Article 50 Discussion

[san_d]

Laura, you're fighting for a lost cause. Brexitards don't understand facts. They are sheeple who will think and do what the tabloids will tell them to think or do.

[san_d]

The traitors know who they are..

 

Anybody who can read a book.

[Consumer dude]

Is the tide finally turning that the re moaners now accept they are flogging a dead horse..

[cjcregg]

 

 

Indeed, some people think they know everything, no idea where they get their "facts" from, that's why I challenged them to post up sources.

 

 

That's the problem though isn't it? Nobody knows the key facts on whether we'll be better off outside EU unless and until the Government have negotiated the zillions of trade agreements with nations around the world, which will clearly take decades.

 

 

The decision on whether to leave the EU should have been placed in the hands of independent economists. Instead, in his wisdom, David Cameron left the decision to the British public, the group least qualified to make an informed decision. Some of the comments on this thread illustrate just that.

 

 

The unintended consequences of Brexit are still largely as yet unfathomable by the Government, let alone the average individual.

 

 

Some people think that referendums are how a democracy is supposed to work. But frankly I'd rather my family's future wasn't in the hands of Mrs Miggins at number 92 and Daily Mail readers.

[king12345]

How many people come to the UK just to commit a crime and then leave? Most immigrants come here to live and work. There are a few criminals amongst immigrants just like there are amongst the British, and leaving the EU isn't going to make any difference to crime rates.

Not many, but even one is one too many.

Having more money to invest in border control and having better checks done at border will definitely reduce the chances of a criminal entering UK unchallenged.

Ever seen Australia border force program?

They check with country of residence for any convictions or pending prosecution and decide whether to grant entry or not.

 

And so can anyone who lives lawfully in this country. You do realise, don't you? that it's only the illegals who can't come and go as they please.

Yes I realise that and it is implied.

 

There is nothing to suggest a higher number of criminals amongst EU citizens than other groups such as British or non EU immigrants.

I don't dispute this, but forbidding entry to even one criminal can save someone's life.

 

You previously referred to credit cards which is most definitely NOT taxpayers money. It's not easy to avoid paying council tax, if you read the bailiff threads you'll find it's strictly enforced even after you move house. And, once more, there's nothing to support your theory that EU immigrants are more likely to default on their council tax than everyone else.

Courts run at a loss.

Once people default on council tax and move, they only need to register for a new council tax with their name mispelled by one letter to become untraceable.

Again, I am not saying that EU citizens default more than others, but better even one council tax enforced successfully is positive result.

 

You seem to think you are the only one who pays taxes.

And you seem to be one who doesn't.

 

And there are no lazy ones working cash in hand and claiming benefits amongst Brits and non EU?

Yes, there are

 

You are not a very good example of a well informed Brexiter, are you? Passing judgment and making statements without any foundation. If you are going to say all the things you've posted above, please post a link to the sources you are using, where it says that there are more criminals, more council tax defaulters and more benefit fraudsters amongst EU citizens than any other group.

 

I never said that.

You need to read past the first line of posts.

I know it's a challenge, but try...

[unclebulgaria67]

That's the problem though isn't it? Nobody knows the key facts on whether we'll be better off outside EU unless and until the Government have negotiated the zillions of trade agreements with nations around the world, which will clearly take decades.

 

 

The decision on whether to leave the EU should have been placed in the hands of independent economists. Instead, in his wisdom, David Cameron left the decision to the British public, the group least qualified to make an informed decision. Some of the comments on this thread illustrate just that.

 

 

The unintended consequences of Brexit are still largely as yet unfathomable by the Government, let alone the average individual.

 

 

Some people think that referendums are how a democracy is supposed to work. But frankly I'd rather my family's future wasn't in the hands of Mrs Miggins at number 92 and Daily Mail readers.

 

I agree with that comment so much, that is word for word what i have would have written.

 

Brexit will be a very expensive lesson for the UK.

 

Theresa May has already promissed to compensate Nissan any costs it would incur staying in the UK after Brexit, if it is affected by EU tariffs and other issues. You can bet that other UK businesses will be looking to UK government for financial assistance and the bill to UK treasury could run into tens of billions.

 

People do not realise just how much UK businesses are integrated with those sited on EU mainland. In my area there are tens of thousands of jobs with companies who operate throughout the UK and EU mainland. These companies could be badly affected depending on what Brexit deal is negotiated.

 

At some point the reality of Brexit will hit home and there will be huge demand on government to hold a second referendum.

