Article 50 Discussion

[WarrenBuffet]

That is just too much of a coincidence tobyjugg2.

[tobyjugg2]

That is just too much of a coincidence tobyjugg2.

 

 

He is also younger than me - although no one would believe it on sight.

 

 

UKIP is of course supporting Goldsmith.

[tobyjugg2]

Spot the difference

 

oops piccies didnt show

 

 

 

 

Answer: Sutch hasn't got a pint in his hand and his mouth isn't open as wide.

 

Perhaps Farage will get a peerage

Lord Psartist of Takethe

[tobyjugg2]

So whats the bets for the Richmond byelection?

Touted by some (very weakly in my opinion) as a Brexit byelection and a test of support for May generally

 

I'm going for the favourite Goldsmith - and hope to be wrong.

 

In his favour

* He's the sitting tenant

* He 'resigned' from the Tory party over Heathrow which the Richmond folk are massively opposed too

* Despite the above he's still clearly a Tory in a Tory stronghold

 

* He is clearly and actively opposed to the Heathrow expansion that has the Richmond'ers so fired up - *possibly* (depends on his real Tory loyalties - the Tories aen't running against him) the strongest in this area of all the contenders. (see detriment/modifiers below)

 

* Being a richboy is no issue in Richmomd - quite the opposite

 

* He is apparently well liked and 'trusted' there

 

* Planes constantly flying a few hundred feet over your house is far more important (whether it costs £80M or £80k) than the wishy washy decline of Brexit issues which will hit Banks. major business and the poor worst, and which many Richmonders undoubtedly will be far more buffered from than most. (but see modifiers/detriment below).

 

 

Probably to his detriment

* Would a 'still Tory' Goldsmith win, (temporarily) resigned from the Tory party or not, send the right message to May re Heathrow?

 

* He is clearly pro Brexit in a very well educated area which is 70%+ remain.

 

*House prices in Richmond have FALLEN around an average 12% in Richmond since the Brexit vote - so could clearly put at the door of Brexit rather than a Heathrow expansion issue.

Significant as the average price for a flat was a cool half million - you could now apparently get one for a paltry 400k

 

Is a Tory boy, (temporarily) resigned or not the right person to drive a fight against Mays Heathrow expansion?

 

 

 

Unclear potential modifiers

* These people are educated and aware - May is now 'officially' pro Heathrow expansion, and many might see Goldsmiths 'resignation' from the Tory party as a temporary ploy and he's still really a good Tory boy at heart and will tow the party line once a very desirable 'Tory' win here is achieved.

Will Richmond voters see the resignation as a ploy for votes despite his personal opposition to the Heathrow expansion?

 

*All the major candidates are anti-Heathrow, and a plane flying a few hundred feet over your house is far more important than the wishy washy decline of Brexit issues which will hit Banks and poor worst, and which many Richmonders undoubtedly will be far more buffered from than most.

 

Who is the best candidate for anti Heathrow effectiveness?

and will Brexit clearly be a major issue in the voting (whatever is claimed afterward)

[king12345]

So whats the bets for the Richmond byelection?

Touted by some (very weakly in my opinion) as a Brexit byelection and a test of support for May generally

 

I'm going for the favourite Goldsmith - and hope to be wrong.

 

In his favour

* He's the sitting tenant

* He 'resigned' from the Tory party over Heathrow which the Richmond folk are massively opposed too

* Despite the above he's still clearly a Tory in a Tory stronghold

 

* He is clearly and actively opposed to the Heathrow expansion that has the Richmond'ers so fired up - *possibly* (depends on his real Tory loyalties - the Tories aen't running against him) the strongest in this area of all the contenders. (see detriment/modifiers below)

 

* Being a richboy is no issue in Richmomd - quite the opposite

 

* He is apparently well liked and 'trusted' there

 

* Planes constantly flying a few hundred feet over your house is far more important (whether it costs £80M or £80k) than the wishy washy decline of Brexit issues which will hit Banks. major business and the poor worst, and which many Richmonders undoubtedly will be far more buffered from than most. (but see modifiers/detriment below).

 

 

Probably to his detriment

* Would a 'still Tory' Goldsmith win, (temporarily) resigned from the Tory party or not, send the right message to May re Heathrow?

 

* He is clearly pro Brexit in a very well educated area which is 70%+ remain.

