Locked ward

[my-spirit-soars-free]

A member of my family is in an NHS hospital. He has had a stroke that means he struggles to recognise places.

 

He has been assessed as having capacity, and wants to go home, so he is being discharged to living alone, carers coming in a couple of times a day, but basically, free to go where he wishes.

 

However, until all the carers etc can be sorted he is being kept on a locked ward, and the staff will not let him leave the ward.

 

Surely this is false imprisonment, if he has capacity they can't imprison him?

 

They have also said things like "you have to have a key safe fitted before we allow you home", and told him that he can't discharge himself.

 

Not that I want him to discharge himself, but surely, if he has the capacity to make the decision to be discharged into the community he has capacity to go down to the hospital shop to buy a packet of smarties?

 

 

What can I do? Surely they can't do this?

[Consumer dude]

Perhaps if he wants to leave, he should attempt to leave and see if he is prevented from doing so..

[renegadeimp]

Unless its a secure mental health issue, then they cant stop a patient from leaving.

[my-spirit-soars-free]

The ward is kept locked, only the staff can open the doors, and they refuse when he asks.

 

 

When I visit I can only leave if the staff let me out, it is really horrible...

 

 

It is an elderly medicine ward, so not mental health as such.

[BazzaS]

The ward is kept locked, only the staff can open the doors, and they refuse when he asks.

 

 

When I visit I can only leave if the staff let me out, it is really horrible...

 

 

It is an elderly medicine ward, so not mental health as such.

 

It may be horrible to have to be let out by the staff, but it is necessary for SOME patients, (those who are confused and who aren't competent to decide to leave, who may otherwise 'wander)', so it isn't uncommon to find this, for their safety.

 

That doesn't mean it should be used to prevent the competent leaving, though!.

Have you discussed this with the ward sister, or his Care of the Elderly Physician (Consultant)?. It may be worth clarifying if they have concerns for his safety, if there is a deliberate policy, or if it is some over-zealous junior member of staff!.

 

Once you know they don't have grounds, then there are 3 options, in increasing levels of "impact":

 

1) You ask to leave, and he goes with you. You can go to the shop together, and he can return to the ward if he wants.

2) Arrange for a member of PALS to be with him when he asks to leave the ward. If they refuse, the member of PALS can advocate for him, if he isn't detained, and is competent to decide to leave. If they don't have grounds to detain him it is unlikely they'll decline when faced with a member of the hospital's own PALS team acting as an advocate ....

3) When they refuse to open the door for him, you or he tell them you will ask for the police to be called as he is being falsely imprisoned........ (I'd suggest being sure that he isn't being lawfully detained before this one!).

[my-spirit-soars-free]

PALS, as ever, are acting as the Hospital excuses department, I have never known PALS to act as anything other than a "PATIENTS ARE ALWAYS WRONG" section, but they have to be gone through before access is given to the higher levels of the complaints procedure.

 

The hospital have not gone through the Deprivation of Liberty procedure, I am not aware of any other lawful route that they could have gone down to be able to lock him up?

[Guest roaringmouse]

If he wants to leave, tell hi m to set of the fire alarm. That will unlock all doors automatically.

[2ltr16valve]

If he wants to leave, tell hi m to set of the fire alarm. That will unlock all doors automatically.

 

Reckless advise which could and would endanger lives if resulted in a evac !

[renegadeimp]

Reckless advise which could and would endanger lives if resulted in a evac !

 

And result in a criminal prosecution

[Guest roaringmouse]

Trust me. If I want to leave any building and they refuse to let me, I WILL set off the fire alarm. When the police arrive I would simply explain that they refused to let me leave.

 

Nonsense advise that setting off the fire alarm endangers life. It is specifically there to SAVE lives.

 

The kind of advise that a child is given when a bully smacks them in the mouth - don't hit back. No DO hit back, twice as hard.

[think about it]

Trust me. If I want to leave any building and they refuse to let me, I WILL set off the fire alarm. When the police arrive I would simply explain that they refused to let me leave.

 

Nonsense advise that setting off the fire alarm endangers life. It is specifically there to SAVE lives.

 

The kind of advise that a child is given when a bully smacks them in the mouth - don't hit back. No DO hit back, twice as hard.

 

Yeah, sod everyone else - Roaringmouse is stamping their feet and wants to play outside.

