What are smart meters ?

[Consumer dude]

What are smart meters and do I have to have one ?..

[unclebulgaria67]

See this link

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/smart-meters-how-they-work

 

Looks like at some point by 2020, they will be installed. Because you don't own the meter, i am not sure you can say you don't want one. They will just write to you at some point saying it will be installed.

[Bazooka Boo]

There's no legal obligation to have these meters fitted at all, it's just the energy companies who have been told to roll them out to all homes by 2020, if you don't want one, which I don't, then when your energy company writes to you to say they would like to fit one, tell them you don't want one and they'll take you off the installation list.

[unclebulgaria67]

As a matter of interest, what are the disadvantages of having a smart meter ?

[havinastella]

As a matter of interest, what are the disadvantages of having a smart meter ?

 

The energy company knowing when you use the most and increasing tariffs at that time.

[Bazooka Boo]

The energy company knowing when you use the most and increasing tariffs at that time.

 

Data sharing which will undoubtedly lead to data breaches.

[*RainbowTears*]

As a matter of interest, what are the disadvantages of having a smart meter ?

 

I've got a smart meter with BG & I've had it since late last year.

 

So far no disadvantages at all. It just sits there & I can see what I use on a daily/weekly/monthly basis.

 

I will say though, that before having the smart meter I used to pay £101 electric & £55 gas by DD every month.

 

After having the SM for approx 6 months BG changed my DD to £60 electric & £20 gas per month. Which is an amazing £76 a month saving...

 

And that's for a large detached 4 bed house!

 

I highly recommend them based on my own experience.

[ericsbrother]

they will also be able to turn off your gas and leccy remotely so in the event of a national crisis they will decide who gets fuel and who doesnt.

As for rainbow tears positive experience- my parents had one installed and BG upped their DD from £25 to £100 per month when they were £900 in credit already. This coincided with dad telling BG they were off elsewhere because of the higher tariff from BG than almost any other supplier. Mother is now worried they will cut off the gas out of spite!

[unclebulgaria67]

Perhaps this is a debate that we need to have on CAG. If these meters are being installed in most homes before 2020, people need to know what is happening out there now.

 

This could be CAG's next campaigning issue, if it is true that energy suppliers will automatically increase DD's based on smart meter readings they can obtain at any point.

 

Also turning off Gas or Electric remotely is potentially dangerous ?

[AndyOrch]

Perhaps this is a debate that we need to have on CAG. If these meters are being installed in most homes before 2020, people need to know what is happening out there now.

 

This could be CAG's next campaigning issue, if it is true that energy suppliers will automatically increase DD's based on smart meter readings they can obtain at any point.

 

Also turning off Gas or Electric remotely is potentially dangerous ?

 

Excellent Idea Uncle......do you wish to continue here or would this be better placed in the Bear Garden?

 

Andy

[king12345]

Aren't these meters emitting high pulse signals every minute?

I remember reading of a study saying that they could be dangerous for the nervous system

[Mr.P]

Aren't these meters emitting high pulse signals every minute?

I remember reading of a study saying that they could be dangerous for the nervous system

 

Many will be using conventional cell phone networks to send data back to the supplier and also a low powered WiFi signal to communicate with a display module. Whilst these signals will be a high frequency, the power emitted will be harmless.

 

There have been claims that WiFi and cell phone signals are dangerous, but these have been debunked by many peer reviewed reports. The tin foil hat brigade will still claim that there is a conspiracy in covering up data on the subject.

[unclebulgaria67]

Excellent Idea Uncle......do you wish to continue here or would this be better placed in the Bear Garden?

 

Andy

 

Not my thread and up to admin, but i think better in utilities as that is where those with knowledge on the subject will look to contribute.

 

I pay for my gas/elec quartely. I stopped DD, as i was regularly building up a significant credit on tbe account. If energy companies are going to start messing around with payment options because of smart meters, then consumers might decide the meters are not as helpful as they were told they would be.

[Mr.P]

There have been claims that WiFi and cell phone signals are dangerous, but these have been debunked by many peer reviewed reports. The tin foil hat brigade will still claim that there is a conspiracy in covering up data on the subject.

 

To follow up on the above, I came across a submission from the Stop Smart Meters Campaign group to a House of Commons inquiry back in May 2013 (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmselect/cmenergy/161/161vw107.htm).

