Defrauded by bank transfer by a Barclay's customer - should I sue?

[mickrick]

I was taken by a confidence trickster on Gumtree last week to the tune of £730.

they got me to transfer the money to a Barclays account and used a passport and Barclay's account statement to establish that he was bonafide.

 

 

A few days after the money was transferred, I got an email from Gumtree to say that this person was a fraudster.

 

I contacted Action Fraud (which only seems to be a way for the police to do absolutely nothing about fraud),

my own bank, Santander (who told me as I had willingly paid the money, I couldn't claim from them)

and Barclays, from whom I have just had an out-of-office email reply.

 

First things first

- how is bank transfer fraud and different from credit card fraud?

In both cases the money is paid willingly, yet you are covered when you are defrauded by credit card.

 

The next thing is,

how could Barclays have allowed this criminal to open and operate an account with them.

If the details he gave me are as a result of identity theft, then the bank should know this.

 

 

Anyone who opens a bank account has to supply personal details which the bank has to check vigorously to ensure they are legitimate. So as far as I'm concerned, Barclays hasn't done enough to ensure I was not a victim of fraud by one of their customers.

 

So would it be feasible to sue Barclays to have my money repaid, based on these reasons?

[fkofilee]

Quite simply no...

 

Credit Cards are covered by Section 75 etc etc but bank transfers are not.

My brother was hit by a fraudster on the exact same site and lost out on £150.

 

It was gumtree who sent the email to you about the person being a fraudster. How do you know its ID Fraud? The person could be a genuine Barclays customer but could have done this in deceit.

All you know at this point is that they have taken your money.

 

DPA prevents Barclays from releasing customer details to you (Even if you already know them)... What was this for anyway?

[fkofilee]

Although for whats it worth you can make an official complaint to your bank about the transfer and Barclays too, but at the preset time, both banks are not responsible for the loss.

[mickrick]

I don't have any facts to support the identity theft, but the person who did this would have to be a bit short in the brains department if they used their own personal details to open a bank account and then use it for fraudulent purposes. At the very least he'd receive a hefty fine, and/or a prison sentence depending on how much and how many people he'd defrauded.

 

It was for a professional drone for aerial photography and video. It wasn't even as if it was an amazing price either, just what the going rate would be for a 2nd hand one.

[fkofilee]

Understandably, losing money that youve paid for etc is hard enough.

 

Your only real option is to complain. but both banks are not liable in this case.

You could also try legal action?

[mickrick]

Thats what I was wondering. Would it be feasible on the grounds that Barclays didn't do enough to protect me from fraud by one of its customers?

[fkofilee]

No... Because once again you do not know if this is ID Fraud or not. Barclays are the receiving bank, and under DPA would NOT release information pertaining to someone else or there account details.

There isnt much you can do... Although you can ask your bank to attempt to recover funds, but its not guaranteed.

[slick132]

Hi Mick,

 

I agree with Fkofilee. It would be extremely hard for you to prove that Barclays failed to exercise due diligence in giving an a/c to their customer. And Barclays really have no contract with you. Your own bank is primarily responsible to you.

 

1. Did you meet the seller to inspect the ID doc'ts or was it done by email.

 

2. Did you receive the drone and it was not what was described or expected, or did you receive nothing.

 

3. Have you complained to your bank seeking a refund of the transferred funds.

 

If the answer to 3 is NO, I would complain to your bank in writing immediately but keep it brief and factual. Don't fire accusations at everyone - just say you have been told by Gumtree that you're the victim of fraud and you want your bank to recover funds from the seller's bank.

 

Get proof of posting when writing to your bank.

 

[mickrick]

Let me address the comments both of you have made:

 

The reason I am asking if I could sue Barclays would be reliant on whether they had made enough effort to ascertain that someone opening an account with them was who they said they were. If they had used fake or stolen documents etc and Barclays hadn't made the necessary checks, they would have failed in their duty of care to anyone conducting business with this person. As you have both said, I don't have any evidence that this was the case and the bank is under no obligation to me.

 

However, I have only just learned in the past couple of hours that Which? has opened a super complaint against the banks for exactly this reason - that they cover people who have suffered as a result of credit card fraud, but not bank transfer fraud. What will come as a result of this is anyone's guess, but it does make sense as far as I'm concerned.

 

I received the [problematic] "details" by email. My bank has confirmed that the account I made the payment to was a Barclays account, but they haven't confirmed whether or not the person I paid the money to was the person named on the documents. My bank has agreed that this was extremely elaborate as more than one pice of plausible identification for the same person was produced. So either it was the same person on the documents who stole my money or they were able to get hold of someone else's documents, or the documents were faked.

 

I never received the drone. And yes, I have complained to my bank but have been told that I was not covered as I willingly parted with the money. They also told me to put it behind me and consider myself lucky that it wasn't a lot more. Which is exactly what I would expect them to do the next time they get defrauded as well.

 

So everything is up in the air at the minute. I suppose that this week will see a fresh round of calls and emails from my bank, Barclays and Action Fraud.

[fkofilee]

Mickrick...

