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    • Hi Sneezer and thanks for your Site Donation which is much needed and much appreciated.   The info from the "Solicitor" makes sense if you were complaining about how CRS came to have your contact details. However, this is not relevant to your case. You didn't cancel properly and carried on paying for a gym you didn't use.   For the future, see the Guide here about how to cancel a contract properly and avoid trouble - https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/383678-cancelling-your-gym-agreement-get-it-right/     Come back anytime to update us but don't worry about CRS or anyone else who makes demands. Let us know if you need more for advice and reassurance.    
    • They were communicating with lawyers associated to me too   They can’t serve a SD on your lawyers, only you.   As I said earlier - the lawyer stopped communicating  around the date on the SD they incorrectly served.  And the bank told me the receiver was now handling things and not to deal with them anymore.   The receiver never asked me where I was.  But he did email and I did reply or he did get auto reply.   Since I did have email communication with them - I don't think they could say they did everything possible to find me,  All they had to do was ask!  And then we could have discussed the situation.    It almost is the reverse - they did nothing to try find me.  And if a PI is employed to do surveillance then he must have realised only one person - the wrong one - lived at the  wrong address.   Does anyone have any info re post #26 and #28 above?   The property is being marketed for sale and the receiver is negotiating offers, so there was no reason for me to expect bank/ lawyers to be trying to locate me to serve any papers.      Surely any loss to them has to be proven upon an agreed sale.  It hasn't sold yet,   They may still get a high enough offer to prevent any large debt?  There could then be a different discussion re terms of repayment?   So I was not expecting anyone to be trying to find me!   But this is a bit of a digression from what  should I be doing NOW? Should I send them an SAR?  If they do intend to serve me correctly this would be useful, yes?   I am sure they have added all sorts of unnecessary costs to the debt that could be challenged?   Also there is a question over if they even had a valid notice of assignment?  They would have to produce that in the SAR wouldn't they?   This was a real query for me ages ago but it never got pursued legally.
    • Expect them to bring up every communication and claim that you’ve been dodging them / not providing them with an address to serve to.......
    • They have email and phone - and they could have asked/ emailed me?  The research I have done shows creditor's can use email to serve.   They never asked me where I moved to. The knew they made me homeless but they were regularly communicating other things by email - so they could have asked. They didnt.  No idea how they found the elderly relative. tbh - I don't have a fixed abode.  
    • Do they have an address for you?   if not, how are you expecting them to bring it to your attention? And / or serve it in person??
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Hi

I am asking for advice please. My husband who has worked at a company for 5 years is facing disciplinary hearing on Monday (I have been allowed to be his companion at this hearing as he is disabled).

He had an exemplary work record up til 2 weeks ago and is due to retire in January.

He felt he needed to bring a grievance against a colleague and attended a meeting with his line manager for an informal chat about this. His line manager came to the meeting with the HR person and together they bombarded/interrogated him about his grievance.

Can i say at this point he had not slept for the previous couple of nights due to serious health issues.

He did tell them he felt unwell and was indeed asked if he would like to adjourn the meeting. He declined that offer as he wasn't going to feel any better anytime soon.

The interrogation continued and he flipped. He didnt swear or direct his anger towards anything personal but shouted No, No, No and banged his fist on the table.

His line manager immediately burst into tears and left the room and in fact left the building for the day.

Fact finding statements have been taken and a disciplinary hearing is arranged as I said for Monday.

What i would like to know is does this constitute gross misconduct and would be a sackable offence?

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Is your husband in a union?

 

Do you have experience in employment law and disciplinary hearings? (That's not an implied criticism, just trying to get a feel for how much expertise your husband has available. It's difficult to be specific not knowing exactly what happened).

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No he isn't in a union and no i don't have any experience of employment law.

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Hello Sally, I'm sorry that you're both facing this.

 

Are you able to tell us a bit more about what disability your OH has please? It might help us to advise.

