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    • nothing you can do can product against the very rare judge lottery syndrome.
    • not sure why you added the blue line I've highlighted? that's no in the we gave you.   as for your question... PRAC's roboclaim computer knows when the account was taken out, after all it raised the claim and checked everything carefully first before issuing the request via northants bulk courts equally inept roboclaim computer... 
    • I've been researching in preparation of compiling my particularised defence/WS.    I'm none too happy that some judges still seem to be siding with DCAs and seemingly brushing aside anything that we have assumed to be "necessary" for DCAs to have a winning case.    Reading a recent "summary" from another poster (another thread with case similar to mine - very old, illegible application form, no default notice, reliance on their own software to prove it was ever sent) and the judgment made in favour of the DCA and even suggesting that there was no "agreement with the DCA, they simply owned the debt, not the agreement"  Makes me very nervous.    Especially if cases like this will be judged on "probability" - the probability that if I signed the original application form, then I must have taken out the credit card and racked up the alleged debt as shown in statements enclosed in their WS (and dated some ten years later).   Is it ok to post some "evidence" I've found from elsewhere?    This is in line with my fears that regardless of how hard one tries to rebut the "lack of evidence" produced by DCAs for chasing these very old "alleged" debts, it does appear to come down to the luck of what judge you get on the day and how much they can be swayed by the DCA solicitor.    A quick Google search produced the following - from one case - this related to a credit agreement - which resulted in someone being made bankrupt - that person appealed the bankruptcy order on the grounds of defective credit agreement and default notice and this was the appeal judge's decision:   The necessary formalities for the entry into the regulated consumer credit agreement (which related to the debt in issue) were not complied with; The default notice served in respect of that credit agreement was defective.   The First Ground The Appellant argued that she did not receive the terms and conditions when she entered into the credit agreement and, accordingly, section 61 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (“CCA”) had not been complied with and the agreement could not be enforced. The agreement had been entered in 1995 and, whilst it had provided a microfiche copy of the front page of the application, the Respondent had been unable to provide a copy of the terms.   Despite the terms not being produced, the District Judge had found that, in the circumstances, it was very likely that such terms existed and would have been provided to the Appellant when she entered into the Agreement. Mr Justice Mann held that this was a finding that the District Judge was entitled to make.   Further, Mr Justice Mann found that it was implicit from the District Judge’s findings that she considered that the terms and conditions not only existed but had been subscribed to by the Appellant’s signature and, consequently, the requirements of section 61 CCA were fulfilled. Mr Justice Mann held that this was also a justifiable finding which should not be interfered with on appeal.   The Second Ground The Appellant also argued that the default notice upon which the Respondent relied did not comply with the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notice) Regulations 1989 because it stated the full balance of the account rather than the total of the missed payments. The Respondent argued that, as a result of the missed payments, it was contractually entitled to the entire balance subject to the service of the appropriate notice, a requirement which was fulfilled by the default notice itself and, consequently, the sum required to remedy the breach was the entire amount.   Mr Justice Mann agreed with the Respondent and the District Judge, holding that: “If by the time the default notice is served circumstances have arisen which entitle the lender to recover not merely sums which might be regarded as arrears, by which I assume is meant accumulated minimum payments, but also the whole of the sum, then they are entitled to claim that sum, and the sum to require to remedy the breach for non-payment of that sum is the payment of the whole sum due. The bank is not confined, at that stage, to claiming merely the amount of arrears if it has an accrued contractual right to have the whole of the sum.”   Do judgments like these not mean that a lot of what you guys do on here (and for which I and many others are VERY grateful) somewhat redundant. What is happening to judges just accepting "well, the terms must have been there if you signed it" -    Feeling quite nervous now.
    • we know it wasn't done to avoid enforcement we understand completely. but that doesn't take from away the fact that it happened   you can't appeal the pcn's on the basis that 'it was not his vehicle to levy upon'. the law clearly states otherwise.          
    • here is a question for you, is yu house divided up into a retail/business area  and domestic area for business rates purposes? If not why on earth are you paying business water rates? ceertainly not for tax purposes as you can claim any legit expense without having to reclassify your home as a business premises. i would be stopping this nonsense and goping back to whatever water supplier is the domestic one for your area. there is stuff all they can do to get the £40 from you whan you do that.
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Sarauonia1

