Article 50 Discussion

[tobyjugg2]

"Keen is now addressing the issue of “remedy” (ie, what might happen if the court rules against the government).

 

He says he contends that a determination from the court that prorogation was unlawful would suffice.

He says it should then be up to the government and parliament to decide how to respond; ie, it would not be for the court to decide what should happen next.

 

A judge asks how parliament can respond if it is not sitting."

 

 

LOL LOL LOL

 

Judge to criminal:

You have been found guilty of fraud.

 

Criminal.

Yeah,  but its up to me what I do about it.

I'll let you know what suites me, when it suites me, if it suites me.

Bye.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Maharg1]

tobyjugg2

Leave Lies said 5 million Turks would be coming to Brotain and we can't do anything about it

No they didn't, typical left wing lies, they said 'COULD' which is very different.

 

Edited September 23, 2019 by Maharg1

[tobyjugg2]

That particular LEAVE LIE is still on the Voteleave site now. - in a big graphic

 

QUOTE:

'Turkey IS one of 5 new countries joining the EU'

 

No ifs buts or maybes.

 

 

 

Its also on the record that Penny Mordaunt on the Andrew Marr show (as Leaves PROJECT FEAR part of the LEAVE LIES campaign) claimed that Turkey was joining and we couldn't do anything about it.

At least 2 lies in one go from her there.

* They weren't, and aren't joining any time soon

* PLUS As an existing member, we have a veto on new members

 

Even the daily mail reported that.

 

so stop spouting Leave Lies

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 23, 2019 by tobyjugg2

[honeybee13]

Can we leave out value judgements like 'lies' please, or posts will have to be edited. It would be good to stick with facts.

[Maharg1]

I'm just following the lead so what's good for the goose etc.

[honeybee13]

This isn't how we do things, Maharg. Two wrongs don't make a right and so on. You've both had your say, let's all leave out the judgemental language please.

[tobyjugg2]

I supported my statement even if I didn't want to link the Leave site  - but I can if thats what it takes

http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/why_vote_leave.html

 

http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/why_vote_leave.html#collapseTwo

 

NOTE: The clear statements claiming that those WILL happen.

 

 

 

 

Even the daily mail reported Mordaunts   - unequivocally midleading - not FUZZY  interpretations

again I didn't link it, not wishing to promote [edited] but here:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3603212/Staying-EU-expose-Britain-terrorists-gangsters-12-7m-guns-Turkey-join-claims-defence-minister-Penny-Mordaunt-campaign-accuses-stoking-prejudice.html

 

So I assume you were talking to the Leaver - who did not support their statement at all.

 

 

I even referenced the Leave promoting mail link rather than a Guardian one.

 

[tobyjugg2]

I think the most offensive language of all is NOT calling lies what they are.

It does NOTHING other than excuse and promote them.

Edited September 23, 2019 by tobyjugg2

[Maharg1]

Your timing is wrong, Turkey was joining up until March this year when the European Parliament voted in favour of suspending the negotiation and Turkeys bid to join the EU.

 

So at the time those things were said, Turkey was still joining the EU.  Negotiations haven't been permanently ended so Turkey could still join at some later time if it meets the EU guidelines.

[tobyjugg2]

 

6 minutes ago, Maharg1 said:

Turkey was joining up until March this year when the European Parliament voted in favour of suspending the negotiation and Turkeys bid to join the EU.

 

 

They were negotiating, with Turkey raising those questions as part of the refugee deal negotiations.

 

Turkey was NOT 'joining'

They were nowhere near the requirements for membership, and are even less so now.

 

 

and even if your claim were true (it isn't)

- That Leave site is still claiming it now, three years later and even further from anything resembling 'truth'

 

and we always had a VETO

Edited September 23, 2019 by tobyjugg2

[Maharg1]

 Turkey applied to join the EU in 1987 and those points were made after they applied and before the application was denied. So they are not lies.

Edited September 23, 2019 by Maharg1

[Jase1982]

Why does anyone even care about Turkey joining the eu, or any other country for that matter.  Immigration is already greater from non eu countries, so a lot of these people have been able to move here legally for years anyway.  Who do they think sells them their kebab? 

[Maharg1]

Because someone brought it up wanting to score points and be able to use the 'not true' word.  That attempt has now been show to be thwarted.

[tobyjugg2]

 

27 minutes ago, Maharg1 said:

 Turkey applied to join the EU in 1987 and those points were made after they applied and before the application was denied. So they are not lies.

 

Anyone can apply

Means little and  certainly not that they will get it.

 

Even you could apply to join the Labour party - and have a better chance of success than Turkey would.

 

 

 

The application negotiations included requirements for Turkey to move toward being a far more democratic state. That wasn't going to happen - but the EU used the negotiations as leverage to try to nudge Turkey in a more democratic direction and in the refugee negotiations.

If Turkey had moved significantly - membership would have become somewhat more likely - but syill a long way off.

