Family loan repayment dispute

[Jasperj]

Ideally I am looking for a suitable company for representing me, I have to reply to the court by Wednesday

 

My inlaws loaned my wife and myself several large sums of money over a period in the noughties largely to assist us when clients did not pay their bills to us

None of these loans have any written documentation attached regarding amount, term or repayment

The only verbal agreements were that they would be repaid as and when we were in a position to be able to do so

My wife looked after all of our financial affairs as I worked ridiculous hours, often away from home, to try to resolve our situation.

Sadly my wife passed away in 2014 after a medical mishap that is currently the subject of a legal investigation

Prior to this my understanding was that the only repayments to my inlaws were in respect of a car loan that was taken out on our behalf, although they have claimed verbally that other repayments have been made

Since my wife's passing my in laws have pursued me to place a charge on mine and my children's home that I have refused.

I have since received 3 solicitors letters relating to these loans over the last few months culminating in a county court claim

They claim repayment on the entire loan amount plus interest at 8% per annum on the basis they claim that I am in default.

 

I do not understand how I can be in default as for one there is no repayment schedule and I have at no time been in a position to make a repayment, my wife would have done so previously when our household income was considerably more (at least double and occasionally three fold when I didn't have to consider the day to day needs of my children) than recently when in April my regular payments ceased, I am currently without income and seeking benefits...

 

Other than the car loan which they itemise separately no repayments have been made to my knowledge, does that mean that this mean, excepting the car loan, they are statute barred in any event to prevent this raising its head again.

 

Any recommendations would be really appreciated

 

I don't believe that they have a case as on the basis there is no written agreement for repayment so how could I be in default but I do not know any case law to refute their claim

 

Not that I want to pursue this route but where is my wife's responsibility to repay these loans. I have never disputed that some loans were made to us as if and when the opportunity arises I would like to make repayments

 

I do not expect there to be any future relationship between myself and my former in-laws therefore that is not a consideration

[shamrocker]

Sorry to hear of your predicament. I would probably just let them issue court proceedings and see how they wish to validate their claim.

[Jasperj]

Hi Shamrocker

 

They have already issued court proceeding and I have to admit to sticking my head in the sand a little as I feel pretty depressed about the whole situation, it has had the two week extension that will expire on Wednesday.

 

However I do need to reply to the court whether directly or via a solicitor asap

[shamrocker]

Ok... yes, you do need to get moving on this. Have you acknowledged the claim via MCOL website?

 

Can you post up the Particulars of Claim, minus any identifiable information? Also, what is the issue date of the claim?

[Jasperj]

Hi Shamrocker

 

Sorry I missed your post before... parent duties to attend to...

 

How do you want the particulars of the claim...? I can scan them no problem and obviously redact all id... is that ok or too much

[shamrocker]

Just type them out here....that's probably quicker.

[Jasperj]

Between 2004 & 2012 I and my wife (deceased) borrowed various sums of money to discharge various liabilities including an alleged ccj (really a threat of) against myself and my father (joint and several liabilities) for which they have supplied a separate document that states this was to prevent me receiving a ccj, money for a car loan taken out on our behalf and to assist in some building work

They are claiming interest

Whilst my wife was alive and without my knowledge some repayments were made to the general loans plus I was aware of payments towards the car loan and they have itemised each loan separately. They also highlight that I had continued to make payments for the car until oct 2015, after which I fell ill and had a stroke which I was told was most likely due to continued stress and exhaustion due to lack of sleep worrying.

" The Claimants seek full reimbursement of all interest incurred by them and to compensate them for the loss of interest on monies loaned to us at the rate shown on their loan breakdown until December 2015. They are then claiming statutory interest on the outstanding balance pursuant to section 69 county courts act 1984 on the basis the defendant is in default of the agreement to repay..."

 

The claimants claim sum of £xx,xxx thousand

 

The claimants claim statutary interest in addition

 

My side my thoughts are

 

I have not denied any loan was made

There was no formal repayment agreement, only that repayments would be made when we were in a position to do so

I am not in default as there was no formal loan agreement to default upon

Does Statute barring apply in this instance as all but three (of 12) of the loans listed show as no activity since 2010, one of which is the car.

As far as I am concerned the repayments will be made as and when I am able to do so, but currently I am out of work and since my wife died I have regularly been below half of that when she was alive, so therefore I am unable to make any comitment

[AndyOrch]

Thread moved to General Legal issues.

 

Hi Jasperj and Welcome to CAG.

 

As already advised its important to follow the process and acknowledge service of the claim within the given time frame. You have 33 days in total 19 days to AoS from and including the date on the Claim Form.Should you wish to defend the claim in full you then get a further 14 days to submit any defence.If the Claim is from Northampton CCBC you can register to use their online service MCOL to acknowledge service and submit your defence....details are contained within the response pack.

