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    • I had Friday 29th in my mind so that I would get it  and not miss the Monday deadline. Is that the best course of action? Any thoughts from the forum on my plan of 'prove I'm the driver' idea? Is this silly or worth doing? 
    • Indeed. I was just thinking 'Here we go again'. NHS trusts are saying they have problems and want to move to Plan B, Indie Sage scientists are saying things need to change. But HMG isn't listening and says everything's fine.    Meanwhile Chris Whitty has at least stressed the importance of masks, ventilation and so on. 
    • I have heartbreaking news my brother has died 😪 I am well and truly heartbroken😪 I am finding this difficult to write but i need to write this for my brother, There has been a catalogue of fatal errors by this gp practice and even by the hospital before/after the sleeping pills that should never have been prescribed.   background prior to the sleeping pill wrongly prescribed   Diagnaosed with vascular dementia 2019   May 2020   Weight loss reported NO dysphagia (Without any investigation GP writes NO dysphagia (swallowing difficulties which can lead to aspiration pneimonia, weight loss) Prescribed ensure   Jun 2020   weight/diet/nutritional assessment tasked DN team     Referral out    Community Referral for Elderly Care   june 2020 In view of suspected covid infection best to defer weight check/assessment There was no suspected covid infection, how gp got this? nobody called the gp and it was uk lockdown   Jul 2020 Eating & Drinking Complaint brother eating less and losing weight   Jul 2020 Dry cough over night. white phlegm noted Diagnosis: Viral upper respiratory tract infection     Jul 2020    57 Kg weight told Gp over the phone   24 Aug 2020  1 week poor appetite & drowsiness- keeps falling asleep Decrease in appetite   25 Aug 2020 Reported to GP 6 months of steady weight loss: 14kg (June weight 66, now 50kg) NO dysphagia (how without investigating further) If GP had investigated further it would shown my brother had swallowing difficulties which was causing the weigt loss and chest infections.   Feb 2021 Presenting complaint (XaIm8) - chesty cough phlem Diagnosis: Respiratory tract infection     Mar 2021  Presenting complaint (XaIm8) - not eating or sleeping Poor appetite (lost 1 stone since then) and poor sleep   April 2021 Serious reaaction to sleeping pills - causing 2 litres of uring retention indwelling catheter as posted in this thread and problems   18 Jun 2021 chest infection   30 Jun 2021  Chest Ingection Diagnossi should finish antibiotics and plenty fluids   7Jul 2021 Complaint - struggling to swallow large capsules Weight loss/not eating drinking properly Requested liquid version or smaller size capsules   9 July complaint - Please see yesterday's entry by and task sent to , sister saying pt hasn't taken Prostate medication for 4/7, urine rention building up, sistrer concerned requesting alternative medication, small tablet form if not available in liquid, sister says it is urgent for today. Re: patient unable to swallow due to size (approx 24.2mm x 7.7mm SmPC)   10 Jul 2021    Presenting complaint  - Please see 09.07.21 entry, patient still struggling to swallow tablet, urine retention building   July 2021 Nose dripping week, swallowing mucous For the last week cough with green sputum Note previous course of antibioitcs in june for chest infection longstanding swallowing problems - BUT NOT INVESTIGATED!!!!   1 Aug 2021 Feels has chest infection. cough 2 weeks- productive green phelgm Diagnosis: Chest infection - unspecified bronchitis   10 Aug 2021   blocked sinuses/runny nose despite 2 x recent antibiotics,just finished amoxicillin +probable viral infection no further antibiotics indicated observe for now   12 Aug 2021 Presenting complaint struggling with breathing sister concerned wanting Gp to review HOME visit tomorrow   13 August Brother taken to hospital diagnosed with exacerbation of copd steroid tablets, antibiotic tablets, antibiotics into vein in arm struggled to take bloods on 3rd attempt, left with bruised vein chest xray shows pneumonia sent home 7 days meds letter for Gp requests follow up chest xray in 6 weeks (NEVER DONE)   18 August 16 Aug 2021   Presenting complaint - discuss ambulance report thinks needs home visit everyday adv sister is reassuring he did not need nebuliser *brother was put on nebuliser in hospital in august, gp is wrong) A/E attendance likely all related to current LRTI     22 August 2021 Presenting complaint (XaIm8) Home visit Pnemonia. Chest still doesnt sound clear. 