BW Legal / VCS Claim Form - residential development Help please

[lauraslw]

Name of the Claimant - Vehicle Control Services

Date of issue – 30 Aug 2016

 

What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim?

 

 

1. The claimant's Claim is for the sum of £100.00 being monies due from the Defendant to the Claimant in respect of a PCN issued on 3/7/2015 at *home address*

 

2.The PCN relates to *reg number* The terms of the PCN allowed the Defendant 28 days from the Issue Date to pay the PCN, but the Defendant failed to do so.

 

3. Despite demand having been made, the defendant has failed to settle their outstanding liability.

 

4. The Claim also includes Statutory Interest pursuant to section 69 of the Count Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum a daily rate of 0.02 from 3/7/2015 to 26/8/2016 being an amount of £8.42

5.The Claimant also claims £54.00 contracual costs pursuant to the PCN T&Cs."

 

What is the value of the claim?

Amount claimed: £162.42

Court Fee: £25.00

Legal costs: £50.00

Total: £237.42

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim ? Yes - BW Legal

 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Yes

Hi all,

 

I'm aware that there are hundreds of posts on here with information and answers etc.

but having skimmed over around 5 different threads I'm still confused on what to do.

I'm currently off on Maternity Leave so I don't get much time to sit around hence needing some quick help.

.. it would be very much appreciated!

 

I live in an apartment block and the car park below is private, managed by VCS.

We have one space allocated per apartment and have to display a window ticket all year.

I wasn't aware that the ticket had an expiry date of 30/05/2015

hence receiving a parking ticket for not displaying an updated ticket!

I found it absurd that I had a ticket clearly shown but didn't realise I needed a new one

so suddenly had to pay £100.00 for parking outside my own home.

 

I haven't got any of the paperwork they've sent me as it all went to my mum's address where my car was still registered (hadn't got round to updating my address as we'd not long moved in)

I told her to just chuck it all.

I did read on a few forums about appealing when I first got the charge but I'd missed the deadline.

next advice was to ignore.

I still refuse to pay it and will happily stand infront of a court and give my reasoning,

not that I'd win but out of principal.

Any help on next steps would be great.

Thanks

 

Answered questions below which I believe help:

Edited September 8, 2016 by honeybee13
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[Bazooka Boo]

Ericsbrother, will be along with advice on how you'll win this.

 

In a nutshell, you have a tenancy agreement with your landlord, you don't have a contract with the PPC, your tenancy agreement WILL trump anything these parasites come up with, the contract is between them and your landlord, not you.

[dx100uk]

go ack the claim on the MCOL website [AOS box]

 

 

defend all

leave jurisdiction unticked

 

 

get this running to BW legal

 

 

[Your address]

.

[Their address]

.

[Date]

.

Dear Sir or Madam,

.

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

.

CPR 31.14 Request

.

On (date) I received the claim form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) county court.

.

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest and counter claim all of your claim.

.

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

.

1. proof of assignment from the landlord to create contracts and make claims in your own name.

.

2.proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and Country Planning Act 2007

.

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are disclosed at your earliest convenience..

.

Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy.

.

Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

.

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

.

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

.

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request please confirm in your response.

.

Yours faithfully

.

 

 

don't sign it

print [type] your name only

[lauraslw]

Brill, thank you so much.

I'll get the letter done tonight and post to them tomorrow

- would you recommend emailing a copy too or just send the letter to their address on letter footers?

 

Laura

Edited September 8, 2016 by lauraslw

[dx100uk]

letters?

 

one cpr to BW

 

you acknowledge the claim on the mcol website as above

[ericsbrother]

I havent seen a claim from a parking co at a residential development where the parking co actually has the authority to enter into contracts and make claims because they always sign an agreement with the managing agents and not the freeholder so there is no authority from the landowner.

