Me V Swift

[mrsfoot]

OK update ready

 

Went and was a prepared as i could be. Met the clerk of the Judge who was extrememly nice. Anyhow when his honour came in he was very straight forward. The defence has combined the bundles....which meant my skeleton argument was out of context.. and no page ref was accurate! Luckily I had noticed this before the hearing and had prepared a further argument and printed one for each party and his honour. He made no bones about telling both parties that litigation is not a game. He then turned his attention to me and asked why i thought the charges were a penalty. After starting the initial blurb he stopped me and said he had seen enough of "our old friends dunlop et al" and he had thoroughly read the case and felt these charges were not penalties. He said we had agreed to them and therefore they ewre not in terrorem. He said they had not been sent with a tarrif rather the contract had been signed with perfectly logical terms in them. HH asked me did i expect to pay reasonable charges for not paying my mortgage on time..yes i replied, that was exactly what i expected to pay, but these charges werre not reasonable i argued. Exactly HH said. HH then stated about the cost of this case, mentioning that if it was to continue it could run into thousands of pounds which did i realise i would have to pay if i lost. He then said that did the defence realise that if i won they would be footing their own costs. He went into great detail about this subject and Defence asked for it to be then placed into multi track where it belonged. HH then called a short adjournment for both sides to consider this. When he came back in both me and OH had decided to continue, al;ong the track of Defence breaching their own contract. There are a few reasons for this which has to remain confidential for a while (sorry). HH was relieved at this and we got the feeling he would have dismissed the claim on the basis of penalty charges. He said it was more the mortgage company had breached their own contract by charging unreasonable charges. He then turned to the Defence and asked where this analysis is. They told HH it was not relative to Swift Ad rather it was Swift 1st as it was sent to FSA when Swift 1st registered. I then said if i had been allowed inspection of this at the begginning this case may not have been here if it shows no profit is made. HH then mentioned the cost of some letters....and worked them out to be worth about £15 using 10% of an assistant solicitor (if that was the case). HH then asked the Defence to use best endevours to get this report to me, which they agreed, within 14 days. This report must remain confidential. If it is not HH said and i quote "there had best be a very good reason why not" The next 20 mins were spent organising the next date which is July.

Defence then asked the case to be transferred to multi track. I quoted relevant CPR and the facts from the previous hearing....to which HH then said it was to stay in fast track.

I have a few plans which must stay quiet for a few weeks, but as soon as i can let you know i will. I am extremely disapointed in the fact it was not concluded, however it could have been worse and been thrown out on the penalty basis. I have taken advice on this matter and it may have been a mistake for me to do this, but at the time i had no other option as I had to agree totally with the Judge. However mistake over, there is now a very good chance for this to go to a next step, which of course will be revealed in due course.

 

So top and bottom

 

1. Case now based on breach of contract on Defendants side

2. I will be claiming the difference between the cost charged and the actual reasonable cost for each single item

3. Its been adjourned for defence to send analysis, for me to read and digest then report my next step and for Defence to do a response to my next step.

4. The judge said it may be an idea for the next hearing not to actually happen, hinting at an out of court settlement for both sides.

 

I have to say it was an experience sitting in front of such a nice Judge, and really felt he was as helpful as he could have been....and extremely funny on top of his professionalism.

[kennyh]

Way to go girl!! You've identified the chink in the armour. I pray that you are able to exploit it 'vive "the difference"'

[hagenuk]

Very well done mrsfoot, I knew you could do it!

[kennyh]

Anyone!

Does this emphasis on 'the difference' by this judge hold any significance for future strtegy so far as dealings with BS are concerned - or is that a bit premature?

Or am I just b****y thick for mentioning it in open forum?

[Jacqueline07]

But who decides what is reasonable? Surely this should mean standard disclosure at all times - most of these letters are still just computer generated aren't they - or am I too missing something.

[mrsfoot]

Thanks guys, was feeling a litle mad with self over the penalty charges part of the claim but now i have had time to sit and think i really believe this is the right way forward

[Guest beedydad]

Mrs Foot just had chance to catch up on your case. Read with great interest and admiration your experiance at Court - your post of 26th.

 

We hope that you will get the positive outcome you deserve and hopefully pin them down. Whether you will be able to announce to your friends on CAG the outcome or be forced to "confidentiality" will be interesting

 

All the very best wishes

 

Beedydad

[mrsfoot]

Jackie

 

The test of reseasonable is going to be done via the 2 parties stating what they think is a reasonable charge for the work completed for each activity, giving a reason and evidence if available (on my part). This will (on my part) take into account who has done the work, what their title was at the time, wages and the length of time working. A good example of this was given by the judge for both parties to use......if a letter is written from the solicitors it can be almost certainly assumed that it wont have been written by a solicitor. In fact it would have been completed, if at all, by an assistant solicitor. So a reasonable charge for a letter would be approx 10% of that persons hourly wage giving a figure of around £15.

