Article 50 Discussion

[honeybee13]

Kevin Maguire wrote this in the Mirror yesterday. Not my favourite paper, but interesting comments.

 

Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage and Michael Gove are slippery charlatans who weaved a web of treachery to promote their jaundiced ideologies above the nation’s true interest

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/its-time-blame-brexiteers-economic-9059814

 

HB

[determindator]

Kevin Maguire wrote this in the Mirror yesterday. Not my favourite paper, but interesting comments.

 

Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage and Michael Gove are slippery charlatans who weaved a web of treachery to promote their jaundiced ideologies above the nation’s true interest

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/its-time-blame-brexiteers-economic-9059814

 

HB

 

Sounds like a quote from a Shakespeare Novel. No change over the centuries.

[tobyjugg2]

On a positive note, if I was in the Euro I would be loading up on Sterling as the last time we had parity between €/£ was the property/banks collapse in 2007-8. I reckon a very short term 20% return on investment is achievable.

 

and hows that working out for you?

 

If you actioned what you said there, unless you are a VERY major money market trader (and even most of those) you are sitting on losses currently.

 

So when is this $1,45+ 'short term' going to appear?

 

I project its at its best apart from minor blips over the next 4-6 months, with much lower most likely.

[Noah1]

This is an interesting article: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/15/the-rise-of-hateful-little-england.html

 

Once more, we are seeing examples of Brexit fuelled hooliganism:

 

What's the EU got to do with Muslims, or crimes related to race or religion? With a few exception, the majority of EU citizens are white Christians. Brexiting isn't going to alter the number of Muslims or people from other ethnic groups. I used the word hooliganism because it reminded me of those who purport to be football supporter but are, in fact, just looking for trouble and use football as an excuse. Same here.

 

 

I've attempted to explain many times here that the issues of illegal immigrants, asylum seekers, Abu Hamza, British Muslim women, etc. have nothing to do with EU citizens expelled by Britons.

 

On 13th October 2016 19:01 following was directly posted to me by king12345: 'The one who doesn't understand the basic concepts of life is you, not the brexitiers. You think to be the sharpest tool in the box, but you can't even read 2 lines without losing concentration. We, the brexitiers, know exactly the difference between illegal immigrants, asylum seekers and EU citizens. The fact that I made a comment mentioning illegal immigrants, doesn't mean that i think EU citizens are illegally coming in UK. I probably speak for everyone else here on CAGicon and possibly the majority in the real world when I say that you have no right to call brexitiers "ignorant". We got up in the morning on the day, went to the polling station and expressed our preference, fulfilling the civil duty of good citizens. You and many others decided to sink your derriere on the sofa, watching Jeremy Kyle. Now you arrogantly want to call us stupid. As far as i am concerned, the moment you decided that voting was for losers and "stupids", you gave up your right to complain or even comment on the matter.'

 

What can you conclude? I rest my case....

[Noah1]

Noah

 

As an ardent remainer, I do think that you are being particularly unkind to the UK. The UK has some beautiful and historic countryside, some fantastic buildings and can be a wonderful place.

 

Having said that I am truly concerned about how we will survive the fallout of leaving the EU , come to that , will the EU survive in a recognisable form.

 

I do think that British experience and nature is different from mainland europe , maybe because we have not had constantly shifting borders, wars, occupations. Remember Italy and Germany are only 150 ish years old.

 

the debate about brexit will rumble on for years but everyone should remember a few things

 

The referendum was only ADVISORY - although maybe any government would be silly to go against it

Yes 52% voted to leave but 28% didn't vote, want they actually wanted we will never know

Out of the 52 % that voted leave , there may have been several reasons for the vote , but there again the remainers possibly had various reasons to want to remain

 

As the referendum was only advisory and we live in a representative and not direct democracy I think that Parliament must be involved in the negotiations because there is no mandate for either side to act in a particular way - that would come from a general election and manifesto promises.

 

 

This thread wasn't aimed to admire or dispute beauty of the nature and there are many attractive places in the world, that's why Britons travel all over the world. You probably can't hear yourself hearing that you complained about doing others just the same. On the same token I can say that you're particularly unkind to visitors who wish to see Britain. Just to balance my statement, Britain has a huge problem with immigration and will continue having even more in the future considering refugees crisis or third world countries. My point was that the British choose to resolve immigration problem by expelling Europeans significantly contributing to British society. Therefore I'm a hard Brexiter, simply because Britain exploited Europe and had plan to continue doing so.

Nobody disputes that Britain has been protected because of natural borders, but this was again not the point of this thread.

[Laura Thyme]

I've attempted to explain many times here that the issues of illegal immigrants, asylum seekers, Abu Hamza, British Muslim women, etc. have nothing to do with EU citizens expelled by Britons.

So you think it's fair to "tolerate" (for want of a better word) illegal immigrants, asylum seekers, Muslims, etc. but EU citizens should be expelled, even when they all came here lawfully? That goes beyond discrimination and into "ethnic cleansing" territory.

