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Hi,

 

Hope everyone had a good bank holiday.

 

I (and three others!) missed crap signage and got a Contractual Breach Charge from Ethical Parking on my windscreen over the weekend. Just double checking that it is currently still best to do nothing until a notice to keeper arrives (between 28 and 56 days) before I take any action on one of these?

 

Then if it (NTK) arrives on time post photos of it and signage on here for assistance?

 

Just don't want to get it wrong! Thanks!

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Yes wait for the NTK before doing anything, if possible, go back now and take photos of the signs etc.

 

''ethical'' parking!!! Ha ha ha ha, who dreams up these names??


Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, the whole DCA industry would collapse overnight.

 

 

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yep, wait for NTK, often that will not be PoFA compliant and they will be without anyone to legally chase

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Interesting wording "Contractual Breach Charge". Seems to be trying to make it clear they know what they are claiming for, rather than a parking charge or (heaven forbid) a penalty charge.

 

 

Is this commonplace?

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well, it depends on whether the money they claim is a contractual condition of parking or damages for a breach of contract. the 2 are not interchangeable so the wording of the sign will decide whether they are getting that right or not.

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Well the NTK has arrive (33days later).

 

Here are photos of it and some showing crap signage.

 

It was levied at Shoreham Airport by Ethical PArking

20161004_094342.jpg

20161004_123610.jpg

20161004_124015.jpg

20161004_123907.jpg

NoticeToKeeperEthical.jpg

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In short, NTK not compliant with POFA,

doesnt say who the creditor is for starters,

 

I am struggling to see the signage as the image you have shown in detail is clearly not the same as the ones next to the ticket machine.

 

I would like to see both

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Oh yes you're right.

 

I didn't even see that when i returned a second time to take more photos!

I'd really rather not have to drive back again.

 

We approached to park on the left anyway

. These signs seem to only refer to the enclosed car park to the right hand side

 

. All in all the signage is a joke.

No one could be expected to see it

 

. Is there enough here to tell them to bog off or do I really need to return?

(I had taken a video but i can't seem to find it annoyingly).

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the point is that if the signage is different they cannot offer a contract but merely be an invitation to treat.

 

If the wording on the little signs has extra conditions you agree you then the main signs arent the contract or offer of a contract just an advertisement that you can ignore if you wish.

 

However, the sign you show talks of a contractual agreement and obligation and then the demand says it is for a breach of contract

 

. Well, they cant both be right but together they can be wrong

 

. In short, have you agreed to pay them a sum or is it a penalty for breach of contract, you cannot agree to break a contract at the outset!

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So to try to make this clearer

we entered as per the first photo and parked on the left

- roughly where the fourth car along is (the blue one sticking out).

 

We then walked to the doors straight ahead in the second photo (to a cafe in that building) across the grass where the man is

- four of us saw no signage.

Which is because there is no adequate signage.

 

The only signs are on the right (which is a separate enclosed area), way over about 100m in the distance to the very right of the main building and on the fence on the left in the first photo

- but it would be behind you over the passengers left shoulder as you entered!

(I'm sorry but the file manager says I can't add any more photos)

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what to do?

Up to you really.

 

You can appeal and tell them their NTK is not compliant with para 8 of the POFA and thus no keeper liability can be created and leave it at that.

(dont tell them the exact reason it isnt compliant, the sods will jsut send out another one and claim the first letter was a mailshot and not the NTK.

 

If they still want to argue after your letter

then you can play letter tennis with them about invitations to treat,

difference between a contractual obligation and breach of contract etc

but they wont understand,

they just want money and will ignore logic and proof if they think you might yield and pay them so they will keep on.

 

I would suggest you send the first letter denying a liability and leave it at that.

 

if they threaten legal action then use the other arguments to show that you have tried to be reasonable because they wont like to have them shown to a judge, who will know better then them which argument prevails and the onus is on them to PROVE they are right all of the time

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Upload stuff as pdf


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, the whole DCA industry would collapse overnight.

 

 

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Ok will do. I'll get to writing a letter asap. Is it ok if i put up a draft of my letter just to check is OK before i send it?

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Is this ok?

 

Dear Sir,

 

The Parking Charge Notice ref: XXXXX you sent to this address is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and therefore no keeper liability has been formed so stop bothering me.

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that will do fine.

It wont be the last you hear from them but at least they will now know you are not a pushover so will probably stop at getting a tame dca to write you a threatogram

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Ok, thanks again for your help. It's very much appreciated.

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Ah, do I actually sign the letter? I put my name on it but I thought I remembered reading somewhere not to sign or am I mistaken? I just don't want to "trip up on a technicality" at this stage. Thanks again.

Edited by q.q.qlp
more info

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doesn't matter

even if they get your sig what the hell can they do with it?


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, the whole DCA industry would collapse overnight.

 

 

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Ok thanks. Thought I'd better check in case there was some sort of admitting liability issue or something with signing it.

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no its not like theres a signed agreement that they cant find like credit card or loan claimforms under the CCA.


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, the whole DCA industry would collapse overnight.

 

 

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sign it with your initials or some script you wouldnt normally use.

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Ok thanks. Done and posted! I'll report on what happens here. Just out of curiosity what can they do with my signature? Sounds scary!

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There have been instances of signatures been applied to copies of documents that were never signed. No example from a parking co ever come to light though but taking a precautionary measure like this will show the origin of any dusputed signature should someone start to dig through the sewer they seem to frequent.

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Hi,

 

I was hoping this would just go away after my letter telling them to bog off but following on from the above thread this "final reminder before debt recovery" letter has arrived and threatens action from "debt recovery specialists" if I don't pay £60 within 28days which sounds a bit scary (ie two big blokes booting my door in and taking my TV type scary).

 

What is my next action?

EthicalFinalReminder.jpg

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