Article 50 Discussion

[honeybee13]

I agree, I don't know why they're thinking of doing that apart from to differentiate themselves from other parties. Revoking without a referendum could cause the same outrage as a no deal crash out.

[brassnecked]

Lib dems reckon as they have picked up some MPs from other parties, they are OK to do as they wish, after all they will say its for our own good like a nanny, as the people aren't capable of seeing the beauty of the Grand Project.

 

ther will be civil disorder sadly if they did

[honeybee13]

You could be right, it would be better to hold a referendum and then decide.

[fletch70]

56 minutes ago, brassnecked said:

Lib dems reckon as they have picked up some MPs from other parties, they are OK to do as they wish, after all they will say its for our own good like a nanny, as the people aren't capable of seeing the beauty of the Grand Project.

 

ther will be civil disorder sadly if they did

I think we need to recognise that in many areas the people do need to be told what is in their best interests. 

 

Anyway, look at it this way, if the Lib Dems did win the election on that manifesto promise they would have the right to do it. I do think they have no chance of winning, there is still enough partisan alignment to stop that (enough people who always vote the same way) . There simply are not enough floating voters to give that sort of outcome.  The problem is, no one has won an election on a specific type of deal.

 

There will be some civil disorder whatever happens, the only problem is, if we leave it will in general be polite people protesting, if we stay it will be thugs rioting and they will attract more disorder. (I may be wrong but as I have said, the only trouble I have seen on remain/second referendum marches has been against us.   

[barns66]

The only civil disorder there will be i what the media whips up,they have started  already by the drip.drip headlines about how many migrants are trying to get into the Country.

[tobyjugg2]

13 hours ago, honeybee13 said:

I agree, I don't know why they're thinking of doing that apart from to differentiate themselves from other parties. Revoking without a referendum could cause the same outrage as a no deal crash out.

 

 

Yes, and although the Johnson/ERG types are trying to remove peoples choices, that the libdems should do that is not right, however right the actual cause is.

 

I'd still vote for them though.

We need to get off this cliff edge which lies have brought us to whatever the cost and get ALL the liars out of parliament ...

 

Start with the pathological self serving liar Johnson and Tossus and follow quickly with Corbyn.

Then start on the lesser demons. Then a cleaner government can start prosecuting.

 

It will require honesty and openness which these politicians always talk about but NEVER implement.

 

 

 

 

 

[tobyjugg2]

and as Johnson the Liar claims they are near to an EU deal ..

... and the EU says Johnson has brought nowt

 

Rabb the Reneger says:

" So this isn’t about whether enough technical content has been provided.

It is about whether there’s the political will on the EU’s side to do a deal which I still believe would be in both sides’ interests."

 

Rabb Translated:

Its nowt to do with us doing nowt, 

if the EU wanted to give us everything we want for nothing there's no law of physics preventing that.

 

(just EU and international law - but don't mention that)

 

 

 

My current favourite 'most appropriate'  child abusing ('that isnt what I meant to do') Johnson 'The Skulk' image:

 

Would you put the fate of your children in his hands?

 

 

Edited September 16, 2019 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

Oh and rumours are that Johnsons plan is to tie up the Benn Bill (requiring he ask for an extension if there is no deal agreed) in court challenges until we crash out.

 

[Maharg1]

7 hours ago, tobyjugg2 said:

 

 

…. get ALL the liars out of parliament ...

 

You can't chuck all the Labour Party out of the Commons.

 

 

 

 

 

[Jase1982]

The Prime Minister of Luxembourg has just held a press conference without boris Johnson,  and all that was in his place was an empty podium and a UK flag.

 

We are absolute laughing stocks... the Luxembourg prime minister didn't mince his words either...

[honeybee13]

Their PM let rip, didn't he? I thought our politicians were used to being heckled from time to time.

 

ETA: Who's the big girl's blouse now?

[brassnecked]

Liars in all Parties. remove the Parties?

[tobyjugg2]

3 hours ago, Jase1982 said:

The Prime Minister of Luxembourg has just held a press conference without boris Johnson,  and all that was in his place was an empty podium and a UK flag.

 

We are absolute laughing stocks... the Luxembourg prime minister didn't mince his words either...

 

Rather stupid calling people blind and lying about them and then expectorating (sic)  those same people to pull your ass out of the fire.

Of course, his sycophants will claim he's being smart antagonising everyone so they won't give an extension.

Nope - Johnsons just a complete arse.

 

LOL - Sneaking out the back door ...

Its becoming something of a Brexiter tradition isn't it?

 

Mind you even that would be better than the cretinous loser  Brexiter candidate at Peterborough making childish hand signals behind the winning candidate.

... apart from the likelihood that Johnson will probably just gutlessly wait until he's relatively safe back in Westminster before he blusters.

 

 

[fletch70]

3 hours ago, Maharg1 said:

 

Maharg

 

That is not what TobyJugg said is it?

 

I also take exception by your completely unjustified comment suggesting  that all the Labour Party are liars.