On 13th October 2016 19:01 following was directly posted to me by king12345: 'The one who doesn't understand the basic concepts of life is you, not the brexitiers. You think to be the sharpest tool in the box, but you can't even read 2 lines without losing concentration. We, the brexitiers, know exactly the difference between illegal immigrants, asylum seekers and EU citizens. The fact that I made a comment mentioning illegal immigrants, doesn't mean that i think EU citizens are illegally coming in UK. I probably speak for everyone else here on CAGicon and possibly the majority in the real world when I say that you have no right to call brexitiers "ignorant". We got up in the morning on the day, went to the polling station and expressed our preference, fulfilling the civil duty of good citizens.

When you are talking about 17m people you have all sorts, some more ignorant than others. I started the thread to refer specifically to those who thought people who had been living here lawfully all their lives would be deported. The vote was for leaving the EU without providing any detail as to what that would involve. I think I've said this before, it was like asking you whether you'd like to stay in the UK or you'd rather emigrate to another country, without making any reference to what country or under which circumstances.

[citizenB]

 

Quote Originally Posted by Laura Thyme View Post

 

16 and 17 year olds who couldn't vote but will be of age by the time Brexit is finalised, and possible a few who may have changed their mind. Is that what's REALLY worrying you lot?

 

 

 

I was thinking of the 18 year olds plus

 

If those of a more mature age did not understand the question and what the outcome would be, what hope will there be for those who only just reached voting age !

[Noah1]

So you think it's fair to "tolerate" (for want of a better word) illegal immigrants, asylum seekers, Muslims, etc. but EU citizens should be expelled, even when they all came here lawfully? That goes beyond discrimination and into "ethnic cleansing" territory.

 

When you are talking about 17m people you have all sorts, some more ignorant than others. I started the thread to refer specifically to those who thought people who had been living here lawfully all their lives would be deported. The vote was for leaving the EU without providing any detail as to what that would involve. I think I've said this before, it was like asking you whether you'd like to stay in the UK or you'd rather emigrate to another country, without making any reference to what country or under which circumstances.

 

My point was that EU citizensall caming here lawfully, and being expelled through Brexit was a very bad problem solution by Britons.

[Laura Thyme]

My point was that EU citizens, all caming here lawfully, and being expelled through Brexit was a very bad problem solution by Britons.

OK I hear you. Sometimes it can be easy to misunderstand posts.

[Laura Thyme]

If those of a more mature age did not understand the question and what the outcome would be, what hope will there be for those who only just reached voting age !

Nobody knew what the outcome would be, not even those who put the question forward, it was a rather vague question which every voter interpreted in their own way. However, the young ones are more likely to be affected if they had plans to live, work and study abroad. A lot of the over 60s voted leave, if they were planning to retire in the sun they'd have done so by now, those still here don't have any plans to take advantage of EU free movement, that doesn't mean the younger ones wouldn't.

[determindator]

If those of a more mature age did not understand the question and what the outcome would be, what hope will there be for those who only just reached voting age !

 

Yes but there was a contingent of the younger generation who complained it was the older generation which caused the outcome. Why didn't the young people just vote for the status quo if they thought it was all hunky dory. Is the real question should a referendum been allowed. I wonder what the vote on that would have been.

[Laura Thyme]

Yes but there was a contingent of the younger generation who complained it was the older generation which caused the outcome. Why didn't the young people just vote for the status quo if they thought it was all hunky dory. Is the real question should a referendum been allowed. I wonder what the vote on that would have been.

I would say no, because the average citizen is not qualified to make a decision of that magnitude, and no-one was in full possession of the facts. Most people based their vote on their own little world and their perception of things. If they thought Polish builders were stealing their job, they'd vote leave, without any regard to the big picture. Similarly, many thought the money paid to the EU would go towards the NHS. Isn't it funny that there should have been so much talk about the NHS being overstretched just in time for the referendum?

 

Also the referendum was intended for CaMoron to gain the vote of UKIPers and divert attention from all the devastating effects of his austerity program, WHO would have voted for yet more austerity? Only he focused on Europe and many were misled into thinking that immigration was the reason for austerity and that Brexit would put an end to it.

[king12345]

Thread officially highjacked!

There's another thread about brexit, this one started as a bit of a laugh.

[Consumer dude]

CD cordially invites all Brexit supporters to join him on a victory parade which will include laughter and joyous celebration. ::whoo::whoo:..

[king12345]

CD cordially invites all Brexit supporters to join him on a victory parade which will include laughter and joyous celebration. ::whoo::whoo:..

 

You must be bored CD, up at 4am organising parties...

I'm in!!!

[AndyOrch]

Consumer dude ..just how many threads do you intend to create on the same subject ? Seriously thinking of merging them all into one...

 

Andy

[unclebulgaria67]

Consumer dude ..just how many threads do you intend to create on the same subject ? Seriously thinking of merging them all into one...