PCM/Gladstones claim form - PCN Grahame park way, Colindale, **DISCONTINUED**

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Hello

 

Name of the Claimant ? Parking Control Management

 

Date of issue – 7th September 2016

Date of issue - by 4pm Friday 7 October

What is the claim for

– 19/02/16 £150 09/04/16 total due £150

AND THE CLAIMANTS CLAIMS

The claimant claims the sum of £154.94 for parking charges and indemnity costs if applicable including £4.94 interest pursuant to S.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 Rate 8.00% pa from dates above to 06/09/16.

Same rate to judgement or (sooner) payment.

Daily rate to judgement £0.03

Total debt and interest £154.94

 

What is the value of the claim? £229.94

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor

or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim ? Parking Control Management,

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment?

I later received a letter from DRP ( Debt Recovery Plus) who said that the unpaid charges had been sent to them for collection,

but there is no mention in the letter of the account being assigned to them.

 

I have registered and completed the acknowledgment of service form online as was advised on this site,

so now I suppose that I should be preparing my defence.

 

I hope that I have followed the guideline set out correctly so far.

 

I received a claim form today, below are the details from it which I am supposed to include in this thread.

Please could anyone give an further insight or advice about the pitfalls to avoid.

Thanks

CLaim Form PCM.jpg

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you need to redact thing else you'll not be anon here will you?

but we don't need to see the form anyway.

 

claimant box says PCM

 

dx


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get a CPR 31:14 running to gladdys.

 

 

[Your address]

.

[Their address]

.

[Date]

.

Dear Sir or Madam,

.

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

.

CPR 31.14 Request

.

On (date) I received the claim formlink3.gif in this case issued by you out of the (Name) county courtlink3.gif.

.

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest and counter claim all of your claim.

.

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

.

1. proof of assignment from the landlord to create contracts and make claims in your own name.

.

2.proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and Country Planning Act 2007

.

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are disclosed at your earliest convenience..

.

Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy.

.

Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

.

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

.

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

.

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request please confirm in your response.

.

Yours faithfully


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fill this out too please as there is scant info on the claimform poc I see

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462118-Have-you-received-a-Parking-Ticket

dx


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PCM are generally rubbish at their job

so tell us all about the event leading up to this including

the place, time ect,

what paperwork you received from them and on what dates,

what you said to them,

whether you appealed and if so in what capacity- driver or keeper,

and whether you appealed to an independednt adjudicator

and if so what they said.

If this is a residential parking matter are you a leaseholder, tenant or visitor to the site.

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you need to redact thing else you'll not be anon here will you?

but we don't need to see the form anyway.

 

claimant box says PCM

 

dx

 

Hi

 

I don't get the message. I thought I had removed all personal deatils from the form before upload. Not sure how to remove it. :???:

 

Hi

 

Thank you for both messages. I have now got the forms mentioned and will complete as directed.

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Hello dx100uk

 

Thank you again. In response the questions asked about the parking ticket, this is the timeline of correspondences received from PCM and their 'aliases'.

 

Hello

 

This is the timeline of letters received. The 'loading bay' I stopped in, is on Grahame park way , Colindale, near a local Sainsburys ( Heath Parade NW9 Colindale)

 

The parking company is the Parking Control management and their appeals body they operate under is IPS

 

Date of the infringement – 19/02/2016

 

Date on the NTK – 30/03/2016

 

Date received- 01/04/2016

 

The NTK does mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012 on the back of it.

 

I eventfully received some photographic evidence on the 25th of August after sending a letter in response to their ‘letter before claim’.

 

I did not not appeal because looking at past experiences of other motorists, I did not think it would be worth it.