[Old Cogger]

a little knowledge is dangerous!

[king12345]

Really? How so?

They already are.

Not enough resources to enforce

 

Unfortunately illegal immigration has zilch to do with the EU, so Brexit won't make any difference.

A number of illegal immigrants enter UK using EU identity cards.

So there's something to do with it.

 

 

Funny that, because benefits paid out are NOT enough for anyone to live comfortably, have you seen the "Life on the Dole" programs by any chance? And these days, new arrivals from the EU can only enjoy that "comfortable" lifestyle for a few months.

I shall say that to my EU "friends" who drive better car than any honest hard worker, have larger tvs and dine out 3 times a week.

 

Just as well you are not an MP. It's not up to you to "condone" anything, and people don't just "decide to stay on benefits". You are aware, are you not, that it may not always be easy to find a job? Also JSA claimants have to satisfy strict jobseeking conditions, they can't just "decide" not to work.

Did I ever say "ALL"???

SOME deliberately avoid working because they're better off on benefits.

 

Was that the EU's fault? If the EU was responsible for terrorists entering the country, there would be no such problems in the US or the rest of the non EU world.

Again, even if we can block entry of one single criminal, it could mean that someone's life is saved.

 

So you'd rather not have any human rights?

Abu Hamza gave up his human rights when he violated those of his victims.

That's how it should be.

You can't commit genocide and than get away with punishment by invoking human rights.

And don't forget that Hamza's family still lives here at our expenses despite giving him full support and cover.

Thanks human rights!

 

I love your theories, all totally unfounded. You do know, don't you? That claimants have to pay a court fee to issue a claim? Are you also aware that the vast majority such claims go undefended, they end in default judgment? The claimant still has to pay their fee to file the claim, but the court doesn't need to do anything. Default judgment is a purely admin process. In the few cases of defended claims that make it to court, the claimant also has to pay an additional fee for the hearing.

See previous quote.

 

You don't know the first thing about me or my money so please save your personal attacks for those you know about. The court system does get its money. I suggest you read other threads on this site and other sites and familiarise yourself with court procedure before you rant.

See previous quote

 

I never said I agreed with people not paying their rent. The point is, none of these problems have anything to do with the EU.

Tell that to landlords trying to evict EU nationals from their places after they haven't paid rent for months.

 

I didn't say that, did I? Are you aware that there are also thousands of Brits claiming benefits in other EU countries? If you are going to keep ranting, I suggest you start posting up some sources to back up your rants.

 

Brits claiming benefits in EU countries???

Is fantasyland part of EU???

[Noah1]

sounds like a condonement. its ok so long as you are british. its ok then to commit a crime here if you're british. not in most peoples book.

its not the eu cits, its the system. change the domestic system (whilst still being in), so that lazy brits cant be better off on benefits. then eu cits wont be able to either. it really is that simple, and can be done.

 

A good point, the system is flaved and it doesn't address abuse, frauds so claimants jus carry on. However EU citizens are scape goat because they're not even the largest group claiming benefits.

[Noah1]

Laura, you're fighting for a lost cause. Brexitards don't understand facts. They are sheeple who will think and do what the tabloids will tell them to think or do.

 

That's why the title 'Shocking ignorance amongst Brexit voters exposed' is so appropriate.

[Noah1]

nope. hr laws were already in place here, and were subject to the EctHR anyway prior to the EC/EU. the uk drafted the ECHR (based on uk principles). and, the Human rights act simply codifed what was already in place.

plus, May has already said there wld be no 'exit' from the ECHR.

 

Plus it was Britain who gave all his family (non of them coming from Europe) benefits, council house, legal aid, education, comfortable life and it has nothing to do with EU. Logic of Brexiters: Britain has a problem with illegal immigrants from the Middle East, Africa, Asia as they produce fake ID cards and come to the UK. Let's expell EU citizens who come to the UK legally, work for minimum vage, are educated and integrated into Western culture. Result: Britain will have even bigger problem with illegal immigrants from the Middle East, Africa, Asia as they produce fake ID cards and will continue coming to the UK. Britain will became in the proces poorer because you expelled cheap workers from Europe and assylum seekers need benefit, education, NHS and council houses. Your children will face unprecidented challenges in dealing with consequences of Brexit logic.

[Noah1]

I don't recall anyone using the word stupid. If they did, please say which post.