 

The Particulars you have posted above ...are they verbatim ? you have not added anything?

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Jasperj]

Hi Andy/shamrocker

 

I have a redacted pdf copy of the particulars now... how do I attach the file to send you?

 

regards

 

jasper

[AndyOrch]

Upload it to your thread here...

 

**you can post up images/letters by this method immediately. You don't need 10 posts**

.

set your default scan page size to A4 less than 300DPI [150 will do]

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets - as a picture[jpg] file

don't forget you can use a mobile phone or a digital camera too!!

'

BUT......

ENSURE: remove all pers info inc. barcodes etc

but leave all monetary figures and dates.

.

************************* ************************* *******

{DO NOT USE A BIRO OR PEN OR USE SEE THRU TAPE OR LABELS]

************************* ************************* ***********

.

DO IT IN MSPAINT.EXE or any photo editing program

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites ...

http://freejpgtopdf.com/

..

if you have multiple scans/pics

put them in a word doc FIRST and convert that to PDF

or http://www.freepdfconvert.com/

or

use http://www.pdfmerge.com

 

convert existing PC files to PDF [office has an installable print to PDF option]

..

it would be better to upload a multi-page pdf if

you have many images too rather than many single pdfs

.

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

try and logically name your file so people know what it is.

though dont use full bank names or CAG in the title

i'e Default notice DD -mm-yyyy TSB

.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

...

YOU DONT have to put a link to the attachment in the msg box. Just upload it

[Jasperj]

Hi Andy

 

Hopefully you can now see the uploads

 

Jasper

Particulars - redacted.pdf

[AndyOrch]

Rather a considerable lot of lendings.....do I detect hostility since your late wife's passing hence the demand for repayment ? Is there a particular reason for this breakdown in relationship which may effect your defence response?

The loans were given in good faith on the assumption that you (you and your wife) would pay back when clients monies were received.

 

Looking at the list of monies I fail to understand the " From and to dates " ?

One particular Loan does not have a " to date " ?

 

Was interest ever mentioned at the time of the lending? Was a start and finish date ever mentioned? Was you aware they were borrowing on credit cards to lend to you ?

 

Andy

[Jasperj]

There does appear to have been some hostility I think brought about by my refusal to allow them to place a charge on my house... the reason they described was as a favor to me that if my building society decided to foreclose on my mortgage it would prevent them doing so... I do not believe that this would have been possible anyway as I guess that the building soc. have first charge on my property.

 

In addition they had caused a lot of conflict via their daughter prior to her death that had the effect my family was prevented access to my children encouraged by my mother in law and they wish to retain some level of "control" over me and my actions going forwards.

 

My in-laws loaned us money from wherever they deemed was the most suitable source for them at that time to be repaid as and when we had funds available to do so with no specific end dates

 

Dates... I guess that these are the dates that they made payments to us as the one without a "to date" was one specific payment

 

I do not recall interest being discussed by them at any time, however I do remember having a conversation with my wife where I said that when we did eventually repay I expected to pay them for loss of interest.

 

There was never any end date discussed until this solicitor became involved after my wife's death

 

I was aware that they were using credit cards, but understood they were moving from one interest free deal to another as they were freely available at the time

 

I have every intention of making payments when my personal affairs allow me to do so

 

Jasper

[Jasperj]

Andy

 

Going by the dates that they state, would that mean that the majority of these loans are Statute Barred in any event as they have listed them as separate loans.

 

I say this only to prevent them persuing them in the courts, to prevent this in the future and return to the original basis for repayment

 

I suppose my argument being that surely without any written agreement surely they cannot just stamp their feet and demand full payment as they appear to be doing

 

Jasper

[AndyOrch]

Andy

 

Going by the dates that they state, would that mean that the majority of these loans are Statute Barred in any event as they have listed them as separate loans.

 

I say this only to prevent them persuing them in the courts, to prevent this in the future and return to the original basis for repayment

 

I suppose my argument being that surely without any written agreement surely they cannot just stamp their feet and demand full payment as they appear to be doing

 

Jasper

 

It would indeed.....only loans within 6 years of the claim date can be pursued assuming that you have made no payment or acknowledgement for a period of 6 years on the void ones.

[Jasperj]

Would I be correct in placing my defense something along the lines of

"

I am grateful for all of the assistance my in-laws have given us over the years

 

Not denying any responsibility for loans given as loans x,y,z... are statute barred they therefore cannot be pursued in the courts

There was at no time an end date discussed nor any written agreements for the expiration of any loans therefore they cannot suddenly claim I am in default and demand repayment and/or place a charge on my property

"

 

Jasper

Edited September 27, 2016 by Jasperj

[*RainbowTears*]

Whilst I can't offer any help with regards to the court proceedings you are facing, I didn't want to just read & run.