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Yes sure he has severe COPD and a finished bladder requiring him to have a suprapubic catheter in so has a leg bag attached. He has recurring bladder infections. Since April he has had bowel problems also and this week had large polyps removed on Monday. At the time this took place he didnt know whether he had bowel cancer and still doesnt know for a few more weeks if he has prostate cancer.

He has been in so much pain. Gets up at 3am to travel from the south to London everyday which is stressful in itself managing toilet needs on trains. The more stressed he gets the worse his COPD and asthma is. Work have made reasonable adjustments so that he never works past 3pm.

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That's a tough hand to be dealt, Sally, poor man. It sounds as if work are aware of the problems though if they've made reasonable adjustments.

 

Hopefully the guys here will help you formulate what to say on Monday.

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Tell your husband not to worry about gross misconduct.

Banging a fist on a table while saying "no, no,no" is not gross misconduct, otherwise I would be sacked everyday along with 90% of teachers in the world.

I'm surprised they're actually entertaining a disciplinary for this.

In my opinion, having seen many techniques from both sides of the fence, they're trying to switch the attention from the grievance to the fist banging with attached drama of bursting into tears and going on a pub crawl for the rest of the day.

They most likely planned this and provoked your husband to get a reaction.

Seen it many times.

I bet they'll offer to drop the matter if your husband withdraws the grievance.

It's a well known trick amongst managers,I refer to it as the three cups trick.

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As his grievance was against a senior leadership team member I'm in no doubt they were trying to push him to breaking point too. I'm also aware he shouldn't have reacted like he did as is he but i guess we all have our breaking points. They don't like having had to make adjustments to his working day and giving him a ground floor office to avoid stairs.

He isn't liked because he doesn't 'creep' and feels they have been looking for an excuse to get rid and he has played directly into their hands.

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What i would like also to know is what happens at these hearings?

I mean it's a bit weighted in their favour as there will be the manager, the HR woman who witnessed his outburst (as note taker), her deputy HR acting as per her instruction no doubt and my husband and myself.

The Manager has done all his fact finding, everyone has given statements so what more is there to say? They've obviously made their mind up of the outcome, which even if its some kind of warning which stays on his file, he's 64 and retiring in January and will be handing in his notice to retire in a few weeks as has to give 3 months.

What should I say if asked at this meeting?

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What i would like also to know is what happens at these hearings?

I mean it's a bit weighted in their favour as there will be the manager, the HR woman who witnessed his outburst (as note taker), her deputy HR acting as per her instruction no doubt and my husband and myself.

The Manager has done all his fact finding, everyone has given statements so what more is there to say? They've obviously made their mind up of the outcome, which even if its some kind of warning which stays on his file, he's 64 and retiring in January and will be handing in his notice to retire in a few weeks as has to give 3 months.

What should I say if asked at this meeting?

 

What are you expecting to be asked?.

 

If you are there as a note taker for your husband / to support him, should they be asking you anything?. You didn't witness the incident and aren't at the meeting in an 'official' e.g. union capacity, so I'm not sure they should be asking you anything?

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I was referring to this:-

 

The companion should be allowed to address the hearing to put and sum up the worker’s case, respond on behalf of the worker to any views expressed at the meeting and confer with the worker during the hearing.

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is he in an employers pension scheme? What about the company sick pay arrangements? If you get full pay for being ill and he is likley to get a pension in January I would be talking to the doctor about being signed off long term sick until then if I were him. As for further disciplinary meetings- well make them travel to your neck of the woods and meet at a local hotel with conference room for example. If they demur, play the disability discrimination reasonable adjustments card.

All they really want is to kick this into the long grass until after your hubby has gone without it appearing as a stain on their records. As long as he isnt losing money, let them get their way in this respect and take the time together.

If there is no sick pay scheme then we will need to know what the nature of the questioning was and see if there is anything in there that rings bells.

