Article 50 Discussion

[honeybee13]

I didn't see that, Jase, was it recently?

[honeybee13]

So it's another 5 years of Bojo, he's been confirmed as the winner.

 

Is he going to try to reunite the country now?

[tobyjugg2]

16 hours ago, Jase1982 said:

 

He already came out and confirmed john McDonnell would take over temporarily if they lost

 

 

So he will pass power on to his number one man who entirely supports his policies eh?

Maybe - but Even thats doubtful

 

Whats he actually saying? - he wont lead labour into the next election ... in 6 years .... clinging on and on and on

 

 

 

Mind you, at least Corbyn has got his Leave 'win' to fall back on ...

Independent Scotland and a  united Ireland next - both in the EU

 

Edited December 13, 2019 by tobyjugg2

[honeybee13]

From the Guardian today.

 

'Jeremy Corbyn has said he will remain in place as Labour leader while his party undertakes a “period of reflection” after suffering catastrophic election losses in its traditional heartlands.'

 

I wonder how he'll take it if the upshot is that he was the main problem...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/13/devastating-exit-poll-triggers-bitter-blame-game-within-labour

[tobyjugg2]

Labour peer Andrew Adonis tweeted: ‘I think the “period of reflection” required to assess the need for new leadership of the Labour Party should be about ten minutes.’

[honeybee13]

Good one.

[tobyjugg2]

In enabling a majority for Johnson, Corbyn has undoubtedly done more damage to the labour Party, the soon to be ex United kingdom, workers and environmental rights and protections, and the NHS than a decade of Thatcher-ism ever could.

 

Well done the loony left.

Johnson and the ERG say THANK YOU.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2019 by tobyjugg2

[honeybee13]

Jolyon Maugham just retweeted this.

 

The people’s government. Meaning the attacks on the democratic institutions are about to begin.

[brassnecked]

Probably won't HB, a Marxist will never admit that their core Marxist belief is out of step with mainstream, what is apparent is the more, the likes of Soubry and Chuka hactored the people the more angry they became, as they  had had enough of being told you are wrong, but don't worry we will waste 3 1/2 years fixing it for you.

 

People feel that Politics is something done to them rather than a process they have a full and meaningful part in.

 

A C & W singer/Actor  Hoyt Axcton who played daddy Peltzer who got his son the Mogwai  in Gremlins,  song Politicians sums it up, what's applicable to USA resonates here in that song

Getting ready for flaming for the above

 

 

[honeybee13]

Someone on the BBC has worked out that 48% of people voted for parties that backed Remain or a second referendum.

 

And now Farage is talking about starting a Reform party to campaign for proportional representation, amongst other things. I didn't see that coming.

[tobyjugg2]

Overheard tab-hanging outside the window at corbyn central.

 

 

 

Comrade 1: It cant have been jeremy - it was Brexit

 

Soon to be ex comrade 2: But our policy on Brexit was Jezzs' wasn't it

 

Comrade 1:  Of course it wasn't - we presented it to you all.

 

 

Comrade 1:  and Jezzas policy is to work together to bring the country together not to lead by dictate

 

Soon to be ex comrade 2: But Jezz ruled out a none aggression pact in certain seats with the other Parties

 

Comrade 1:  Yes but they wouldn't just step aside ... They could have

 

 

 

Comrade 1: But the people loved our policies

 

Soon to be ex comrade 2:  Apart from how little they were actually properly defined - and the none-Brexit policy loathed by Remainers and Leavers - and of course the open door instant benefits to all and every immigrant policy announced just when it seemed Jezza had a chance of being in a position to get the people a confirmatory referendum and deliver some real changes.

He did want to win didn't he?

 

Comrade 1: You are a Capitalist plant - throw her out.

 

Scuffle as life-long member thrown out on street for questioning The Leaders Policies

 

 

Comrade 1: Now where were we? Ah - it wasn't jezzaa' fault and we must insist he remains in power and persues these policies relentlessly against his will as he is a reluctant leader now musn't we?

 

(Discontented murmurings start to increase)

 

 

Comrade 1: SILENCE or you will be excommunicated.

 

(Muttering subsides)

 

Comrade 1: Good, we are agreed then.

 

[London1971]

Blair MK2 is the only way Labour ever wins again.  No matter how much the momentum lefties screech about it, it's just how it is.

 

Besides, with such a huge majority Johnson is no longer in hock to the ERG or DUP, so the chances of a softer Brexit are higher.

[brassnecked]

A proper EEA/EFTA would be good as a starting point.NO  don't think anyone did, PR might have given Farage an MP

[Maharg1]

I did try telling you but you insisted you knew better - whose got the last laugh now :)

[London1971]

Crazy to say it now, but EEA /EFTA is way more likely now than if there would have been a hung parliament.

[cjcregg]

12 hours ago, Maharg1 said:

I did try telling you but you insisted you knew better - whose got the last laugh now

 

As I recall the only thing you tried telling us was based on a quote that you selectively edited by Lord James of Blackheath. You misrepresented it as a statement of fact when it was actually a question which was laughed at by his peers in the House of Lords.  We told you it was garbage, you asked us to prove it and we did.

 

Remember?

Edited December 14, 2019 by cjcregg

[Maharg1]

You proved nothing.  All you continually harped on about was how great Commie Corbyn and the Labour party is and how

you are going to remain in the EU.