 

I do find it extremely sad that after your wife died, instead of you all coming together as a family to grieve & support each other, that your in-laws have taken this opportunity to take you to court for money lent to you both.

 

Would they have taken this same course if your wife was still alive now? As if not & that they hadn't done so at anytime since 2004 then why now?

 

I truly wish you all the best....

[Guest roaringmouse]

This is very interesting (no pun intended) and I was shocked by the amount involved.

 

My first thought is that unless you were making regular payments following a set amount agreed on the first loan, then they were wrong to make further loans.

 

Were the loans to you, your wife, joint? What was the agreement on any loan in the event of one person passing away?

 

One by one, what was the agreed (written ideally or verbal otherwise) schedule for repayment? If (as I suspect) the agreement was to repay ''when I am in a position to do so'' then you are not in default if you are not in a position to do so!

 

You can only be in default if you have a schedule (agreement to pay £x per month on the 1st of each month until loan is repaid etc) and you subsequently fail to meet those payments. If there was no schedule then there is no default.

 

Because of the amounts involved I would NOT reply to the summons, but immediately get a solicitor involved as I think you may be able to walk away from this completely, but if you trip yourself up and acknowledge the loands in a reply to the court you may open a can of worms. GET A SOLICITOR THIS MORNING to ask the court for an extension of 28 days.

[Guest roaringmouse]

QUICK UPDATE. I do not belive the loans are legally enforceable in court.

 

Any contract has to have certain parameters. In the case of a loan there MUST be a date of the loan being made. ie, £1000 borrowed on January1 2013 etc. In your case, the loans do not have a date but a range of dates, feb 04 (what year?????) to April 10 (what year??????). Is that February 2004? February 4th?

 

Also, the second loan was not repaid. Knowing that you had not repaid they subsequently went on to lend you many more loans. This shows financial wrecklessness in the knowledge that you could not pay, they lent you more thus encouraging you instead of saying no like a bank would.

 

Do they have any background in the financial sector? They certainly do not know how to fill out a claim form.

 

This claim would be thrown out of court simply because the claimant has not specified any period for any loan. GET A SOLICITOR now!

[Jasperj]

Thank you all for your help

 

Does anyone know of a solicitor that has a background in this kind of issue, I've tried locally but without any joy

[honeybee13]

Thank you all for your help

 

Does anyone know of a solicitor that has a background in this kind of issue, I've tried locally but without any joy

 

It's against forum rules to recommend lawyers I'm afraid. Try the Law Society's website, they have a Find a Solicitor function that tells you the ones in your area with the right skills.

 

HB

[AndyOrch]

This is very interesting (no pun intended) and I was shocked by the amount involved.

 

My first thought is that unless you were making regular payments following a set amount agreed on the first loan, then they were wrong to make further loans.

 

Were the loans to you, your wife, joint? What was the agreement on any loan in the event of one person passing away?

 

One by one, what was the agreed (written ideally or verbal otherwise) schedule for repayment? If (as I suspect) the agreement was to repay ''when I am in a position to do so'' then you are not in default if you are not in a position to do so!

 

You can only be in default if you have a schedule (agreement to pay £x per month on the 1st of each month until loan is repaid etc) and you subsequently fail to meet those payments. If there was no schedule then there is no default.

 

Because of the amounts involved I would NOT reply to the summons, but immediately get a solicitor involved as I think you may be able to walk away from this completely, but if you trip yourself up and acknowledge the loans in a reply to the court you may open a can of worms. GET A SOLICITOR THIS MORNING to ask the court for an extension of 28 days.

 

You must respond to the court summons and acknowledge service of claim by the required date...otherwise the claimant will get a default judgment...responding to the court summons has no bearing on acknowledgment of any debt.

You get 33 days in total anyway if you intend to defend the whole claim...so no need to ask the court to do anything.

 

This does not require any Legal representation...you can simply deal with it yourself.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Guest roaringmouse]

Doesn't need to be local. Just google for a solicitor that deals with finance or loans. Everything can be done via email/letter after initial telephone conversation. Most solicitors will offer a free initial consultation, but ASK about that before going any further.

[AndyOrch]

Just to reiterate.....

 

This does not require any Legal representation...you can simply deal with it yourself.

 

Your in enough debt already.

 

Andy

[Guest roaringmouse]

Andy, I meant not responding to the court without a solicitors advise. I browsed through the details above and was not aware of the tightness of time in this case. Yes, you are absolutely correct that you must acknowledge the claim within the 14 days if you intend to defend, I meant not submitting any information until speaking with a solicitor.

 

To clarify, do acknowledge you wish to defend. BUT do not submit any defense or details until you speak with a solicitor.