 

HB

 

On 13th October 2016 19:01 following was directly posted to me by king12345: 'The one who doesn't understand the basic concepts of life is you, not the brexitiers. You think to be the sharpest tool in the box, but you can't even read 2 lines without losing concentration. We, the brexitiers, know exactly the difference between illegal immigrants, asylum seekers and EU citizens. The fact that I made a comment mentioning illegal immigrants, doesn't mean that i think EU citizens are illegally coming in UK. I probably speak for everyone else here on CAG and possibly the majority in the real world when I say that you have no right to call brexitiers "ignorant". We got up in the morning on the day, went to the polling station and expressed our preference, fulfilling the civil duty of good citizens. You and many others decided to sink your derriere on the sofa, watching Jeremy Kyle. Now you arrogantly want to call us stupid. As far as i am concerned, the moment you decided that voting was for losers and "stupids", you gave up your right to complain or even comment on the matter.' Why then I've received a message to keep it civil?

[determindator]

Blame the Government for not selling the dream.

[WarrenBuffet]

Indeed! determindator.

[Noah1]

Blame the Government for not selling the dream.

 

The Government blamed the EU for the issues that were not even caused by EU so in a way the dream was sold to Brexiters. However, when you dream you have to remember that you will have to wake up at some point.

[determindator]

BTW I meant dream from a business point of view. I think the Government have woke up now hopefully. You'd think they would have learnt from the voting which caused a coalition Government. You have to work at putting a credible case to the people.

 

From another aspect,whilst all this lively debate going on here have we considered if the referendum was called to divide and conquer?

 

While i'm here I voted in at a push, as there's a lot of waste. I think the title of this thread can seem offensive tbh.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

credible case to the people

[determindator]

BTW I meant dream from a business point of view. I think the Government have woke up now hopefully. You'd think they would have learnt from the voting which caused a coalition Government. You have to work at putting a credible case to the people.

 

From another aspect,whilst all this lively debate going on here have we considered if the referendum was called to divide and conquer?

 

While i'm here I voted in at a push, as there's a lot of waste. I think the title of this thread can seem offensive tbh.

 

I could say the shocking ignorance of the young people and any one who didn't vote and blamed the older generation for the outcome.

[citizenB]

From what, CD ?

[Noah1]

BTW I meant dream from a business point of view. I think the Government have woke up now hopefully. You'd think they would have learnt from the voting which caused a coalition Government. You have to work at putting a credible case to the people.

 

From another aspect,whilst all this lively debate going on here have we considered if the referendum was called to divide and conquer?

 

While i'm here I voted in at a push, as there's a lot of waste. I think the title of this thread can seem offensive tbh.

 

I could say the shocking ignorance of the young people and any one who didn't vote and blamed the older generation for the outcome.

 

I've got your indirect message, the title is not offensive as we are adults.

If you 'voted in at a push, as there's a lot of waste' I suggest you also push a bit your PM to get along with your vote because Europeans can't wait Britain leaves the EU in order to protect their heritage.

[Consumer dude]

The title can be seen to be offensive as it implies a statement of fact where no facts are proved..

[WarrenBuffet]

Just like the referendum then .......

[Noah1]

I have had enough and hopefully you have too with the betrayal of our great country, let's send a clear message to those that seek to talk a load of nonsense and say, get real and get a life, rant over and I thank you..

 

Clear message is this, keep your rainy island to yourself (who is interested anyway?), stay at you chilly beaches, stop overcrowding sunny beaches all over the world ( in fact you may want to cease all your travel). Also please get citizens of your country to work for lowest wages and stop using foreigners as cheap workers. Most importantly stop blaiming the rest of the world for your problems.

[WarrenBuffet]

Do you not live in UK then Noah?

[Noah1]

The title can be seen to be offensive as it implies a statement of fact where no facts are proved..

 

 

Off course facts can be proved, just look at the previous posts. Illegal immigration, Asylum seekers, African, Middle Eastern and Asian illegals getting false IDs sneaking in the UK were outline in Brexit topic on numerous occassion. Furthermore, EU citizens were accused of getting benefits straight after their arrival which would be even against the UK law and the DWP would never grant such payments. It proved that some Brexiters have not even a clue about the UK laws and are not able to distinquish legal migrants working for a minimum vage contributing to society from asylum seekers or illegal immigrants getting everything for free as they can't legally work at all. If you call it informed and factual argument, then you just prove the point.

[Noah1]

Do you not live in UK then Noah?

 

I have experience in living in different parts of the world and that's why I find arrogant statements such as 'betrayal of our great country'. This thread seems to a pitty party of elderly UK citizens. The only people that betray Britain are Britons.