 

Trust me you could sue Barclays but they are not at fault here... I think you should take this a lesson and be careful next time.

I get where you are coming from i genuinely do... And I wish we could be of some help. But Barclays are not at fault.

 

FKO

[slick132]

Hi Mick,

 

And yes, I have complained to my bank but have been told that I was not covered as I willingly parted with the money. They also told me to put it behind me and consider myself lucky that it wasn't a lot more.

 

Was your complaint to the bank in writing ?

 

Was the response above their actual words or your summary ?

 

If you haven't yet put the bank complaint in writing, you should do so, and tell them you require their written reply.

 

Same for Action Fraud.

 

[mickrick]

That is almost exactly word for word what the bloke from Santander's security team told me on the phone when I called them to report the [problem].

 

 

I really don't see any point in trying to pin the blame on Santander as all they did was provide me with the means to transfer the money.

 

 

In an ideal world I would still say it is Barclays which is at fault for facilitating the fraud by allowing a criminal to open an account with them.

 

 

I would put money on its (if I had any left to put on it) that the [problem]mer used stolen or falsified documents to open the account and that he wasn't who he said he was, something which Barclays should have detected had its security procedures been stringent enough.

 

s-super-complaint-453196/"]This is the link to Which?'s site outlining the reasons for its "super complaint".

 

 

Hopefully soon the banks will start to cover victims of bank transfer fraud, just as it does for victims of direct debit and credit card fraud. There really is no legitimate reason why they don't already.

[king12345]

Action fraud will take months just to send you a template letter.

Your best bet would be to find a pro-active local copper who takes ownership of the case and goes to Barclays to get the fraudster address.

They can then visit this lowlife and hopefully he's stupid enough to be the person on the passport living at the registered address.

However, these fraudster usually are people who used to live in uk and now are abroad, the [problem] people and then withdraw money from abroad.

If this is the case, even though the passport is genuine, you will not be able to do anything.

[mickrick]

Action fraud will take months just to send you a template letter.

Your best bet would be to find a pro-active local copper who takes ownership of the case and goes to Barclays to get the fraudster address. If this is the case, even though the passport is genuine, you will not be able to do anything.

 

Yeah, Action Fraud is about as useful as a chocolate teapot. Just give him a CRN and move on to the next one.

 

Coincidentally, I was watching Rip-Off Britain just now and it was all about bank account fraud. I couldn't watch anymore after about the first ten minutes, I was so incensed.

 

The biggest problem I have is that I live in Belfast,while the fraudster's address (real or otherwise) is in Loughborough. So it would be pretty hard for me to get a local police officer on the case. The best I can hope for in the short term is if there was any money left in the account before he had a chance to empty it, which is clutching at straws. Even if there were, it would be shared out among all of his victims and I'm not kidding myself that I was the only person he preyed on.

[renegadeimp]

That is almost exactly word for word what the bloke from Santandericon's security team told me on the phone when I called them to report the [problem].

 

And theres your problem. Put it in writing and its guaranteed theyll never say that. The phone reps are NOT trained or qualified to give out such advice. Thats why you need to put thing in writing so they go to people who are.

[king12345]

Yeah, Action Fraud is about as useful as a chocolate teapot. Just give him a CRN and move on to the next one.

 

Coincidentally, I was watching Rip-Off Britain just now and it was all about bank account fraud. I couldn't watch anymore after about the first ten minutes, I was so incensed.

 

The biggest problem I have is that I live in Belfast,while the fraudster's address (real or otherwise) is in Loughborough. So it would be pretty hard for me to get a local police officer on the case. The best I can hope for in the short term is if there was any money left in the account before he had a chance to empty it, which is clutching at straws. Even if there were, it would be shared out among all of his victims and I'm not kidding myself that I was the only person he preyed on.

 

The local police officer can obtain the fraudster address from Barclays and then contact the closest police station to that address to visit and possibly arrest them.

The greatest problem is to find an officer who would take ownership of the case.

In my experience they see loss of money as a very low priority and most times they say that it's a civil matter.

It might be different in Ireland, but in London they are really too stretched to deal with people being defrauded.

Wrong, but that's the way it is.

[slick132]

Hi Mick,

 

That is almost exactly word for word what the bloke from Santander's security team told me on the phone when I called them to report the [problem].

 

I really don't see any point in trying to pin the blame on Santander as all they did was provide me with the means to transfer the money.

 

We understand you're hacked off about this but we're suggesting how you can have a better chance of tackling the situation. We're aware of the Super Complaint being made by Which? but this is unlikely to assist you directly in getting your money back.

 

It's not about "trying to pin the blame on Santander". The only chance you have of redress through the bank system is via your OWN bank as you have no contract with Barclays. When you complain to Santander, they will raise the matter via the banks' internal systems and discuss it with Barclays. I'm not saying you'll definitely get your money bank by this means but it's your only option at this stage (apart from the suggestion made by King12345).

 

If you rely on the phone to complain you will get nowhere. Unless and until you put a formal complaint in writing, you stand no chance of getting redress.