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He has only paid into the company pension scheme for a couple of years. He only gets 10 days sick leave entitlement per year. As this renews every 1st September he has only used 2 days for his operation he had this Monday/Tuesday.

It was touch and go whether they were going to let me attend on Monday as they said he was quite able to attend the investigation meeting on his own.

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Im happy to send copy of investigation findings via pm if it helps

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My gut feeling says to delay this disciplinary for as long as possible.

Tell them you're gathering doctors notes/documentation related to this incident.

Then a few days later go to the gp and make a 'non urgent ' appointment where you will discuss the incident and see if any medication could have mood swings as side effect (surely there's something).

Then the doctor will have to write a report, maybe a couple of weeks to do that.

Then your husband could use some sickness smartly positioned in two slots so to have a couple of empty days at work and two weeks off.

Then you could play with your availability and delay a bit more if necessary.

Overall you should get to the notice date with no hearing arranged yet.

I seriously doubt they'll sack someone due to retire.

At worst they'll put him on gardening duties if they really don't like him.

In any case, he doesn't need to give 3 months notice, he can give more.

3 months is the minimum notice required, but he could give notice 4 or 5 months in advance.

My colleague gave notice in may and he's retiring in January with one month notice required.

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Can you be dismissed if you have already given notice?

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Can you be dismissed if you have already given notice?

 

In theory yes, but they need a very good reason, for example theft.

They would be absolutely mad to dismiss your husband in his notice period for banging his fists on the table.

Surely they would not like to spend thousands in defending an employment tribunal claim against someone with a recognised medical condition who was about to retire.

This is all a set up to get the grievance withdrawn.

As said, it's the three cups trick: Confuse the eye and make it lose focus.

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He doesn't want to delay the hearing. (I would but then it's not me). It will stress him out more worrying but good point about mood swings with meds as 2 days before he had testosterone injection (which he has because of past testicular cancer). That does indeed make him short tempered!

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... good point about mood swings with meds as 2 days before he had testosterone injection (which he has because of past testicular cancer). That does indeed make him short tempered!

 

Two days before the banging on the table incident?

 

Did the employer know that?

 

Get medical evidence (eg letter from GP) to show that's a recognised side effect and present it to the disciplinary hearing

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Two days before the banging on the table incident?

 

Did the employer know that?

 

Get medical evidence (eg letter from GP) to show that's a recognised side effect and present it to the disciplinary hearing

 

No, employer doesn't know that and we won't get a letter by gp before 9.30am Monday. I will make sure its brought up. We can still appeal so would have it before that happened.

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Definitely mention the testosterone and get evidence from gp.

Testosterone most known side effect is increased aggression.

That's his get out card.

By the way, is your husband registered disable?

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Definitely mention the testosterone and get evidence from gp.

Testosterone most known side effect is increased aggression.

That's his get out card.

By the way, is your husband registered disable?

 

He doesn't receive disability payment as works full time but does have a blue badge because of his breathing problems with COPD and asthma because he cannot walk very far

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He doesn't receive disability payment as works full time but does have a blue badge because of his breathing problems with COPD and asthma because he cannot walk very far

 

Is he registered disabled with gp and work?

Note that having special arrangements at work doesn't necessarily mean that he is down as disabled.

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Is he registered disabled with gp and work?

Note that having special arrangements at work doesn't necessarily mean that he is down as disabled.

 

for employment law purposes only an ET will decide if he is disabled; if work are aware of his conition this is enough

 

I do dislike ths idea of a giant register somewhere - very 1984. The world is somewhat more progrssive these days.

 

Sally, I would go for

- I do admit I was perhaps overy assertive; the reasons why are a) I felt I was not being taken seriously or listeed to and b) my treatment

- however my original greivance still stands

- I have a few months left to work and am not terribley well; would you like to come to an arrangement that suits us both?

 

What does he want the outcome to be, is he clear? I think you need that in your mind first, and we can advise if it is realistic.


Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!

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