 

 

Also, it is usual for the lease agreement to cover things like parking and the lease has waht is called supremacy of contract, which means that whatever arrangements are made by anyone regarding parking control are merely an administrative convenience and are not binding upon the lesee or any tenant of theirs.

 

So how to beat this claim: start off with

supply us with the address of the development so we han have a look at any signage at the entrance to the land,

this is what forms a contract with the public and not some piddly little sign hidden behind a wheelie bin.

 

 

Secondly, read the lease agreement and you will see that the allocation of a space is absolute and not governed by some rule that says you must obey some cowboy outfit that peddles itself to the agents who manage the place, often with money changing hands to get the foot in the door.

 

 

Thirdly, do you have the paperwork that VCS used to issue the ticket for parking without a permit and the consequential correspondence?

If so then you will see that it is not compliant with the POFA and that means that they are most likely pursuing the wrong legal entity for the alleged debt

so even if they had all the permissions in the world to be a nuisance

they are chasing the wrong person for the money.

 

Lastly, they wont have planning permission for their signage and that menas they are committing a criminal offence.

You cannot enter into a criminal compact so there is and never can be a contract to breach or agree to.

 

BW legal are lawyers for hire and arent suing you,

they just do the dirty work for their client in exchange for cash

and when you beat this claim they will still charge VCS for their "services"

 

 

As for the £54 legal costs, these are not claimable, even if there was a contract that says you will pay it because they are suing for a breach of contract with a set penalty for doing so, not claiming money due under a contract.

 

 

The reality is that VCS havent paid them a penny yet and they work on a contingency fee type basis and that may well be illegal but difficult to prove.

[lauraslw]

Thanks for your help with this ericsbrother and dx100uk.

 

I sent the above letter last Friday but I'm yet to hear back - do I need to do anything more? I'm a little worried that my time is running out.

 

Apologies I should've mentioned that whilst I'm living in this apartment, the lease is in my partners name only as I moved in a month after he'd got set up here. I'm assuming that's not great on my part and means most of the above doesn't stand for me? I also do not have any of the original paperwork as I binned it all after not hearing from them for a while - my bad again.

 

The address of the property is my home address so don't feel comfortable writing it on an open forum? Do you need me to send photos too? There are 5 signs up on the walls within the car park but a few months ago they added a 6th at the entrance. Obviously I can't prove when they added it but not sure if that makes a difference.

 

Thanks

Laura

[dx100uk]

most people post them up without a problem here

to PDF please

 

 

tenancy etc applies to you too so no issue

 

 

defence not due till / by 4pm Friday 30th

[ericsbrother]

photos of signage always very helpful.

 

your tenancy will defeat any claim that these bandits have,

it is called superiority of contract and generally the parking cowboys are hired by the managing agents

so that is 2 reasons why the claim isnt worth a light.

 

Your defence is quite simple,

no breach of contract occurred as you have superiority of contract

(and when we see the signs you can probably add that the signage is prohibitive and not an offer of a contract).

 

 

no locus standi for parking co ( they signed deal with 3rd party),

no planning consent for signage etc etc.

 

these bullet points are all you ned to make at the moment,

 

 

we can dig up some old claims where parking co's have lost in the same circumstances that you can quote if they want to continue to lose money

[lauraslw]

Hi,

 

I didn't keep track of time with this as my little boy hasn't been well but I think my defence is needed today. Does anyone have a template of what I submit? I've no idea what to say.

 

Also how do I upload a photo as a PDF here?

 

Thanks

 

Oh I think I've figured the PDF thing out:

 

Also should mention that I never received a response from VCS to the letter I sent. But idiot me sent it through my partners work so don't have receipt.

sign.pdf

[dx100uk]

basics are in post 9

wait for EB to pop in later about the sign

then you can file via MCOL website

 

 

don't forget to include they have failed to respond to your CPR31:14

asking for XYZ posted DDMMYYYY.

