Article 50 Discussion

[honeybee13]

I thought a vote of no confidence that the government lost could lead to an election.

[honeybee13]

This is from the Beeb.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46890481

[brassnecked]

Would be very close to the wire for any election, clock could still run out  A directly elected PM is an option with the Queen still head of State, that is part of The Harrogate Agenda.

[honeybee13]

I don't know about the Harrogate agenda, BN. Do you have a link please?

 

 

[brassnecked]

Yes its a set of proposals to fix the system, much of it would be unpalatable to Party Politicians as it would make it easier for the people to get rid of them.  For some interesting takes on Brexit and some correct research you could try

http://eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=87317#disqus_thread

 

That blog looks at Brexit as a process and suggested least harmful ways of exiting recognising that it will take many years to Leave the EU.

 

http://harrogateagenda.org.uk/

[fletch70]

24 minutes ago, Jase1982 said:

Nothing triggers an election though.. only the PM can call an early election.  That's what's wrong with our democracy.  We vote for a party but all the power resides in number ten... they say vote for the party, not the person but that's nonsense.

 

Cant see anything changing dramatically until the numbers do.

Actually with the fixed term parliament Act the PM can not call an early election. They can ask the house to agree it and have to have a majority (I think it’s something like 2/3rds). A vote of no confidence if won then gives the PM two weeks to win another or an election is called. 

 

But article 50 could still be revoked by parliament without it being a vote of no confidence 

[brassnecked]

By what process if Johnson Prorogues parliament?

[honeybee13]

That's a good point.

[fletch70]

 It the Harrogate agenda is just that. An agenda, a policy with no standing in law.

 

personally I see no harm in a federal uk , it works in Germany and to some extent the US. 

[fletch70]

4 minutes ago, brassnecked said:

By what process if Johnson Prorogues parliament?

Constitutional unrest and who knows. If he can do it for that what else could he do it for. Much divided opinion on if it’s even possible 

[Jase1982]

8 minutes ago, fletch70 said:

Actually with the fixed term parliament Act the PM can not call an early election. They can ask the house to agree it and have to have a majority (I think it’s something like 2/3rds). A vote of no confidence if won then gives the PM two weeks to win another or an election is called. 

 

But article 50 could still be revoked by parliament without it being a vote of no confidence 

But that would still be the same as the PM calling it.  He wouldn't call it unless he was certain his party supported him, and even then they'd all be whipped to vote for it.  And the majority of MPs would obviously vote for it... so it's all just smoke and mirrors, the PM is still the overriding force in our democracy.  We're where we are because May chose to do it her way and only her way.

[brassnecked]

MayBot, Nick Timothy and the Lancaster House speech made No Deal almost inevitable, whilst the numties in Parliament went on proposing impossibilities voting on them whilst misunderstanding the whoile Article 50 process.

[fletch70]

We are here because of an ill thought out and corrupt referendum called by Cameron. 

 

As for for trying to muster the majority for the fixed term parliament might be difficult with many MPs worried about their seats. I say might because nothing is certain in politics. 

 

Maybe Democracy or the version we have is over rated but sadly the only other option put to us was flawed. Personally I like the German system as it is a compromise on letting every loon into the House but providing decent representation. 

 

Pure PR is difficult to have a stable government. Single party Governments just do not get a majority of the votes 

[fletch70]

Come the glorious day you will all be answering to fletch with the likes of Johnson and Walter shipped off to somewhere that wants them. (Bottom of the sea?)

[honeybee13]

Which glorious day is that, fletch?

[fletch70]

18 minutes ago, honeybee13 said:

Which glorious day is that, fletch?

The rate we are going 30th October. First act, rescind A50 

Edited August 2, 2019 by fletch70

[honeybee13]

I may have misunderstood, I thought it might be the day we answer to fletch.

 

When I'm in charge I have a list of things to ban like waspy scooters and jetskis.

[brassnecked]

Its Revoke fletch and by what mechanism will they force a Revocation?  Of course Johnson could bottle it and revoke, but the Beadle won't let him.

[fletch70]

I’ll give you that but yes it’s the day I lead the revolution. Comrade Karl Vladimir Fletch 

[fletch70]

2 minutes ago, brassnecked said:

Its Revoke fletch and by what mechanism will they force a Revocation?  Of course Johnson could bottle it and revoke, but the Beadle won't let him.

My bad . I’m tired, it’s all this revolutionary plotting don’t you know. 

As leader of the UK I would revoke A50 

 

you have to let me dream 

[tobyjugg2]

Well here comes all the deregulation which will ensure there is no possibility whatsoever of close ties with the EU single market, and no hope for equivalent financial access for UK finance - whatever there will be left of it.

 

- the EU is already clearing up loose ends to prevent Singapore England from trashing their economy with another collapse - they have already withdrawn some types of access for Singapore and others

 

https://news.cgtn.com/news/2019-07-30/EU-signals-tighter-financial-market-access-after-Brexit-IK4OoikteE/index.html

 

https://www.stocksharksnews.com/2019/07/30/eu-to-strip-canada-brazil-singapore-of-market-access-rights-ft/

 

 

The UK steps up its deregulation plans - despite claims that wouldn't happen ..

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/01/liz-trusss-plan-of-tax-free-zones-condemned-by-labour

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/04/liz-truss-trade-deal-food-safety-deregulation

 

 

 

 

and with the UK taxpayer guaranteeing to pay for the private sectors profits:- and mostly foreign owned at that

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jul/23/new-uk-nuclear-plants-government-cost

 

 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2019 by tobyjugg2

[London1971]

Taking back Control ! 

[honeybee13]

The Guardian has an interview with an ex-US treasury secretary who thinks the UK is desperate for a trade deal and likely to be walked all over.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/06/brexit-clinton-treasury-secretary-larry-summers-dismisses-desperate-uk-hopes-of-us-trade-deal

[London1971]

Also lets not forget that the US will tell us to F O if we do anything to harm the Good Friday Agreement.

[hightail]

3 minutes ago, honeybee13 said:

The Guardian has an interview with an ex-US treasury secretary who thinks the UK is desperate for a trade deal and likely to be walked all over.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/06/brexit-clinton-treasury-secretary-larry-summers-dismisses-desperate-uk-hopes-of-us-trade-deal

How could anyone see it otherwise.  We may have punched above our weight in the past but we are about to become a tiny country sitting alone in a big world.