1 medication finished today 2 finishing tomorrow - steroids Home visit done by GP Chest clear, good AE B/L, no resp distress HS N, calves SNT, WWP, regular pulse Abdomen SNT Diagnosis: Chest infection NOS (XE0Xs)- resolved   24 Aug 2021  Home visit Chest clear, good AE b/l Diagnosis: Hay fever - unspecified allergen (X00l9)   I then made a private appoint with a respitatory consultant, he got access to the chest xray done in August 2021 and told me my brother had pneomnia in the right lung aspiration pneomonia caused by swallowing difficulties, food liquid going down wrong way into the lungs, causing infection leading to pneaomia. This consultant gave a report of findings, also askig GP to make referral to SALTS carry out swallow assessment. This referral was done far too late by the GP over 10 days delay and only after i kept on complaining why wasnt the SALTS team coming and my brother was down to 6stone in weight. I had to go private consultant for aspiration pneomonia  diagnosis on chest xrays done in August 2021 then give that report to GP to make a SALTS referral. The previous chest infections was aspiration pneomonia but GP clearly misdianosed inc on Home Visits after the August 2021 hospital attendance.   WEIGHT COMPLAINT!! 19 Sep 2021   Presenting complaint wanting to discuss weight loss Discussed - I will task DNs to carry out these reviews as too weak to come to surgery now. Also check weight/ BP I will refer to dietitian Diagnosis: Weight loss - AFTER 12 MONTHS and after lots of complaints GP DECIDES WEIGHT to 6STONE!! decided referral to diatcian after I tell GP!   22 Sep 2021    Recieved a letter from xyz clinic 2 days ago to ask GP doctor to arrange swallowing assessment about swallowing issues GP Diagnosis: Swallowing symptoms (XE0r7) - ONLY AFTER WE TELL HIM PRIVATE CONSULTANT FINDNGS. GP did not bother to investigate all the complains I made about swallowing difficultities. I went to private consultant to get dignosis on swallowing problems, despite makings lots of complaints to GP and being ignored. I was doing the Gp's job in getting the diagnosis for swallowing problems!!   24 Sep 2021 SALTS REFERRAL made  BY GP - ONLY AFTER I WENT TO PRIVATE CONSULTANT Please advise pt's daughter that the GP has messaged the secratary to refer the pt to SALTS referral     27 Sep 2021 Presenting complaint - Presenting complaint (XaIm8) Requesting powder sachets instead of premade shakes. Patient is struggling to swallow these as liquid is rather thick. Family have purchased a few sachets of powder and find these better for him. Also mentioned patient has lost around 1 stone in weight and are concern.   28 Sep 2021 Presenting complaint - Pt having swallowing issues and pt taking Movicol sachets but still constipated as struggling to swallow down properly. DN   GP DOES Hospital Referral for Feeding/ Swallowing AFTER COMPLAINT MADE   30 Sep 2021    Presenting complaint - Unable to swallow movicol properly therefore family request another enema. requests GP to assess first as has had 2 enemas fairly recently already. ongoing swallowing issues - sister says losing weight fast. Been referred to SALT & this has been marked as urgent now.   4 October 2021    Presenting complaint - Concerned about ongoing swallowing issues ?chest infection. says chockes whilst drinking ensures- SALT referral sent E&D less leading to weight loss -Dietician referral sent Patent airways Chest clear, good AE B/L MEDICAL NEGLIGENCE - SEE 5th October!! (This GP is on audio recording telling us the chest is clear)   5th October follow up appointment with private respitatory consultant Diagnosis pneomia due to aspiration (swallowing diffuclties/dementia) Prescribed 4 months of maintenance antibiotics Diagnosis pneomia when the GP the day before said everything was clear!!     