 

Andy

 

Good idea !

 

Or just one politics thread, so those that want to read and debate politics have one thread. I know that a lot of people get put off by political subjects and therefore may not be interested in the Bear Garden as a result, if it is dominated by many threads on political issues.

[silverfox1961]

Consumer dude ..just how many threads do you intend to create on the same subject ? Seriously thinking of merging them all into one...

 

Andy

 

Either that or change the forum title to 'Consumer Dude's Bear Garden' OR an entirely new forum dedicated to him!

[fletch70]

I have to say it didn't sound like a bit of a laugh

 

It sounded like a rant which is fair enough but it did not sound like a tongue in cheek rant

[fletch70]

If those of a more mature age did not understand the question and what the outcome would be, what hope will there be for those who only just reached voting age !

 

Sadly some young supposedly educated people did vote to leave and when you listen to them you hear their parents words coming out of their mouths. I say that because when challenged they can not back up their arguments.

[fletch70]

Hi Noah

I think the real ignorance here was King when they stated 'You and many others decided to sink your derriere on the sofa, watching Jeremy Kyle.'

 

Firstly , even though many may disagree, it is not a crime to watch Jeremy Kyle but more importantly King seemed to be suggesting, and I don't think it was for the first time that people that do not agree with him/her and somehow underclass **** . I have issues with that phrase on so many levels.

 

What has amazed me is how this issue of the EU transcends class, gender and culture and how quickly people forget that this country is a melting pot of beliefs and traditions and also if it were not for us opening our doors to refugees from parts of the world , some of these people would not be alive today.

 

It seems that significant numbers of people are racist and xenophobic

 

It seems that a significant number of people do not actually no what they voted for other than to leave the EU, I suspect that some believed Boris when he said that if we voted to leave the EU would roll over and give us what cameron had asked for - in reality , is it likely that they would set that precedent , leaving any other country free to do the same

 

It seems that a significant number of people do not understand the global economy or Britains place in it, we have a small manufacturing base so we have to import much of what we eat, drink and use. The £ has fallen meaning that inflation MUST rise on imports but also on many of the raw materials that we use in the minimal manufacturing base we still have. There is no option to buy british for many things.

 

Some people seem to say that the £ has been over valued , I doubt that - if you visit continental europe , it is true that even at !.40 many of the global brands are more expensive than here and not at the rate we have they are extortionate so I suspect that the rate of 1.40-1.50 is probably about the right rate for balance.

 

The EU is not perfect and is still an advocate of capitalism but I believe that we would be better off as a country to remain in it and try to reform it from within.

 

I think that the real consequences of leaving will not start to show themselves until next year with inflation rising steeply. I don't drive but I believe that petrol has increased very significantly in price.

 

When inflation rises , the people who will suffer the most will be the poorer people in society including pensioners

[king12345]

Hi Noah

I think the real ignorance here was King when they stated 'You and many others decided to sink your derriere on the sofa, watching Jeremy Kyle.'

 

Firstly , even though many may disagree, it is not a crime to watch Jeremy Kyle but more importantly King seemed to be suggesting, and I don't think it was for the first time that people that do not agree with him/her and somehow underclass **** . I have issues with that phrase on so many levels.

 

What has amazed me is how this issue of the EU transcends class, gender and culture and how quickly people forget that this country is a melting pot of beliefs and traditions and also if it were not for us opening our doors to refugees from parts of the world , some of these people would not be alive today.

 

It seems that significant numbers of people are racist and xenophobic

 

It seems that a significant number of people do not actually no what they voted for other than to leave the EU, I suspect that some believed Boris when he said that if we voted to leave the EU would roll over and give us what cameron had asked for - in reality , is it likely that they would set that precedent , leaving any other country free to do the same

 

It seems that a significant number of people do not understand the global economy or Britains place in it, we have a small manufacturing base so we have to import much of what we eat, drink and use. The £ has fallen meaning that inflation MUST rise on imports but also on many of the raw materials that we use in the minimal manufacturing base we still have. There is no option to buy british for many things.

 

Some people seem to say that the £ has been over valued , I doubt that - if you visit continental europe , it is true that even at !.40 many of the global brands are more expensive than here and not at the rate we have they are extortionate so I suspect that the rate of 1.40-1.50 is probably about the right rate for balance.

 

The EU is not perfect and is still an advocate of capitalism but I believe that we would be better off as a country to remain in it and try to reform it from within.

 

I think that the real consequences of leaving will not start to show themselves until next year with inflation rising steeply. I don't drive but I believe that petrol has increased very significantly in price.

 

When inflation rises , the people who will suffer the most will be the poorer people in society including pensioners

 

Stirring an empty pot of bother.

[WarrenBuffet]

I agree, fletch70 it was expressed in humour

[WarrenBuffet]

I havn't heard the lady sing yet!

[Consumer dude]

One serious politics thread and one humorous politics thread perhaps ?..