apex motor company in wolverhampton - Rejecting a used car

[jeepster]

Hi all, I purchased a car from a dealer, the car is a freelander 2, 07 reg with 175000 on the clock.

 

it was advertised as drives lovely, looks lovely with full service history.

 

I visited the dealer, apex motor services of Wolverhampton, the dealer took me on a test drive and I drove the car back to his showroom. He let me drive it for about a mile at normal road speed say 30-40mph.

 

I collect the car the following Saturday, during the drive home I noticed a clunk when taking up the drive and when changing gears, braking from above 50mph made the steering wheel shake violently, also it cut out a couple of times when I was accelerating.

 

The dealer sold me a warranty with the car, because of the faults I was unsure as to what to do, I know it has done a lot of miles but the car wasn't advertised as spares or repairs. I have only driven the car for 40miles since I picked it up.

 

I started to price up bits for the car and investigated the clonking noise, the car appears to have a worn propshaft, a new one is around £600.

 

On the Saturday after I bought the car, I decided to contact the dealer, I asked him if he would contribute to a new propshaft, say 50%, he asked me to return the car to him for a full refund.

 

Then he said will I keep the car until the new v5 arrives, at first I said yes but I need a car for my occasional work trips so I emailed him and explained my need for a car. When I first visited the dealer I explained that I needed a car for my business trips. which can be anywhere from London to darlington.

 

He then said that he has withdrawn his offer of a refund.

 

I then contacted citizens advice who advised me that I had 30 days to reject the car, I wrote a letter to the dealer giving him 14 days to refund me the money for the car, the letter was based on a template from citizens advice.

 

My question is this, if he doesn't give me a refund I assume I will have to pursue them through the small claims court.

 

I know the dealers business name but not the name of the salesman, is that enough to go to court. Also the dealers business name is apex motor company, but on there website in small print it says 'Trade Direct Cars Group' Trading as 'Apexmotorcompany.com' who do I take to court or can I take both companies to court.

 

 

Also should I get a second opinion as to the cars problems, I was going to do this by getting a quote to fix the problems.

 

Please note that I have driven the car for 40miles since purchasing it and have now purchased another car.

 

I normally buy cars privately keep them for a couple of years and then sell them on. but if I sell this car on I would advertise it as spares or repairs

[heliosuk]

In my opinion you need to consider your options carefully. You also need to state how long you have had the car. The mileage covered is irrelevant for your claim to a greater extent, it's the time you have had it.

 

 

The braking problem could be down to a multitude of reasons but at that mileage is most likely to be lower control arm mountings worn excessively. I doubt the clunk is due to the propshaft bearings. You can subscribe to the Landrover site for a thing called Topix which will give you details of all technical service bulletins etc to see if it is a known issue.

 

 

The Freelander 2 still carries the flag as the most reliable Landrover made to date and frankly it was a great shame they stopped making them. Was a brilliant and very versatile car.

 

 

If it's a 2007 car this will be one of the first made so all known issues should have been fixed.

 

 

One thing to watch for though is if you go over a speed bump a little bit too fast (14mph plus) the front end will knock/bang. This is normal and there is nothing you can do about it or the dealers can do. The car is not faulty.

Edited August 26, 2016 by Andyorch
Reference to PMing removed

[jeepster]

Hi, and thanks for taking the time to make a contribution,

 

 

I collected it on the 06/08

I contacted the car sales company on the 11/08 to advise them of the 3 problems,

they told me to bring it back for a refund,

I made arrangements to return it to them on the 13/08.

 

 

they then told me not to return it until the new v5 had arrived from the dvla.

I called the dvla and asked if there had been any progress with the v5 and they said they had no information about it and it may take up to 6 weeks.

 

I spoke to the car sales company and told them that I needed a car asap for my work, can they take the car back, they then withdrew the offer of a refund.

 

I then contacted the cab on Tuesday 16 of august and they advised me that I had 30 days to reject the car.

 

I wrote a letter to the car sales company rejecting the car using a template provided by the cab on the 16 of august.

 

I sent that recorded delivery to the car sales company and they received it on the 17 of august.

 

In the letter I stated the sales of goods act and gave the company 14 days to give me a full refund.

 

I have heard nothing from the company, if they don't give me a refund I will take advice from the cab.

 

I disagree with what you say about the mileage,

I feel that if I drive the car in its current condition then I am accepting the car,

the propshaft is definitely worn,

 

 

I asked the people at my local mot station to investigate the noise. there is play at the front of the prop shaft.

Re the brakes, when driving at speed say 60 mph the steering is very precise,

there is no knocking from the suspension when going over speed bumps, or when manoeuvring so I don't believe the car has worn suspension, but when braking from say 50mph the wheel shakes violently, the previous owner has fitted new discs and pads perhaps to cure this problem.

 

I work mainly from home but I do need a car for occasional business trips, last Monday I had to travel to Hereford, which is a round trip of approximately 200 miles, today I have to travel to bishop Auckland which is approx. 300 miles.

So if I use the car I will put 500 miles on it.

 

I feel its best not to use the car, until this is resolved,

the cab also told me that the car sales company could levy a surcharge for the amount of miles that I have covered, so far the car has done 42 miles whilst in my care.