7 Oct 2021   Complaint - Why SALTS team not been for assessment, should be marked urgent brother weigh down to 5.5stone. Says spoke to SALT team last week - will be complaining as SALT referral recieved on 21/9. Apolagised for this but on system it was actually sent on 19/09/21 Diagnosis: Swallowing (Xa4M7) -> (ignored my complaints for over 2 years on swallowing problems, and put no dyspghia on my brothers record 2 years ago - when swallowing problems were going on even abck then.   10 Oct 2021   Spoke to sister who has spoke to SALT team on 02/10. Felt SALT nurse was rudee. Says nurse said appointment may take some time ?due to back log of patients in covid period GP then contacts SALTS team to try expedite appointment Diagnosis: Speech and language therapy     12 Oct 2021 Private swallowing assessment done by speech therapist because the GP and SALTS were going aound in circles and brother rapidly losing weight! Private assessment shows serious swallow problem, recommends SALTS team urgent see my brother   15 Oct 2021 Brother coughs up phelhm with blood 1 time in day, reported to GP and request home visit   16 Oct 2021 GP home visit, checks chest, says clear and nothing to worry about - on video GP says brother has blood clot in lungs, go AE and wait, tell GP brother too frail weak, weight 5stone, unable to wait in AE. Request GP make arrangement for xray, bloods, ecg at hospital so brother no need to wait in AE. GP says NO, you have to wait AE. GP will arrange ambulance to go to AE where you WILL HAVE TO WAIT even if it means waiting 6-7hours. Inform GP this is impossible. GP leaves. Calls back in 20mins says NO BEDS available, you just have to wait in AE if it means waiting 7 hours then just wait. Explain the difficulty dementia, too frail, high risk of catching bug and request GP arrange time for brother to go into hospital for bloods, xray, ecg etc, GP says no. Then turns the conversation around telling me 'so your refusing to take your brother to hpstal, if he dies its your fault, i will put that down on his records'. GP hangs the phone.   10 mins later brother collapses, ambulance called, oxygen given, stats up. Taken into hosital, where immedialtely the staff tell me your brother is emacitated dehyradted way too much, all skin and bones. Tell staff, swallow problems, weight loss, complaints to Gp, Gp not listening etc. Brother kept in overnight put onto IV fluids. Discharged the next day   few days later, brother health deteroriates, paramedics to the home, say its pneomonia, i tell them its aspiration pneonua, they agree, explain the swallow problems, weight loss. They say you need to complain to GP.   Oxygen provided, stats go up, paramedics leave 2hrs later stats drop ambulance called, oxygen given 1hhr stats go up, ambulance staff they cant leave oxygen again because 2nd time called to house. They call GP to house with injections inc morphone, which thankfully were never used. Brother passes way at home   My brother died weight was under 5stone, he was skeletone and bones, weight loss problems, swallowing problems complaints made over 2 years and nothing was done until the last couple of weeks only after I went to private consultant for diagnosis, who sent his report the ignorant gps, the same for the private speech therapist report to gp   Gp only refer to dietiacian when brother weight down under 6 stone!! In 2 years no demential assessment done, only done last 2 weeks of brothers life after I complained to GP   This is what I can remember, they will be things I have forgot to add. I am devastated.                                                                                
    • I see, thank you very much. Sorry for repeating the same questions myself! Im working on getting the quotes now
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Locked ward