 

*House prices in Richmond have FALLEN around an average 12% in Richmond since the Brexit vote - so could clearly put at the door of Brexit rather than a Heathrow expansion issue.

Significant as the average price for a flat was a cool half million - you could now apparently get one for a paltry 400k

 

Is a Tory boy, (temporarily) resigned or not the right person to drive a fight against Mays Heathrow expansion?

 

 

 

Unclear potential modifiers

* These people are educated and aware - May is now 'officially' pro Heathrow expansion, and many might see Goldsmiths 'resignation' from the Tory party as a temporary ploy and he's still really a good Tory boy at heart and will tow the party line once a very desirable 'Tory' win here is achieved.

Will Richmond voters see the resignation as a ploy for votes despite his personal opposition to the Heathrow expansion?

 

*All the major candidates are anti-Heathrow, and a plane flying a few hundred feet over your house is far more important than the wishy washy decline of Brexit issues which will hit Banks and poor worst, and which many Richmonders undoubtedly will be far more buffered from than most.

 

Who is the best candidate for anti Heathrow effectiveness?

and will Brexit clearly be a major issue in the voting (whatever is claimed afterward)

 

The Heathrow expansion argument is the same as brexit referendum.

The people opposed to the expansion forced an independent review and proposed some (extravagant) projects.

The same committee reached the conclusion that Heathrow expansion is cheaper, more effective, quicker and would affect fewer people than other projects.

Now the same people who appointed this committee are appealing its decision (???)

Same as brexit: a pointless consultation which results bears no meaning for the elite unofficially in charge of UK.

[tobyjugg2]

a pointless consultation which results bears no meaning for the elite unofficially in charge of UK.

So who are the elite going to unofficially arrange to win?

 

I cant find Davids' (Icke) report on what the alien lizards have whispered in his ear.

( those forked tongues really do reach the parts cotton buds just cant reach)

 

Now if anyone other than Goldsmith wins, or its close, that will be fun.

[unclebulgaria67]

Aliens are in control, but dangerous to mention them here, as they have long claws.

[tobyjugg2]

Aliens are in control, but dangerous to mention them here, as they have long claws.

 

They have Santa!!!

Rise up everyone and save Santa from the aliens

 

... phew relax everyone - I misread that w for a u.

[king12345]

So who are the elite going to unofficially arrange to win?

 

I cant find Davids' (Icke) report on what the alien lizards have whispered in his ear.

( those forked tongues really do reach the parts cotton buds just cant reach)

 

Now if anyone other than Goldsmith wins, or its close, that will be fun.

 

They are the ones who have never worked and never will, never use public transport and believe that to buy bread you have to go to a restaurant and sit down, all with money they never earned.

They are the elite who decides what's best for the average working people.

Never mind the haven't got a clue about anything related to real work.

See goldsmith for example, Boris Johnson, Cameron etc.

[tobyjugg2]

They are the ones who have never worked and never will, never use public transport and believe that to buy bread you have to go to a restaurant and sit down, all with money they never earned.

They are the elite who decides what's best for the average working people.

Never mind the haven't got a clue about anything related to real work.

See goldsmith for example, Boris Johnson, Cameron etc.

 

Come on king, if you know so much about the machinations of the elite, simple question - give a simple answer:

who do you think is going to win?

 

 

If you are a kipper - do you think your Goldsmith 'ex;Tory candidate is going to win?

If not, and more to the point - who are the (reptile?) elite going to mind control to victory?

[king12345]

Come on king, if you know so much about the machinations of the elite, simple question - give a simple answer:

who do you think is going to win?

 

 

If you are a kipper - do you think your Goldsmith 'ex;Tory candidate is going to win?

If not, and more to the point - who are the (reptile?) elite going to mind control to victory?

 

1. I'm surely not a tory supporter or sympathiser. In fact I despise the posh boys who don't know what getting up and going to work means, so 90% of the Tories.

2. I don't make predictions, but I just look at results. See brexit.

3. Reptiles apart (your idea), can you deny that it is practically impossible for the average working man to be a politician and make decisions for the country?

How many politicians do you know that used to be mechanics, taxi drivers, waiters, factory workers, builders, housewives etc???

[tobyjugg2]

How many politicians do you know that used to be mechanics, taxi drivers, waiters, factory workers, builders, housewives etc???