The following quote piqued my interest:

9. Most “smart” meters from such common manufacturers such as GE, Landis & Gyr, Itron and Sensus emit pulsed spikes of microwave radiation approximately every five–10 seconds or more, 24 hours per day. Pacific Gas and Electric admitted to the California Public Utilities Commission that their electric smart meters can emit “up to 190,000” microwave pulses per day.2 Introducing a device that emits this number of radiation spikes directly into the living environments of millions of UK residents while such comprehensive records of health problems exist and the World Health Organization has classed such radiation a Class 2B carcinogen,3 can surely be classed as certifiably insane.

In reading the report referred to (http://www.iarc.fr/en/media-centre/pr/2011/pdfs/pr208_E.pdf), which many other tin foil hat groups are keen to mention, the IARC state the following:

The evidence was reviewed critically, and overall evaluated as being limited among users of wireless telephones for glioma and acoustic neuroma, and inadequate to draw conclusions for other types of cancers. The evidence from the occupational and environmental exposures mentioned above was similarly judged inadequate.

[sameagle]

In my case, it could be my gas supplier who may need to be wary of fitting a smart meter.

 

I have a radio transmitter installed in the same room, only about four feet away from the meter - I wonder what their electronics will think of that!

 

Sam

[unclebulgaria67]

In my case, it could be my gas supplier who may need to be wary of fitting a smart meter.

 

I have a radio transmitter installed in the same room, only about four feet away from the meter - I wonder what their electronics will think of that!

 

Sam

 

Perhaps if there was interference, the meter might go haywire, causing you to receive a huge bill !

 

I should imagine that they work on entirely different frequencies and there should not be a problem. But definitely something to flag with them.

[Consumer dude]

I'm ok with this thread going to utilities if it is felt greater debate could be had by doing so..

[AndyOrch]

I'm ok with this thread going to utilities if it is felt greater debate could be had by doing so..

 

Already In Utilities CD

[silverfox1961]

In my situation, I have a different scenario. I live in a sheltered housing complex which has communal heating and fixed electricity charges as none of the flats have meters (no gas at all) however, this complex was chosen as a test site for a new smart heating/electricity meter system alongside new air source heat pumps and new radiators throughout.

 

The smart meter is no bigger than a matchbox and is incorporated into a new fuse box. In the loft space there has been placed a heat meter. This tells the smart meter how much heat we are using on any day. The smart meter is not wireless. we have fibre broadband in the communal lounge and every flat has been hard wired to a switching box then on to the router.

 

The residents here are all fairly old and the meter is placed high up the wall in a cupboard so no one will be able to check how much they are using but they can ask the Scheme manager for a print out of their usage (so much for paperless). While the electricity side of the system is active, we won't start paying for our usage until next year when our total for that period will be split into a weekly amount and added to our service charges. When the heating is live, the same will apply. This should have been September 1st. It is now the 23rd and we have no heating. It's getting cooler here.

The subcontractor is in trouble with the council. Shucks!

[ericsbrother]

sounds like you will be double charged as I bet the service charges wont go down when you get individual bills. The communal areas will also be a cause for discontent for some as well.

[silverfox1961]

sounds like you will be double charged as I bet the service charges wont go down when you get individual bills. The communal areas will also be a cause for discontent for some as well.

 

That is something we discussed with the Housing manager and the designer of the system. As we pay our electric bills for the previous years use, our new bills will start from the next financial year (April 2017) so theoretically we won't be double charged. The heat charge will be as used. Talks are still ongoing for communal areas as not everyone uses them.

 

There was some discussion for the communal laundry but that has caused many issues as some of us have our own washing machine/tumble dryer so we don't use the laundry however, should any of our machines break down, the option is there to use the communal stuff but the cost hasn't been decided or how it will be levied.

 

Other service charges should remain at a similar level.

[stu007]

Just got all the stuff from my energy provider offering a free smart meter even with opt out if you wish.

 

What all the info has missing is:

 

The Smart Meter and wireless technology will need to use energy from somewhere so who pays for that?

 

Still considering the Pros & Cons

Edited September 27, 2016 by stu007

[Mr.P]

The Smart Meter and wireless technology will need to use energy from somewhere so who pays for that?

 

One would hope that the meter draws its power from the supply side so that it doesn't record the energy that it consumes. Always worth asking though.

 

As for the wireless infrastructure, the end consumer will end up paying for it one way or another. This will be buried in the standing charge as would the energy consumption of the meter if it draws power from the supply side.