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A member of my family is in an NHS hospital. He has had a stroke that means he struggles to recognise places.

 

He has been assessed as having capacity, and wants to go home, so he is being discharged to living alone, carers coming in a couple of times a day, but basically, free to go where he wishes.

 

However, until all the carers etc can be sorted he is being kept on a locked ward, and the staff will not let him leave the ward.

 

Surely this is false imprisonment, if he has capacity they can't imprison him?

 

They have also said things like "you have to have a key safe fitted before we allow you home", and told him that he can't discharge himself.

 

Not that I want him to discharge himself, but surely, if he has the capacity to make the decision to be discharged into the community he has capacity to go down to the hospital shop to buy a packet of smarties?

 

 

What can I do? Surely they can't do this?

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Unless its a secure mental health issue, then they cant stop a patient from leaving.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

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The ward is kept locked, only the staff can open the doors, and they refuse when he asks.

 

 

When I visit I can only leave if the staff let me out, it is really horrible...

 

 

It is an elderly medicine ward, so not mental health as such.

 

It may be horrible to have to be let out by the staff, but it is necessary for SOME patients, (those who are confused and who aren't competent to decide to leave, who may otherwise 'wander)', so it isn't uncommon to find this, for their safety.

 

That doesn't mean it should be used to prevent the competent leaving, though!.

Have you discussed this with the ward sister, or his Care of the Elderly Physician (Consultant)?. It may be worth clarifying if they have concerns for his safety, if there is a deliberate policy, or if it is some over-zealous junior member of staff!.

 

Once you know they don't have grounds, then there are 3 options, in increasing levels of "impact":

 

1) You ask to leave, and he goes with you. You can go to the shop together, and he can return to the ward if he wants.

2) Arrange for a member of PALS to be with him when he asks to leave the ward. If they refuse, the member of PALS can advocate for him, if he isn't detained, and is competent to decide to leave. If they don't have grounds to detain him it is unlikely they'll decline when faced with a member of the hospital's own PALS team acting as an advocate ....

3) When they refuse to open the door for him, you or he tell them you will ask for the police to be called as he is being falsely imprisoned........ (I'd suggest being sure that he isn't being lawfully detained before this one!).

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PALS, as ever, are acting as the Hospital excuses department, I have never known PALS to act as anything other than a "PATIENTS ARE ALWAYS WRONG" section, but they have to be gone through before access is given to the higher levels of the complaints procedure.

 

The hospital have not gone through the Deprivation of Liberty procedure, I am not aware of any other lawful route that they could have gone down to be able to lock him up?

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Guest roaringmouse

If he wants to leave, tell hi m to set of the fire alarm. That will unlock all doors automatically.

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Reckless advise which could and would endanger lives if resulted in a evac !

 

And result in a criminal prosecution

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

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Guest roaringmouse

Trust me. If I want to leave any building and they refuse to let me, I WILL set off the fire alarm. When the police arrive I would simply explain that they refused to let me leave.

 

Nonsense advise that setting off the fire alarm endangers life. It is specifically there to SAVE lives.

 

The kind of advise that a child is given when a bully smacks them in the mouth - don't hit back. No DO hit back, twice as hard.

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Trust me. If I want to leave any building and they refuse to let me, I WILL set off the fire alarm. When the police arrive I would simply explain that they refused to let me leave.

 

Nonsense advise that setting off the fire alarm endangers life. It is specifically there to SAVE lives.

 

The kind of advise that a child is given when a bully smacks them in the mouth - don't hit back. No DO hit back, twice as hard.

 

Yeah, sod everyone else - Roaringmouse is stamping their feet and wants to play outside.

 

Halfway through delicate surgery Mr. Smith? Sorry, but we're having to stop and wait whilst the already stretched fire service send all available firefighters to a hoax call diverting them from real life saving oh and Mrs. Jones, don't keep pushing unless baby jones fancies making an appearance in the car-park. It's just that someone wanted a McDonalds happy meal and so they disrupted the whole hospital, every emergency service for 20 miles around and put countless lives at risk.

 

Do you want a fruit bag or fries with that?

My views are my own and are not representative of any organisation. if you've found my post helpful please click on the star below.

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Yeah, sod everyone else - Roaringmouse is stamping their feet and wants to play outside.