 

The first letter I received was what I believe is called a reminder to keeper. I did not appeal because after researching on them and reading an article about them, I did not think it would be worth doing so. Then in May (around the 8th) I received a demand for unpaid parking charges (£160) from DRP saying that the client had referred the matter for them to collect.

 

Then towards the end of the month, I received a letter which was about notice of intended court action, still from DRP. Then another one, this time ‘letter before referral for legal action.’ (in June)

 

By the end of June, I received another letter, still from DRP. This time offering a reduced payment offer of £136 to avoid potential court proceedings it stated that I had until 11/07/2016 to make the payment.

 

On the 3rd of August, I received a letter from Gladstones, solicitors representing PCM, a ‘Letter before Claim.’ It stated that the charge amount was now £150 (£10 less than the supposed debt). I responded denying any debt, agreement to contract and requested for photographic evidence.

 

This was sent on the 24th of August. As expected, the time showed that the car had stopped for under a minute because I had to pull in off the main road to check the SATNAV which had temporary lost its signal. I wrote back restating what had happened and that I thought that the parking charge was unreasonable as I had not stopped in their car park.

 

Then on the 9th of September, I received the claim form.

 

I have returned my acknowledgement of service to the court online and I am the process of sending a CPR 31.14 request to their solicitor - Gladstones.

 

What next - am unsure of.

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See if they reply to CPR

Just don't miss your def filing date 4pm 7th Oct

Whatever happens


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Ok, they slapped a ticket on the car on the 19/02 then?

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Hi

 

Actual no ticket was slapped on the car.

 

The 19/02 was the day I received the first letter from them,

before then I had no idea that a picture had been taken.

 

I never left the car, just drove into the bay,

stopped for a minute to check SATNAV and carried on with my journey.

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they are timed out to create a keeper liability so as long as you didnt say who was driving they are stuffed as they cannot claim from you as the keeper.

 

you werent parked so you havent breached any contract and if the sign says no stopping then how are you suppoded to consider the contractual terms on the sign?

 

 

it is a sign that is prohibitive and therefore not a contractual matter.

 

 

They lose twice over but get the CPR 31.14 discovery request to them and when they dont respond you can add that as a third defence point.

 

Another case of Gladdys wasting their clients money for no conceivable purpose

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Thanks, feeling better about the whole thing now. :-)

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Hello

 

I need help with composing my defense. Should I just write about what happened or will I need to 'speak' in legalise; which I am not sure about.

 

I would appreciate further help.

 

Thanks

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not yet you don't

doesn't need to be in till 7th oct let it run.

 

 

dx


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neither, you just write a skeleton defence such as

 

 

no contract offered so there can be no claim for breach of contract. (or the couple of points made in earlier response #11)

 

 

All of the detail will come when you exchange documents. 85% of all county court claims go unchallenged so just responding and denying will make them stop and think about whether they want to spend money on this when there are easier targets.

 

Hello

 

I need help with composing my defence. Should I just write about what happened or will I need to 'speak' in legalise; which I am not sure about.

 

I would appreciate further help.

 

Thanks

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Hi dx100uk

 

This is the skeleton of the defense I want to send via MCOL . I want to send it tomorrow. Please advice if there is anything I should remove or add.

 

Thanks as always your help is greatly appreciated.

 

The claim is denied in its entirety.

I assert that I am not liable* to the Claimant for the sum claimed, or any amount at all, for the*following reasons:

1,The alleged contravention did not occur.

The driver did not breach*contractual terms and conditions of PCM by parking within a*restricted area.

 

 

The signage which PCM claim to clearly signposted*was not.

 

 

The signage - too high to be read without leaving the*vehicle, which the driver did not do

- is prohibitive and not a*contractual matter.

Furthermore, the claim is disputed because PCM*has not provided any evidence of acting as agent for the*landowners.

 

The alleged contravention occurred because the driver pulled out*of the main road and stopped on a 'loading only bay' of a main*through-fare to check directions of onward journey, due to*temporary lose of signal on the SATNAV. Stopping in the bay was*the safest place for this action.