 

Halfway through delicate surgery Mr. Smith? Sorry, but we're having to stop and wait whilst the already stretched fire service send all available firefighters to a hoax call diverting them from real life saving oh and Mrs. Jones, don't keep pushing unless baby jones fancies making an appearance in the car-park. It's just that someone wanted a McDonalds happy meal and so they disrupted the whole hospital, every emergency service for 20 miles around and put countless lives at risk.

 

Do you want a fruit bag or fries with that?

[2ltr16valve]

Yeah, sod everyone else - Roaringmouse is stamping their feet and wants to play outside.

 

Halfway through delicate surgery Mr. Smith? Sorry, but we're having to stop and wait whilst the already stretched fire service send all available firefighters to a hoax call diverting them from real life saving oh and Mrs. Jones, don't keep pushing unless baby jones fancies making an appearance in the car-park. It's just that someone wanted a McDonalds happy meal and so they disrupted the whole hospital, every emergency service for 20 miles around and put countless lives at risk.

 

Do you want a fruit bag or fries with that?

 

 

Spot on! Not to mention the oxygen supplies that get disconnected! So patients reliant on O2 are now gasping while ward staff struggle to get enough portable O2 tanks to them - while starting to evacuate the ward !

 

Roaring mouse you clearly are a selfish person whom thinks only of one self ! Do some volunteer work in a hospital when there is a fire alert or training evac and you will see how pathetic and selfish your comment is.

 

 

You could quite easily call the police from a phone on the ward or ask someone to call on your behalf no ?

[Guest roaringmouse]

Well there you go then. A sensible answer form a sensible person or two.

 

My original suggestion was meant in jest, but as people were so keen to jump all over me I thought I would ramp it up a peg or two.

 

OF COURSE you don't set of a fire alarm. Did you REALLY take that seriously???????

 

The ward is probably locked for a very good reason. But if the person has been deemed fit to manage at home that does NOT mean they are deemed fit to wander around the hospital.

 

Instead of asking halfwits like me and many others on a public forum for advise, why not talk with the hospital itself. The comments about PALS I found interesting as I have always found them to be exceptionally helpful.

 

Apologies if my 'advise' offended. It was meant to be tongue in cheek.

 

I will take myself away from the forum now.

 

Whoever is in admin, kindly delete my account.

[Madamfluff]

PALS, as ever, are acting as the Hospital excuses department, I have never known PALS to act as anything other than a "PATIENTS ARE ALWAYS WRONG" section, but they have to be gone through before access is given to the higher levels of the complaints procedure.

 

The hospital have not gone through the Deprivation of Liberty procedure, I am not aware of any other lawful route that they could have gone down to be able to lock him up?

 

 

Are you sure the hospital wont have put a Dols on him, when my friends hubby was in hospital they put one on him without telling her, he has dementia and was in hospital to unblock his bowels, they kept lying to her saying they were waiting for a consultant to discharge him, then he had high BP and then excuse after excuse, turns out they had got SS involved and were waiting for a meeting with them, my friend is her husbands carer, she has excellent support from her family and there was no reason to put a care plan in action (which is what they were doing).

 

 

Why didn't they tell her they had put a Dols on him because they didn't have to and because only they and SS were qualified to know and act on his best interests his wife of 40 years apparently had no say and couldn't possibly know what was in his best interests..

 

 

Have a read of this it will explain what is and is not a Dols and who makes the decision and how it can be challenged

http://www.ageuk.org.uk/Documents/EN-GB/Factsheets/FS62_Deprivation_of_Liberty_Safeguards_fcs.pdf?dtrk=true

 

 

If it were a member of my family I would be kicking up a fuss and demanding answers it does look like they are putting a care plan in place and have got SS involved

[renegadeimp]

Well there you go then. A sensible answer form a sensible person or two.

 

My original suggestion was meant in jest, but as people were so keen to jump all over me I thought I would ramp it up a peg or two.

 

OF COURSE you don't set of a fire alarm. Did you REALLY take that seriously???????

 

The ward is probably locked for a very good reason. But if the person has been deemed fit to manage at home that does NOT mean they are deemed fit to wander around the hospital.

 

Instead of asking halfwits like me and many others on a public forum for advise, why not talk with the hospital itself. The comments about PALS I found interesting as I have always found them to be exceptionally helpful.

 

Apologies if my 'advise' offended. It was meant to be tongue in cheek.

 

I will take myself away from the forum now.

 

Whoever is in admin, kindly delete my account.

 

No need to delete. Just don't log in. Your replies overall since you joined have been very concerning and would put the poster in much more trouble. Especially when you're telling them to break the law