 

Halfway through delicate surgery Mr. Smith? Sorry, but we're having to stop and wait whilst the already stretched fire service send all available firefighters to a hoax call diverting them from real life saving oh and Mrs. Jones, don't keep pushing unless baby jones fancies making an appearance in the car-park. It's just that someone wanted a McDonalds happy meal and so they disrupted the whole hospital, every emergency service for 20 miles around and put countless lives at risk.

 

Do you want a fruit bag or fries with that?

 

 

Spot on! Not to mention the oxygen supplies that get disconnected! So patients reliant on O2 are now gasping while ward staff struggle to get enough portable O2 tanks to them - while starting to evacuate the ward !

 

Roaring mouse you clearly are a selfish person whom thinks only of one self ! Do some volunteer work in a hospital when there is a fire alert or training evac and you will see how pathetic and selfish your comment is.

 

 

You could quite easily call the police from a phone on the ward or ask someone to call on your behalf no ?

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Guest roaringmouse

Well there you go then. A sensible answer form a sensible person or two.

 

My original suggestion was meant in jest, but as people were so keen to jump all over me I thought I would ramp it up a peg or two.

 

OF COURSE you don't set of a fire alarm. Did you REALLY take that seriously???????

 

The ward is probably locked for a very good reason. But if the person has been deemed fit to manage at home that does NOT mean they are deemed fit to wander around the hospital.

 

Instead of asking halfwits like me and many others on a public forum for advise, why not talk with the hospital itself. The comments about PALS I found interesting as I have always found them to be exceptionally helpful.

 

Apologies if my 'advise' offended. It was meant to be tongue in cheek.

 

I will take myself away from the forum now.

 

Whoever is in admin, kindly delete my account.

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PALS, as ever, are acting as the Hospital excuses department, I have never known PALS to act as anything other than a "PATIENTS ARE ALWAYS WRONG" section, but they have to be gone through before access is given to the higher levels of the complaints procedure.

 

The hospital have not gone through the Deprivation of Liberty procedure, I am not aware of any other lawful route that they could have gone down to be able to lock him up?

 

 

Are you sure the hospital wont have put a Dols on him, when my friends hubby was in hospital they put one on him without telling her, he has dementia and was in hospital to unblock his bowels, they kept lying to her saying they were waiting for a consultant to discharge him, then he had high BP and then excuse after excuse, turns out they had got SS involved and were waiting for a meeting with them, my friend is her husbands carer, she has excellent support from her family and there was no reason to put a care plan in action (which is what they were doing).

 

 

Why didn't they tell her they had put a Dols on him because they didn't have to and because only they and SS were qualified to know and act on his best interests his wife of 40 years apparently had no say and couldn't possibly know what was in his best interests..

 

 

Have a read of this it will explain what is and is not a Dols and who makes the decision and how it can be challenged

http://www.ageuk.org.uk/Documents/EN-GB/Factsheets/FS62_Deprivation_of_Liberty_Safeguards_fcs.pdf?dtrk=true

 

 

If it were a member of my family I would be kicking up a fuss and demanding answers it does look like they are putting a care plan in place and have got SS involved

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Well there you go then. A sensible answer form a sensible person or two.

 

My original suggestion was meant in jest, but as people were so keen to jump all over me I thought I would ramp it up a peg or two.

 

OF COURSE you don't set of a fire alarm. Did you REALLY take that seriously???????

 

The ward is probably locked for a very good reason. But if the person has been deemed fit to manage at home that does NOT mean they are deemed fit to wander around the hospital.

 

Instead of asking halfwits like me and many others on a public forum for advise, why not talk with the hospital itself. The comments about PALS I found interesting as I have always found them to be exceptionally helpful.

 

Apologies if my 'advise' offended. It was meant to be tongue in cheek.

 

I will take myself away from the forum now.

 

Whoever is in admin, kindly delete my account.

 

No need to delete. Just don't log in. Your replies overall since you joined have been very concerning and would put the poster in much more trouble. Especially when you're telling them to break the law

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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