 

Additionally, photographic evidence of the alleged contravention,*show that the driver stopped for under a minute therefore the*charge is disproportionate and excessive.

 

Forgot to add that you were of course correct , have not heard from them. After sending CPR 31.14 to them.

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no due till the 7th by 4pm

hold your nerve

 

 

dx


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1. 19/02/16 £150 09/04/16 total due £150

 

AND THE CLAIMANTS CLAIMS

The claimant claims the sum of £154.94 for parking chargeslink3.gif and indemnity costs if applicable

including £4.94 interest pursuant to S.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 Rate 8.00% pa from dates above to 06/09/16.

Same rate to judgement or (sooner) payment.

Daily rate to judgement £0.03

Total debt and interest £154.94

claim total £229.94

defence

The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature.

The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

.

1.The claimant has failed to show a cause for action by way of a copy of a contract with the landowner.

Following a request made under CPR 31.14. by royalmail DD/mm/yyyy the claimants solicitors have failed to reply to date with any paperwork.

.

2.It is denied that i entered any car park owned or operated by the Defendant,

i stopped in a 'loading bay' at Grahame park way, Colindale, to operate my SATNAV as is unsafe to drive and do so.

I saw no signs anywhere, so no contract was ever entered into.

 

3.If there was a contract, it is denied that the penalty charge is incorporated into the contract.

As per Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking [1971] 2 QB 163, the relevant term must be made known before a contract was formed.

The contract fails information requirements for distance contracts established in the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation And Additional Charges) Regulations 2013. As per the Act, any contract is not binding on the consumer.

...................

only my try

 

 

 

 


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Thank you, will wait till morning of 7th.

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I would still state the signage is prohibitive and thus a contract cannot be formed to breach.

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Hello dx100uk and ericsbrother

 

This afternoon finally got a reply from them ...

 

Quote " We write further to your letter dated ... Please note that CPR31.14 does not apply to small claim cases and as such we will not be responding at this stage. Any evidence out client feels is relevant to the case will be filed and served when the court orders."

 

As far as I know the only evidence they have are the photos of the car. I will still file my defense statement online.

 

Any other advice from you, regarding this new development would be welcomed as usual.

 

Thanks

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usual blurb from them

 

 

sadly the fact is its hasn't been allocated to any track yet

so CPR 31:14 does apply.

 

 

but that's for your defence and should be noted in it.

 

 

so your 1, needs to be updated now...

 

 

1.The claimant has failed to show a cause for action by way of a copy of the contract with the landowner.

Following a request made under CPR 31.14. by royalmail DDlink3.gif/mm/yyyy to the claimants solicitors requesting sight of

1. proof of assignment from the landlord to create contracts and make claims in your own name. .

2.proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and Country Planning Act 2007

and any other paperwork they intend to rely upon.

 

 

The claimants solicitors in a letter dated xxx have refused my CPR 31:14 request stating it does not apply to the small claims track

further frustration to the defendant. Even though the case has yet to be allocated to track.


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gladdys are busy losing defended claims by way of CPR16.4- failure to show cause for action/locus standi. Worth reading and mentioning as an add on to the above as the courts seem to have shared their knowledge of Gladdys tactics.

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Hi

 

Got copy of client's (PCM) Directions Questionnaire from Gladstones.

 

I am correct in that I don't want the case heard on papers alone. Their letter says

 

" You will note we intend to request a special direction that the case be dealt with on the papers and without an oral hearing. "

 

and included with their letter is a note about sending special request form N159 to the court.

 

The other letter which like the one I am supposed to send back. It does not have any significant heading just ' Notice of Allocation to the small Claims Track.'

 

The second half has a section where I am to indicate my reply and I am thinking that I should opt for "I do not agree that the claim should be dealt with on the papers alone."

 

I think this would cause the case to be sent to my local court which is fine with me.

 

Also, should I have received a Directions Questionnaire from the Court as well.

 

What do you think?

 

Thanks

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PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

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