Read back through at what you said, you sound just like the losing party did with all it's rubbish and lies in a manifesto that

they had no intention or the funds to every adhering to. They would have done exactly like your mate Gordon Brown did, bankrupt the country

and achieve nothing as they always do.

 

Gang up on me, I don't care, because whatever way you try to bend it, the Conservative party won, Brexit won and I won.

 

[honeybee13]

Even Boris Johnson is trying to avoid the 'You lost, get over it' mentality. It isn't the way to go if the country's divisions are going to be healed.

[brassnecked]

Especially as there have been toys out of pram protests by Momentum and other left wing supporters against Johnson, what do they want re-run the election  next week and see if Corbyn wins second time around?  the FPTP electoral system is fatally flawed SNP got 48 seats on 3.9% of the total votes cast in UK on 2.7% the Greens got 1 seat Tories had 29.3% of the vote in a turnout of 67.3%  So in reality the representation is skewed.

[unclebulgaria67]

Labour now need to go back to sensible moderate slightly left of centre politics.  The experiment with Momentum/Corbyn is over, as British electorate would never vote them into Government. 

 

I am hoping that Kier Starmer takes over as leader and takes action to remove the experimental side of Labour, who are not in tune with the electorate. 

 

Labour losing heartland seats was not only about Brexit, it was a rejection of a fantasy Socialist manifesto the country could not afford and a rejection of Corbyn who was not trusted.

 

 

[fletch70]

2 hours ago, Maharg1 said:

You proved nothing.  All you continually harped on about was how great Commie Corbyn and the Labour party is and how

you are going to remain in the EU.

Read back through at what you said, you sound just like the losing party did with all it's rubbish and lies in a manifesto that

they had no intention or the funds to every adhering to. They would have done exactly like your mate Gordon Brown did, bankrupt the country

and achieve nothing as they always do.

 

Gang up on me, I don't care, because whatever way you try to bend it, the Conservative party won, Brexit won and I won.

 

The proof of the pudding as they say will be in the eating. As far as I saw Labour did have a costed manifesto but they failed because they had the wrong leader. I say that as someone who believes in nationalisation, taxing the rich more and providing a real living wage with real living hours. 
 

Of course we will now have to wait 12 months to see what sort of trade deal we get, if we don’t get one then Johnson will be unable to hit his spending promises which don’t even undo the cuts since 2010. So yes maybe the Tories won and we are leaving and maybe you got what you wanted , but I think if you have the ability to reflect in 5 years time you will regret it. 

[Maharg1]

Ok, if I'm still alive in 5 years time I promise to come back then and we will see just what has happened.

 

As far as the cuts, they were all required because Gordon Brown and Tony Blair bankrupted the country.

 

Labour has said this time that it will borrow and when asked on tv what happens when all that borrowed money is spent,

Corbyn said live on tv "borrow some more".

 

“The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”― Margaret Thatcher

 

[Jase1982]

25 minutes ago, Maharg1 said:

 

 

As far as the cuts, they were all required because Gordon Brown and Tony Blair bankrupted the country.

 

 

How many more times!!!  It was a global recession!!  Seriously, I feel like I'm in a cuckoo clock.  Answer honestly, surely if the country had been bankrupted the price of food would have shot up and we wouldn't have been able to draw any money out from a cash point?  These things are what I would expect if we had gone under as a country.

[Jase1982]

In terms of the result, in hindsight, I think that the manifesto possibly went too far.  I think nationalisation of utilities, railways and royal mail is a good thing due to the fact privatisation sucks money out of the system, and things end up being paid for several times over.

 

I'm not sure nationalisation of BT was such a good thing.  Our network is pretty rubbish and leaving infrastructure projects to private companies is incoherent and inefficient, but that might have been a step too far.

 

I disagree it's all Corbyn's fault because the Tory's campaigned on a very simple message - "get brexit done".  In effect, their manifesto was very basic, and labour haemorrhaged leave voting labour voters so desperately tired of the process.  There was a hell of a lot of anti Corbyn propaganda from the word go.

 

I said after the referendum that the Tory's would be screwed because they wouldn't be able to deliver on any of the promises made, and for a long time it looked like that would be the case.  However, I never took into consideration the effect of Boris Johnson would have because he's a very good salesman... I would bet my life on us having a deal by the end of next year, and whatever we're left with will be championed as a massive success... I'm sick of it all if I'm honest.  I've had people banging on about remainers can all shit up now, they lost etc, as if they'd won the lottery.  But when I look at it, it was all still based on nonsense and misinformation, so I think we've all lost.

 

We're now left with a Tory government that has a huge majority so that they can push through anything they like.  Where's the democracy there?  Leavers wanted more democracy, but Johnson having played a blinder, has secured less democracy and conviced them they're all winners.  Coupled with their promise to "renegotiate the relationship between parliament and the courts" I'm concerned all these leave voters aren't really thinking clearly.  I've also said all along that brexit was about the elite in our country having more overall control, and now they have it.  They've even convinced working class labour voters that it's in their interest.  How did this happen?

[honeybee13]

Jase, I agree about the elite taking control, not that the Tories think they're the elite. According to them the eilite are a group I possibly don't understand, who are against what the Tories are doing.

 

I think we should be worried about the courts, parliament [he already prorogued it once and Bercow has gone], Channel4, the BBC and others.