 

Lots and lots of local councilors

 

and LOL:

John Major

Andy Coulson

 

 

but I do agree that there is now a political class, but most are incompetent bumblers like Boris Johnson no matter how 'good' an education.

Hardly mysterious elite.

 

and the polulace COULD vote for others - but dont - so blame the 'public'.

[king12345]

Lots and lots of local councilors

 

and LOL:

John Major

Andy Coulson

 

 

but I do agree that there is now a political class, but most are incompetent bumblers like Boris Johnson no matter how 'good' an education.

Hardly mysterious elite.

 

and the polulace COULD vote for others - but dont - so blame the 'public'.

 

Local councillors...

What difference can they make to the country?

Behind the likes of Boris Johnson & co there are people pulling the strings and getting what they want.

Boris, Cameron, goldsmith etc are only acting on behalf and under instructions of the hidden elite.

Remember the recession and the bankers?

Corporations not paying any tax?

[tobyjugg2]

Local councillors...

What difference can they make to the country?

A lot - every day

 

Behind the likes of Boris Johnson & co there are people pulling the strings and getting what they want.

Boris, Cameron, goldsmith etc are only acting on behalf and under instructions of the hidden elite.

If its some hidden elite behind Johnsons ramblings then they would have become bankrupt and powerless years ago

 

Remember the recession and the bankers?

Corporations not paying any tax?

Dont need to remember - its still happening.

 

 

So why are the 'great' british public voting for them rather than anybody and I do mean anybody else?

You never know - We might get Donald Trump-Worthington, DT's british cousin.. if the a chunk of the US vote was on that basis.

 

But why not support those local counselors you deride?

Edited December 1, 2016 by Andyorch
edited

[king12345]

A lot - every day

 

 

If its some hidden elite behind Johnsons ramblings then they would have become bankrupt and powerless years ago

 

 

Dont need to remember - its still happening.

 

 

So why are the 'great' british public voting for them rather than anybody and I do mean anybody else?

You never know - We might get Donald Trump-Worthington, DT's british cousin.. if the a chunk of the US vote was on that basis.

 

But why not support those local counselors you deride?

 

No,no,no, I don't deride the local councillors.

To the contrary I admire them for their dedication.

Unfortunately they can only act at local level, not national.

People don't vote for someone else because there is no one else.

To be elected you have to be affiliated to a party, otherwise you don't get media coverage and people don't know you.

How many londoners knew that there were other candidates for mayor apart from khan and zac?

[tobyjugg2]

No,no,no, I don't deride the local councillors.

To the contrary I admire them for their dedication.

Unfortunately they can only act at local level, not national.

With support they could become more

 

People don't vote for someone else because there is no one else.

 

To be elected you have to be affiliated to a party, otherwise you don't get media coverage and people don't know you.

How many londoners knew that there were other candidates for mayor apart from khan and zac?

You are contradicting yourself there

There are other candidates, and locals (Londoners in this case) should be aware of them even if nationally people dont. they may not be,

but blaming the media, and then saying the media didn't tell me how to vote simply doesn't wash.

 

 

Do you know one of the real main reasons why politics has become more elitist again?

 

Read carefully and be illuminated

(BBC link given as its often considered the supporter of the elite)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-12282505

[king12345]

The media coverage is the key to a win, no doubt about it, It's a fact.

In London elections there were two horses and a bunch of unknown running for mayor.

The two horses got all the media coverage, the others simply didn't appear anywhere, no tv, no interviews, nothing in the papers.

No chance for them whatsoever.

The BBC link you posted is old news, I've been saying this for 20 years.

[tobyjugg2]

The BBC link you posted is old news, I've been saying this for 20 years.

 

 

What have you been saying for years king1235?

[tobyjugg2]

while we are waiting for the Richmond by-election results and king12345 to clarify what he means by 'hes been saying whats in the link for years'

 

Heres DD

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/01/brexit-secretary-suggests-uk-would-consider-paying-for-single-market-access

 

I wonder if its £350M a week - with no rebate ?

or perhaps more?

 

plus of course the inescapable pre-emminence of EU LAW ...

[king12345]

In particular I have been saying: "British politicians from all parties are being drawn from an ever smaller social pool" and "Just a glance at today's political elite and it is clear the meritocracy is in trouble. The pipeline which produces politicians has become narrower and more privileged"

 

 

And from your other link (guardian) I take that having a net contribution of 8.5bn in 2015, Farage calculations are not so wrong.

