1% on average until 2023 without driving up inflation.

 

Note:

theres that £100b (specified as over 5 years) figure again

 

Long past time the government bought out or made a deal with the private investors in the Swansea tidal lagoon project using a tiny fraction of that.

[honeybee13]

I've posted this in the NHS forum because of huge US drug firms being able to access patients' data.

 

But part way down the article, it says

'Access to NHS data is increasingly sought by researchers and global drugs companies because it is one of the largest and most centralised public organisations of its kind in the world, with unique data resources.

 

Washington has already made clear it wants unrestricted access to Britain’s 55 million health records – estimated to have a total value of £10bn a year – as part of any post-Brexit trade agreement. Leaked details of meetings between US and UK trade officials late last year showed that the acquisition of as much UK medical data as possible is a top priority for the US drugs industry.'

 

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/feb/08/fears-over-sale-anonymous-nhs-patient-data

 

 

[tobyjugg2]

Given the seemingly clear risks associated with johnsons intents and the US requirements, I think everyone should carefully consider their reasons and options for allowing the sharing of their medical data.

 

 

 

This site tells you about NHS Data sharing (in England) - the very many ways by which information from your electronic GP record is, or can be, made available to others:

http://nhsdatasharing.info/

 

Excerpt:

Just looking for information about the National Data Opt Out ("Your NHS data matters")?
Jump straight to this website: www.nationaldataoptout.info

Just looking for information about the national Summary Care Record?
Jump straight to this website: www.summarycarerecord.info

Just looking for information about the Hampshire Health Record (CHIE)?
Jump straight to this website: www.hampshirehealthrecord.info

Just looking for the opt-out form to control your GP record?
You can opt out by downloading this single form (as .doc or .pdf), and handing it in to your GP surgery.
Don't forget to set your National Data Opt Out.

 

 

 

See also

https://www.nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/about-the-nhs/sharing-your-health-records/

Edited February 9, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[Jase1982]

After watching the pharmacist on netflix everyone should be afraid to give anything to US drug companies...

[tobyjugg2]

So how do I maximally limit secondary uses of my medical records, beyond my direct medical care?

 

① Set your NDOO status to "do not allow" https://digital.nhs.uk/services/national-data-opt-out

AND

② Make sure you have a secondary uses, Type 1 (9Nu0) objection in force on your GP record - do this via your GP surgery

AND

③ Consider contacting your local hospital trust, mental health provider, or social care organisation (local council) that you use (or have used) and express "the right to object" to the dissemination of confidential information about you for secondary purposes (including to NHS Digital), where it is not legally mandated.
You have the right to object where your data might be processed in this way and the organisation concerned is relying on Article 6(1)(e) - Official Authority - as the legal basis under GDPR.

 

 

 

[tobyjugg2]

interesting how awkward it is to actually find a simple - click here to opt out ....

 

 

https://www.nhs.uk/your-nhs-data-matters/manage-your-choice/

 

 

https://www.theriversidepartnership.co.uk/website/J82167/files/2018-05-22 National Data Opt-out trifold.pdf

Edited February 9, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

and the Corbynistas being forced nearer and nearer the truth with every day of their attempts to exonerate Corbyn and his Cabal

... its reached the cabal

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/corbyn-general-election-labour-alan-simpson-seamus-milne-karie-murphy-a9324066.html

 

 

"A close friend and adviser to Jeremy Corbyn has revealed how a “corridor cabal” of his top aides sabotaged Labour’s election campaign, blaming them for the party’s catastrophic defeat.

The explosive post-mortem heaps responsibility on the key allies – communications chief Seamus Milne, chief of staff Karie Murphy and Andrew Murray, a veteran communist – for organisational chaos and for “suffocating” the leader himself.

It carries huge weight because it has been penned by leftwinger Alan Simpson, a former Socialist Campaign Group MP and flatmate of Mr Corbyn, who returned to frontline politics to advise him on sustainable economics."