[lauraslw]

Ok thanks - so I just jazz most of it up into a fancy piece of writing and submit it? I'll wait for the reply first of course. As you said it has to be in by 4pm, I'm in a rush because I left it until last minute doh.

[ericsbrother]

no, dont jazz anything up, just stick to the facts in plain english.

 

I have read the sign and to me it is one of a prohibitive nature-parking permit holders only.

 

The rest of the world are thus trespassers and not covered by any other term but MAY be sued by the landowner, not a bunch of cowboy ex-clampers with a felt tip pen.

 

so, your defence is simple:

 

1.VCS unable to offer you a contract as your tenancy gives you supremacy of contract.

 

2. VCS does not have planning consent for its signage so unable to offer a contract as it would be a criminal compact.

 

3. VCS have failed to show locus standi by way of providing vai a CPR 31.14 request sight of a contract between themselves and the landowner that assigns the rights to enter into contracts with the occupiers of the land and to make claims and take civil action in their own name.

 

4. In any case the signage is prohibitive so no breach of contract and any claim for trespass must be from landowner.

 

no need for detail at this juncture

, I have a feeling that they wont be paying the allocation fee and just slink away.

 

Later on I would suggest a letter to court referencing other lost VCS claims on housing developments where it is obvious they have no right to be there and show that their action is without a reasonable cause and claim all of your expenses including preparation time (5 hrs @£19.50/hr) via a CPR 27 request.

 

They know they have no grounds to sue but do so as 85% of people either dont respond or pay up without a fight.

 

They may well drop this like a hot brick now but that shouldnt put yu off from claiming your costs.

[lauraslw]

Hi guys, thank you for your help on this, it's very much appreciated!

 

I've submitted the defence now so will wait and see. It said that it must be within 28 days of the issue date though, which would've made 27th September the deadline if I work it out like that. How did you get to 30th September?

 

Thanks

[dx100uk]

plus 5 days for service [postage]

33 days in total

[ericsbrother]

yep, you get a couple of days each way for the post.

[lauraslw]

Hi there,

 

I've finally heard back from BW Legal, a letter which simply states "Our client intends to continue with the claim. We have filed notice of our client's intention to proceed with the court."

 

I've also received a "Notice of Proposed Allocation to the Small Claims Track" from MoneyClaim.

 

Let me know if you need me to upload PDF versions of both letters, not sure if you've seen them before. Should I be feeling worried now?!

 

Thanks

Laura

[dx100uk]

don't need to see either

just fill in the NOP no to mediation

rest is obv and send it back

[lauraslw]

Thanks - I ticked no and N/A to everything else. Does this mean it will be going to court or do they usually do this after putting in a defense?

 

Laura

[ericsbrother]

you have to submit a skeleton defence within a fortnight after acknowledging the claim.

You then get the allocation questionnaire and they then have to pay the allocation fee of another £25.

 

when that is done the case will be allocated to a track (small claims) and a court (your local one unless you asked for another one to hear it).

 

Some time after that you will get a directions order that wll tell you to send your evidence bundle to the claimant and the court by a certain date, usually a fortnight before the hearing.

 

You may get a directions or case management order and that can mean that if one of the parties doesnt do something ( like show they actually have a right to make a claim when this is challenged) then the whole thing is decided beforehand without a hearing.

 

I had a claim where I was invited to a case management hearing along with the claimant (CEL) to show certain things.

My defence was that I owned the land and hadnt given CEL any rights to be there and the judge couldnt believe that they were so dumb as to try it on

 

but as they didnt show up we had a chat about their tactics in other claims that were well known,

I got my costs order and was told that a harassment claim would be hard to prove as I didnt appear to be that distressed by their stupidity and greed.

 

Moral of this? well,

Case Management Orders are genreally your friend as it means the paperwork has been read so it will be worth sending letters to court once one has been allocated to get the claim struck out under CPR 16.4 and get a CPR 27 full costs recovery claim in.