 

We know for a fact that Johnson and most of his cabinet are liars - Was in Jeremy *unt who said Turkey was about to join the EU - when they are not even in the council of Europe FFS 

 

Johnson and his claims about how disastrous leaving the EU would be and now is diving headlong into that abyss 

 

Yes I am annoyed Corbyn has fudged the EU debate,sitting on the fence  and not properly endorsing the remain faction. If he had we may never have been n this mess in the first place however, his policies on nationalising the utilities and transport are long overdue - why is it cheaper to travel 100 miles to London than 20 miles from Birmingham to Hinckley? 

 

Why have we turned education into a commodity and run under quasi private market influences meaning that some education institutions are given a higher value than others- a degree should be the same from whatever university it comes from - it is not 

 

Anyway I digress

[tobyjugg2]

That one wasn't worth rising to the bait fletch.

 

Standard Brexiter trolling.

No content. Not original. Not interesting.

 

 

oh - and the Turkey lies are still on the voteleave web page today alongside their pals - some other Leave Lies

[BazzaS]

2 hours ago, fletch70 said:

 

 

 

2 hours ago, fletch70 said:

Why have we turned education into a commodity and run under quasi private market influences meaning that some education institutions are given a higher value than others- a degree should be the same from whatever university it comes from - it is not 

 

 

 

I think you’ll find not all universities being considered equal predates any privitisation.

 

40 years ago a degree from Oxbridge was seen as more desirable than a degree of the same classification, in the same subject, from a non “red brick”. Nothing to do with privitisation, plenty to do with perception of quality (even if it is perception rather than fact).

[fletch70]

8 hours ago, BazzaS said:

 

 

 

I think you’ll find not all universities being considered equal predates any privitisation.

 

40 years ago a degree from Oxbridge was seen as more desirable than a degree of the same classification, in the same subject, from a non “red brick”. Nothing to do with privitisation, plenty to do with perception of quality (even if it is perception rather than fact).

While I take your point the differentiation has become even more marked over recent years. What with OxBridge, the Russel Group , pre and post 1992 universities. The way they rely on league tables and just what factors make up those league tables has altered the way HE is tiered. It has become so bad , at least one university has opted out. They focus on mature students and thus don’t score highly on many of the matrices. 

 

So so perception is driven by league tables which is a bi product of the quasi privatisation. 

 

The terms ancient , red brick, plate glass all seem rather obsolete these days. 

[Jase1982]

I'm starting to feel really sorry for the poor people that seem to have taken what happened yesterday and sided with Boris Johnson.  It seems as though his political stunt has drawn them in and he now (to them) looks as though he's being tough and standing up to these horrible EU bullies.  So that when it all falls flat in October Downing Street can continue to blame the EU.

 

Still people are taking in the lies and gamesmanship of Boris Johnson.

[tobyjugg2]

LOL

 

The incredible bulk, Bane of small schoolchildren throughout the kingdom

 

.. becomes the incredible sulk, owned and demonstrated a liar by Ireland

 

... who in turn becomes the incredible yellow skulk, who's:

day just got a whole lot worse when he was completely owned by about 50 unthreatening protesters

- this was Luxembourg, where crime waves are measured in the number of people not paying parking fines

 

Faced with a handful of people shouting: “We don’t like you very much,” the Incredible Bulk morphed from green to yellow and fled sobbing.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/16/incredible-sulk-morphs-from-green-to-yellow-as-he-is-bested-by-bettel

[tobyjugg2]

Some interesting points coming out in the prorogation case.

 

 

It would appear that Johnsons main point is that due to the seperation of parliament and the Judiciary, Johnson is trying to claim that the courts have no right to interfere with anything 'political'

 

Effectively claiming that anything that might have a political element (aka anything) is outside the jurisdiction of the courts!!!

.. ergo what he is really saying that as a ministers position  and duties are political

- they are above and beyond the law.

 

 

I think this says it best

" “upholding a constitution governed by laws not by the passing whims of men”

- O’Neill

 

[fletch70]

I was talking to two friends today who are passionate remainders. Not blind remainders but ones who realise however flawed the EU is, we are better in than out. The point was discussed, is Johnson just going to delay the recall of Parliament so he has no time to put anything to them and we just crash out. We think this, or some similar stunt is a very real possibility 

[Jase1982]

I'd like to see a definition of what they deem to be 'political'.  Surely parliament should be subject to the same laws we are, especially considering they make them on our behalf.

 

The way I see this is that it's the modern way of dealing with a constitutional crisis.  Half a century ago the country endured a civil war, and a lot of the rhetoric is very similar.  He should count himself lucky he hasn't lost his head.

[tobyjugg2]

 

 

Johnsons cronies  are even touting the possibility of immediately proroguing parliament again if they are defeated and ordered to recall parliament

as well as suggesting they will ask for an extension then refuse it.

 

They started with lies tricks and deceit

... they are consistent if nothing else

 

[tobyjugg2]

I would have said that the courts are bound (sic) to hold Johnson to account, but they abdicated quickly in the abuse of office case.

 

Just imagine this scenario:

 

Court: Abuse of office is a matter for Parliament

Parliament: We want to raise the issue of you and your ministers' abuses of office

PM: Parliament is prorogued until further notice.

 

 

Edited September 18, 2019 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

Leave Lies said 5 million Turks would be coming to Brotain and we can't do anything about it

 

They Lied - its just Turkish Erdoganesque type 'democracy' (sic) thats coming here