Maybe not the £350M a week he said, but still a massive amount of money.

[tobyjugg2]

In particular I have been saying: "British politicians from all parties are being drawn from an ever smaller social pool" and "Just a glance at today's political elite and it is clear the meritocracy is in trouble. The pipeline which produces politicians has become narrower and more privileged"

 

Completely missed the point. Either didn't actually read the article, or at least failed to understand anything beyond the headline.

Try again, it is worth it in gaining some comprehension (

 

Do you know one of the real main reasons why politics has become more elitist again?

Read carefully and be illuminated

(BBC link given as its often considered the supporter of the elite)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-12282505

 

Clues

What was the working class politicians 'route' to politics, and can be demonstrably seen as the only effective (and very effective it was too) route for numbers of working class people into major political (and business management fast track) positions?

Demonstrably the great leveler and great enabler despite many claiming quite the opposite.

 

The answer is clearly in the article, although not quite as clear as it should be, quite probably as its currently a bit of a political hot potato.

Just look beyond the headline, and understand the framework that story sits in.

 

Clue 2

It tells you about a time, now gone again, where working class roots people made it big in politics.

 

 

 

And from your other link (guardian) I take that having a net contribution of 8.5bn in 2015, Farage calculations are not so wrong.

Maybe not the £350M a week he said, but still a massive amount of money.

 

The figures have repeatedly been quite accurately defined despite Brexit lies, even though the benefits (far higher) are often ignored by everyone in the commonly false headline stated cost.

So the point in that bit was that Dizzy Dumbo is on about paying for an almost certainly more limited access than we already get anyway, and that all that access will still need to adhere to EU law.

What price Brexit?

[tobyjugg2]

Grammer schools

[king12345]

Completely missed the point. Either didn't actually read the article, or at least failed to understand anything beyond the headline.

Try again, it is worth it in gaining some comprehension (

 

Do you know one of the real main reasons why politics has become more elitist again?

Read carefully and be illuminated

(BBC link given as its often considered the supporter of the elite)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-12282505

 

Clues

What was the working class politicians 'route' to politics, and can be demonstrably seen as the only effective (and very effective it was too) route for numbers of working class people into major political (and business management fast track) positions?

Demonstrably the great leveler and great enabler despite many claiming quite the opposite.

 

The answer is clearly in the article, although not quite as clear as it should be, quite probably as its currently a bit of a political hot potato.

Just look beyond the headline, and understand the framework that story sits in.

 

Clue 2

It tells you about a time, now gone again, where working class roots people made it big in politics.

 

 

 

 

 

The figures have repeatedly been quite accurately defined despite Brexit lies, even though the benefits (far higher) are often ignored by everyone in the commonly false headline stated cost.

So the point in that bit was that Dizzy Dumbo is on about paying for an almost certainly more limited access than we already get anyway, and that all that access will still need to adhere to EU law.

What price Brexit?

 

I'm thick.

What I read in the BBC article is spelt in plain English, I cannot see the subtle message hidden between the lines that you can clearly see.

Illuminate me, mere mortal!

[tobyjugg2]

I'm thick.

What I read in the BBC article is spelt in plain English, I cannot see the subtle message hidden between the lines that you can clearly see.

Illuminate me, mere mortal!

 

"The change was a social revolution. In the 50s and early 60s, Britain had one prime minister after another - Eden, Macmillan, Douglas-Home - who hadn't just gone to public school, they went to the same public school - Eton, naturally.Then along came Labour's Harold Wilson in 1964, a Yorkshire grammar schoolboy and it looked as if things would never be the same again. For the next 33 years, every prime minister - Labour or Tory - was educated at a state school"

 

 

"With the demise of the grammar schools, a new, largely public school educated generation was taking over the Tories once more. And Labour was becoming much more middle-class and Oxbridge again."

 

 

It aint that subtle.

 

 

 

and the LibDems have won Richmond back from the Tory/kipper alliance

YAYYYY

 

Sarah Olney overturns 23,000 majority of Tory MP who quit party over plans for Heathrow airport expansion

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/02/lib-dems-unseat-zac-goldsmith-in-richmond-park-byelection

 

"with the Labour candidate, Christian Wolmar, losing his deposit."

 

..even better than hoped for.

[tobyjugg2]

What could have been done without the need for Brexit.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-swiss-eu-idUKKBN13Q43U?il=0