Article 50 Discussion

[honeybee13]

[citizenB]

Do you think if the vote had gone the other way the leavers would not have moaned

 

 

As most people who voted leave never thought it would happen (as did politicians, etc) then I think they would have just accepted it.

[citizenB]

Do you think if the vote had gone the other way the leavers would not have moaned,read what your hero says before the vote

 

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-wants-second-referendum-7985017

 

Are you taking the mickey, young Warren?

 

HB

 

Id never mess with our Queen Bee.

 

 

You never mess with a protected species

[unclebulgaria67]

There is some interesting information about the Scottish and Welsh legal cases to Article 50 Supreme court case, which can be viewed online. Basically they are saying that under devolution, the UK government cannot take away their rights or negotiate their removal using executive powers (Royal Prerogative) and they either need consent of devolved assemblies or to amend existing rights through passing full legislation in UK Parliament.

 

It is more complicated than that, but i don't really understand it, as it is written in legal jargon and points to previous legislation which i don't have knowledge of. But given how complicated it will be, i don't think Supreme Court Judges will publish their decsision in January. It could take them months to go through all of the arguments.

[determindator]

John Major last week I believe, said it is not democracy where we have to accept mob rule of a majority win with the referendum result. IMO daft statement. Let's take out 'mob' as to me that's a demeaning remark against those he doesn't agree with. When we vote in a general election, the majority vote wins. If he's saying that's not democracy then maybe we should change our government system say all parties rule all the time. No need to vote.

[WarrenBuffet]

But a majority can be just one individual, I prefer Proportional Representation myself.

[determindator]

But a majority can be just one individual, I prefer Proportional Representation myself.

 

Well they need to decide on something as clearly voting is becoming an issue.

[Surfer01]

We voted out as we did not like being dictated to by the EU and hope that this article 50 gets triggered soon as that will help the currency market firm with the sterling. I have no regrets or second thoughts about our vote as I am proud to be British. After all Britain managed without the EU for hundreds of years and had good trading relationships with many countries. I was an immigrant, but paid my way here and had to pay to get my British citizenship and passport.

I along with the few American friends have supported and hoped that Trump would win and were pleased when he did as Clinton would have been bad for America and the world. Once Trump is in office hopefully he will probably support us and put pressure on the EU to give us a fair deal.

[WarrenBuffet]

I reckon Europe will tell him the same thing the Scottish did, they will tell him to mind his own business and "Jog On!"

[Guest]

now that 'i'm allright, jack...' (re post #1033)

if its going to be free/fair (that you want) trade deal (which May seems to be assuring the likes of Nissan etc), it'll still (more) be 'dictated to' by the eu, but then without any input....

[tobyjugg2]

Once Trump is in office hopefully he will probably support us and put pressure on the EU to give us a fair deal.

 

[fletch70]

Just a few points, sorry to go back over old ground

Devaluation was only of relevance in the days of Bretton Woods and when currency was pegged ish to the dollar which was linked to gold. That has been gone for 40 years.

 

I think we can all agree, there are definitely inflationary pressures, fuel is increasing as are costs of imports . Ok so maybe the £ is strengthening against the euro but that says more about the euro than the pound.

 

If we agree there are inflationary pressures we need the think how it will be controlled, modern policy says increase interest rates. Now when Thatcher started this, it was the direct cause of U employment.

Interestingly, the sale of council houses has been blamed for high interest rates and unemployment in the late 80's and now the government look like they want to push this agenda again.

 

These things take time to come through as shown time and time again.

 

Nice to see surfer knows the reason why people voted out, if only it was that simple. There were many reasons why people voted out which included immigration, a protest against the elite and yes the often exaggerated power of the EU over the UK. I would also argue that much of the changes supported by the EU have actually benefited the average person.

 

I also think that to say we managed without the EU so we can again, misses the point. The world is a different place with different rules and we are a different nation.

[tobyjugg2]

They also get funding from big banks and big business, also government departments,

the CBI (now there’s a surprise, who would have thought that?)

plus other organisations.

 

So these are some of the people who want us to stay in the EU, well they would wouldn’t

they, but then turkeys wouldn’t vote for Christmas.

 

Just because being in the EU is good for banks, and it is, DOESN'T mean its bad for people - it isn't.

 

The current bank system is bad for the UK whether we are in the EU or out.

 

Why is the EU 'OK' with our financial system?

because they get competitive loans while the UK taxpayer (NOT EU taxpayer) takes all the risks.

 

Why do the banks like the UK?

Protected from failing and paying taxes - which they wont get in the EU.

 

 

I can sympathise with buckthorns stance that 'people I hate want to stay so I want to leave' but I am resisting cutting off my arm to spite a finger with a split nail.

I think trimming the nail would be far more in my interests.