(It was reported in the mail in a very twisted way when they poo poo'd Cameron telling you that)

- yet here we are 3 years later with no signs of Turkey becoming a member

 

Just look at the REAL documentation. It is available - the EU is as open as it can be unlike May or Johnson

 

 

They were nowhere near the requirements

Edited September 23, 2019 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

so @Maharg1

 

Why is non EU immigration increasing under the Tories?

[tobyjugg2]

Cameron: Turkey on course to join EU ‘in year 3000’

 

https://www.business-reporter.co.uk/2016/05/23/cameron-turkey-course-join-eu-year-3000/

 

 

" The Prime Minister attacked Penny Mordaunt's claims that Britain had no veto over Turkish accession to the 28-member bloc as "misleading" and "absolutely wrong". "

 

" Mr Cameron added: “It is not remotely on the cards that Turkey is going to join the EU any time soon. They applied in 1987. At the current rate of progress they will probably get round to joining in about the year 3000 according to the latest forecasts.” "

 

 

This is better

https://fullfact.org/europe/turkey-likely-join-eu/

Edited September 23, 2019 by tobyjugg2

[Maharg1]

What! join a party where the leader refuses to condemn the IRA and actually invited a couple of them to parliament after the Brighton bombing.

A leader that has had meetings with so many terrorist groups and accepted money from Iran for appearing on Iranian state television more than once.

A leader that has attended a wreath laying service to leaders of the Black September terror group.

A leader that calls the terrorist groups of Hamas and Hezbollah his friends

A leader that is head of an anti-Semitic party and has signed his name to the Cairo Declaration along with Communist Party members accusing Israel of genocide and calling for a boycott of Israel and backing armed resistance to the Jewish state.

 

You can have a go at islamophobia now if you want but at least the MP that posted and the few that seemed to support or joke on his comments were suspended.  How many of the antisimitic Labour members have been suspended.

 

[Maharg1]

16 minutes ago, tobyjugg2 said:

Cameron: Turkey on course to join EU ‘in year 3000’

 

https://www.business-reporter.co.uk/2016/05/23/cameron-turkey-course-join-eu-year-3000/

 

 

" The Prime Minister attacked Penny Mordaunt's claims that Britain had no veto over Turkish accession to the 28-member bloc as "misleading" and "absolutely wrong". "

 

" Mr Cameron added: “It is not remotely on the cards that Turkey is going to join the EU any time soon. They applied in 1987. At the current rate of progress they will probably get round to joining in about the year 3000 according to the latest forecasts.” "

None of that makes any difference to the fact that the application was still alive when those claims were made.

[Jase1982]

3 minutes ago, Maharg1 said:

What! join a party where the leader refuses to condemn the IRA and actually invited a couple of them to parliament after the Brighton bombing.

A leader that has had meetings with so many terrorist groups and accepted money from Iran for appearing on Iranian state television more than once.

A leader that has attended a wreath laying service to leaders of the Black September terror group.

A leader that calls the terrorist groups of Hamas and Hezbollah his friends

A leader that is head of an anti-Semitic party and has signed his name to the Cairo Declaration along with Communist Party members accusing Israel of genocide and calling for a boycott of Israel and backing armed resistance to the Jewish state.

 

You can have a go at islamophobia now if you want but at least the MP that posted and the few that seemed to support or joke on his comments were suspended.  How many of the antisimitic Labour members have been suspended.

 

 

I'm starting to think you're working for some dodgy agency.  Are you one of those agents employed to spread fake news?

[Maharg1]

It's not fake news, he has admitted it and even tried to apologise, too late for that now.

You can check back on the Guardian as well as the Mirror who all report it or are you saying the Labour supporting media print fake news.

[tobyjugg2]

@Maharg1

 

LOL

Of course its relevant, especially the full facts link. Try reading just the wikipedia page.

Turkish Membership was never even remotely on the cards.

 

 

and

I really do find it hard to take a seemingly clear right wing hard Brexiters condemnation of any form of racism/xenophopia seriously.

 

 

 

So given your last post, what do you think about the UK supplying Saudi Arabia with arms, munitions and British support staff to run bombing raids in Yemen?

Like the bombings of school buses and market places?

 

 

Edited September 23, 2019 by tobyjugg2

[Maharg1]

I think exactly the same as you do and what makes you assume I am a Brexiteer.

[tobyjugg2]

4 minutes ago, Maharg1 said:

I think exactly the same as you do

 

Glad to see we've convinced you and I for one welcome another vote for Remain

another vote against Johnson and Cameron and the ERG

and another vote against Corbyn

Edited September 23, 2019 by tobyjugg2

[Maharg1]

You're not getting it are you, watch my lips

At the time that was said, Turkey was still in the process of application, it was after they applied and before they were denied.  It matters not if they were going to join in million years, the application was live.

[Maharg1]

You're obviously one of those that repeats the nonsense about spending £350 million on the NHS as said on the bus which it never did.