 

You may not get the claim chucked out without a heairng but at least the judge will look very hard at the quality of the evidence of their claim and that usually results in an ear bashing for whichever renatasolicitor they have used that day.

 

They rarely turn up themselves because they would most likely need a weekend bag if they did

[lauraslw]

Gosh it's complicated.

 

because I've said no to mediation,

I await the directions order which will instruct me to send my evidence bundle?

 

I've been trying to find similar cases on here but I've read through 10 or so with no luck.

 

Apologies if I'm asking the same questions answered elsewhere.

[ericsbrother]

that will be a long way away yet,

you will get a letter telling you what court and what track is going to be used first.

 

 

After that you will be told a date for the hearing and then a date to exchange evidence.

 

In the meanwhile expect letters from BW trying to frighten you.

 

 

They are designed to persuade you to pay up and avoid court.

 

 

Of course they want to avoid court as they will lose.

[superstarjan]

Good luck Laura! I'm following your thread as I'm being threatened too! x

[lauraslw]

Hi there,

 

It's been a while but I finally have a letter from the court.

It's dated 23rd December 2016 but I only received it a week ago as it's all addressed to my old address, mum's, and she's been away.

 

Firstly the hearing has been booked in for 10am on 10th March 2017 but it's been blocklisted so I've been asked to leave the whole day free.

 

I can't possibly do this as I'm a full time mum to my little boy.

We have no childcare - I've been away from him once or twice since he was born 13 months ago.

 

If my partner takes a day off work, we'd lose a day's pay so I may as well pay them!

 

Long story short - I don't have much family and my partner's family live far away.

Is there anything I can do about this?

 

Secondly I've been asked to provide the following by 4pm on 31st January 2017:

 

a) A written witness statement of any person (including yourself) whose evidence is relied upon in support of your case.

 

The statement must:

i) Contain all the evidence of the witness

ii) Be dated

iii) Conclude with a signed confirmation stating:

"The contents of my statement are true to the best of my knowledge and belief"

 

b) Copies of any documents relied upon, even if these have previously been sent to your opponent and/or sent to the court. You are unlikely to be allowed to rely on any document which has not been filed at court and sent to your opponent in compliance with this direction

 

I have absolutely no idea what I'm even doing here!

 

I got the parking ticket when I was 21 and pregnant and since then all they've done is give me grief.

 

I genuinely did nothing wrong - I parked outside my own home, in my own parking space for gods sake!

It's stressing me out so much I'm contemplating just ignoring the whole thing and putting up with a CCJ for five years

 

Any help would be very much appreciated.

 

Thank you

[Oddfellow]

Laura, you've been given quite a lot of help from Ericsbrother in particular, setting out what your defence should be (and the supremacy of contract between landlord and tenant is a very strong one). The witness statement is just a rewording of that, and there are plenty of examples in recent threads here. Tell them what you did, where you parked, when you got tickets, NTKs, etc. Provide photos of the signage, and if possible a copy of your tenancy agreement.

 

As your little boy is now a bit older, I would imagine that you have a bit more freedom and time to do some reading. Have a look at some posts from the last couple of months on the Parking Prankster's blog, where he has reported on cases involving tenants getting tickets, and even has an article (dated 24 November 2016) on the things you need to consider (including case law, such as Pace vs Mr N). You need to quote that, and have a copy of the transcript, which is available online.

 

While I have some sympathy with your domestic and financial arrangements, is it really the case that you have no-one who you can leave your son with? Your Mum, for instance?

 

Anyway, whatever you do, don't just ignore it, because you will end up with a CCJ, and the value of their claim doesn't just disappear like it would if someone declare themselves bankrupt. They will win the case in default, you have 28 days to pay (which will include all their costs), and failure to do so will result in a County Court Judgement against you. They can then go to the High Court who will appoint bailiffs to recover the loss. And then there is your credit history, which will be done for the foreseeable future, which I would imagine is not a good place to be in with a young family.