[silverfox1961]

Thread temporarily closed for a clean up

[silverfox1961]

With many apologies to those who have posted and suddenly have found their posts have vanished. This has been done to remove all traces of the previous spat.

 

If this thread cannot continue without a 'cock fight' then it will be closed. Permanently.

 

We are all adults. Act accordingly

[unclebulgaria67]

Could be a good way to resolve Brexit arguments. Set up a few boxing rings in towns and cities across the country. Let people get the steam out of their systems.

 

The worst thing about Brexit will be the uncertainty created by it. We won't know what is really happening until about 30 months time. We might not even know then, because most people involved in the process are saying it could take 5 to 7 years. The UK government wants Brexit with the EU to be agreed within 2 years, but that might prove impossible.

 

I fear that there will be violent reactions by some across the country when Brexit is frustrated. There is a possibility that the government cannot proceed with Brexit, without a full Parliamentary process, a general election or a second referendum.

[tobyjugg2]

The worst thing about Brexit will be the uncertainty created by it. We won't know what is really happening until about 30 months time. We might not even know then, because most people involved in the process are saying it could take 5 to 7 years. The UK government wants Brexit with the EU to be agreed within 2 years, but that might prove impossible.

 

There is no real uncertainty except what is being fed by the Brexiters with fantasy claims on what can be achieved, and the rest of the politicians allowing the bovine dung they are spreading to sit there unchallenged as they have all along.

 

Stop immigration + full access to single market?

- Rubbish

A number of the most influential EU leaders have clearly stated that is NOT an option, in addition other leaders have clearly stated they would use their veto were it offered to the UK.

No negotiating ploys or if buts or maybe's - NO it isn't an option.

 

Customs union

Customs union means EU trade arrangements with the rest of the world, EU payments and EU rules.

Services (banking/Financial etc - major UK services) NOT included.

Terrible option for the UK

 

FTA's

Maybe, and maybe not and maybe years to agree

Would almost certainly not include services (thats the elite not wanting this), farming/dairy and a number of other things.

Probably little better than WTO rules overall except for a very select few

 

So the options are fresh referendum and they hope for a clear remain vote

OR

Hard Brexit and WTO rules while other deals are negotiated (and very possibly break up of the UK occurs).

 

All the rest is fammying around waffling because the politicians dont want the sheet landing squarely on their own heads.

 

Effectively the politicians are dragging it out as long as they can hoping some rabbit will pop out of a hat - probably that another EU country will announce EU-exit and get their (our politicians) personal pork out of the center of the Barbecue.

Probably the only thing that might make a difference.

[tobyjugg2]

Be interesting to see what happens with the Richmond byelection.

 

Touted as a Brexit election as all the main candidates are anti heathrow expansion.

 

Tory Goldsmith has got to be favourite despite being pro-Brexit in an educated area which massively voted remain.

Sheesh the man resigned from the Tory party as he promised over Heathrow. Mind you he'll probably quietly rejoin after we wins - if he does.

 

Lib Dems - also nti Heathrow but supposedly pro remain - but not really - she came out against any fresh referendum although she is trying to distance herself from that now.

 

Labour - official labour policy is apparently no fresh referendum - as Corbym wants OUTdespite MOST of his MP's wanting to remain.

Labour, like the lid dem candidate here appears to be soft Brexit with immigration fuzzy mush that meets none of the Brexit/Bremain major issues.

 

Greens split between standing behind Labour or Libdems.

 

Tories not standing against their 'rebel' LOL

 

bit of a farce really - but it will be spun as much more, and may yet end up as much more.

[WarrenBuffet]

There will be Civil War in the UK!

[tobyjugg2]

There will be Civil War in the UK!

 

Nothing civil about it

 

The Ricmmond byelection might be interesting if the libdems win or even come a close second ...

 

I must admit to thinking the libdems seem to be the only current option for my vote should there be a general election.

[WarrenBuffet]

Is the Monster Raving Loony Party still in existence?, they will get mine if they are?

[tobyjugg2]

Is the Monster Raving Loony Party still in existence?, they will get mine if they are?

 

No - they all moved to UKIP

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9850603/Nigel-Farage-Why-I-will-not-fight-the-Eastleigh-by-election.html

[WarrenBuffet]

No - they all moved to UKIP

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9850603/Nigel-Farage-Why-I-will-not-fight-the-Eastleigh-by-election.html

 

Oh God!!!

[tobyjugg2]

Oh God!!!

 

 

You could of course join the 'The Eccentric Party of Great Britain' which was formed partly in protest at the loonies protection of Farage.

 

For the entertainment and elucidation of the caggers here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Toby_Jug

 

(No its not me, although I have liked in drink in my time - I am not rotund, cant play the guitar, am rarely ever depressed, and my nym has two GG's)

[silverfox1961]

No - they all moved to UKIP

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9850603/Nigel-Farage-Why-I-will-not-fight-the-Eastleigh-by-election.html