 

So i am completing an analysis of what i feel is reasonable for a charge, after all there were breaches and we expect to pay a "reasonable" fee. It will be very interesting to see what reasons the Defence give for a charge of £100 for 1 letter!

[mrsfoot]

Quick question...on all the charges i was then charged interest at the rate of 8.28%. Can I claim this as well as the statutory 8%?

 

My argument to this is by charging interest they have increased their profit or would this be dounle counting the interest??

[Jacqueline07]

Mrs Foot - I tried to use this argument against the dudley - however, I didn't feel that I pressed it hard enough. I should also - I think - asked what rate they borrowed their money at (proving even more of the profit that they make on the loan by itself). The Dudley's argument was that the charges should be carried by me so that other borrowers do not foot this cost (that I have incurred). However, by proving that the rate of interest that they borrowed at and the rate that they are charging you is very different - therein lies the profit which should cover any charges.

 

Does this make sense? When I go back into court with Preferred (who I feel I have a greater chance with as their charging is extortionate) I shall also use this argument again.

 

I don't know about charging the interest again - I thought that you could only ask for one type of interest - but I may be wrong.

 

Best of Luck - jackie

[Jacqueline07]

Sorry - Mrs Foot - I've just read your post again. Some of what I have put above applies - my point was that as the interest rate was loaded (for whatever reason) - this is their profit and they cannot claim a loss for sending the odd letter re: arrears.

 

If I'm talking gobbledigook - please ignore me!!!!

 

Jackie

[mrsfoot]

Hi Jackie

 

Dont worry i totally understand what you are saying and I think I am just going to stick to the 8%.

It is a valid point that you raise about their borrowing rate against what they charge the borrower in respect. However there has been some interesting info given to me by another member, which must remain confidential for the time being. All will be revealed in time!!

If i can be of any use with your claims Jackie, please feel free to let me know, especially if it goes to court as I now have quite a lot of experience in this area lol

[Jacqueline07]

Mrs Foot - would love to know this by the 28th May - I've got to go back to court following the adjournment with Preferred (re: my repossession). They are supposed to disclose their costs by this Tuesday coming - my re-mortgage completes on Tuesday (hopefully) - but I'm still pushing this for my charges etc back.

 

Jackie

[mrsfoot]

Hi quick update

 

Jackie...only just seen this post. Hope it went well on the 28th and that the re-mortgage went through without any problems.

 

I am now waiting for Swift to write back to me with regards to the "reasonable" charges I sent them. Till then the court date is set for 5th July!

[Jacqueline07]

Mrs Foot - I hope that they contact you before that time.

 

My re-mortgage is now through and I'm rid of Preferred. They have until the 29th to submit their argument (as you've read on my thread) - I am emphasising that Preferred have not even acted "reasonably" with my account - so not only did they not send out "automated" letters - they sent nothing at all on most occasions!! Hope that the Dudley info. was of help to you - I believe that this erred on the side of "over the top" as far as their actual costs incurred but bearing in mind that they are a small building society you can assume that it would cost a large organisation much less.

 

Best of Luck - I'm not here as much at the moment as I'm job hunting but I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

 

Jackie

[mrsfoot]

Update......case is closed. Thanks to all support given and may you all continue to fight for what is rightfully yours!

[mochamoo]

...

[Jacqueline07]

I hope the outcome was what you wanted. If so, I'm over the moon for you.

 

Jackie

[meled]

I to hope the outcome is what you wanted

[Bona]

i hope I am glad for u I expect that you will help others with you knowledge!!!!!! take care would luv to hear from you on pm

BonaXXXXXXX

[pkelly]

Hi all,

 

My friend borrowed money at the start of this year then again more on two more occassions within a shot time, a total of just over £150k

After getting into arrears, he said he wanted to question the agreement, next time he rang and was told it was in the hands of the solicitor??? possibly because he said he wanted to question it? Still none came over a month later until two days after they got a solicitors letter, then an eviction letter came with still no settlement,??

Within the next few days another came with over £30k added to it. This is all within 1 year of getting the first loan.

Next thing he contacted his first charge loan company. they were only over £50k with their 1st charge loan.

However they said that swift had already contacted them to get a settlement charge, this was before he even got into dept with swift. And also without asking his permission.

They are wrong in my opinion. For-by the initial forms being incorrect they seem to think they can do anything they like, and as for the terms the loan were taken out on, they to were never explained, the company that arranged it were only interested in the £3500 sign up fee. and have since done a runner. in fact Swift no longer loan to N Ireland according what they told us.

funny though about this same time, when it was almost impossible to get a loan, another company rang out of the blue to see if he would take out a new loan. they were very persistant even to he point of saying swift were no longer lending. where did they get his number from? its x directory

So I suppose this is a common enough story. hope it helps someone else

[42man]

moving to Swift forum