 

If I was to sell the car on I would have to describe it as spares or repairs which would reduce the value of it, so if they don't give me a refund I will get quotes for the repairs needed and also get a report on the cars condition, the engine / gearbox and the rest of the transmission are all fine considering the mileage, but it needs a new propshaft that will cost around £500 + fitting.

 

Initially when I first contacted apex I asked if they would make a 50% contribution to the cost of a new propshaft, they rejected this and told me to return the car for a refund. I hope that the brakes may be poor wheel alignment, the cutting out may be a blocked fuel filter or at worst a new fuel pump may be required.

 

At the moment the only option I have is to contact the cab for more advice, if I don't get a refund and then persue apex for a refund through the courts.

 

I have had to purchase a replacement car which I am collecting on 03/09.

[heliosuk]

Well I think you have over reacted and it looks like the dealer might have taken legal advice hence the withdraw of offer.

This put's it all into stalemate.

 

 

I'm not sure I agree with your findings so far and I'm confident what I have previously said stands and am confident I could show your mot guys why they might be wrong.

....but then I could be too as there is always a first. I do know rather a lot about these cars though ;-)

 

Good luck with your claim though it's potentially flawed :-0

[jeepster]

hi, thanks for you input,

I have had a quote to fix the noise from a landrover specialist and they have diagnosed a worn propshaft.

I am also going to take it to landrover and ask them to diagnose and quote to fix the noise and the braking problem.

 

According to trading standards who I spoke to today, they agreed with cab that the missing v5 isn't a reason not to give me refund.

 

Unfortunately its not the traders decision as to whether I can reject a car or not, if the car isn't fit for purpose and or isn't as described then I have grounds to ask for a refund.

 

Lastly you must have loads of experience with landrovers if you can diagnose a fault without even seeing the car.

I need an engineers report on the cars condition, what do you charge and are you qualified to do such a report

[heliosuk]

Unfortunately I can't do assessments for anyone but my current employer

and to do one properly would take me at least 4 hours.

Indeed I Do know rather a lot about Land Rovers especially the freelander 2.

 

 

The problems you describe I would expect to see with a freelander 2 at this age and mileage.

Infact they are relatively minor.

 

 

The issue as I see it is that if you go to court and reject the car you don't have a solid case .

The law is quite specific on this where that the car should be commensurate with age and mileage and in my opinion it is.

 

 

The freelander 2 had a design life of 10 years or 150000 miles and you are well over the design life and it would be absurd to think the car is perfect at this age and mileage.

 

 

You have a car that is what it is, is not dangerous as the issues can be sorted out.

Would be interested to know what you paid for it!

 

Sorry to sound brutal but you get what you pay for.

 

Having said that,

agree some sort of deal with the dealer to get the car up to scratch and you'll enjoy some many happy miles of very comfortable motoring in all conditions.

 

 

But to go to court over this is a falicy and will probably go against you if the dealer does his homework!!!

[jeepster]

Sorry to be brutaul but you dont know what you are talking about, you are just an [removed]

the act says, the car must be

 

Of satisfactory quality

– of a standard you would expect considering its age, make, model, history, mileage and price

 

Fit for purpose

– you must be able to use the vehicle for the purposes you would normally expect, and if you want to use it for something specific, such as towing, tell the dealer

 

As described

– if the dealer or the advert says there is a CD player or heated seats, they should be present and work properly

 

Roadworthy

– the Road Traffic Act makes it illegal for anyone to sell a car that is not fit and safe to drive.

 

An old car will have problems,

however bigger problems that means the vehicle isnt fit for purpose are a valid reason to pursue the dealer through the courts. thats what i have been told by trading standards.

 

If the car wasnt fit for the road then he should have sold it as spares or repairs and made me collect it on a low loader or trailer.

 

Also a car is a collection of components,

as they fail they should be replaced,

this car has problems that need attention before it is safe to drive,

thats what i have been told by a landrover main agent.

 

if you wish to respond to this post then please address the original question or dont bother me again.

as i say you are an [removed], if i see you posting on other threads talking rubbish i will comment on your behaviour

[dx100uk]

you have 14days from purchase

condition of anything matters not - it could be perfect

you don't have to have any reason within 14 days to return something under the new consumer rights act.

 

Under the Consumer Rights Act (which replaced the Sale of Goods Act in October 2015)

you have a statutory right to return something and get your money back if it's faulty.

 

But you're only entitled to an automatic refund if you return it 30 days otherwise you can must give the retailer a chance to make a repair or replacement.

 

dx

[dx100uk]

post 10 here

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?453329-Profiled-Cars-in-Pitsea-Essex-say-new-30-day-rule-is-NOT-retrospective.

[jeepster]

hi mate, the original question was along the lines of who do i take to court the company or the individuals, i know have the names of the individuals so it makes sense to involve them.

 

Then some [removed] kept replying on here stating that the problem wasnt the prop shaft and that because of the mileage i am not entitled to a refund,

 

trading standards have advised that i do have a case to ask for a refund,

mileage and age are important

however the car must be fit for purpose and safe to drive on the road in fact its an offence to sell a car that isnt road legal.

 

the trader knew that i wanted a car to tow with, this car is unreliable, the brakes dont work and the prop shaft is knocking

 

i have taken the car to an independant landrover specialist and a main landrover agent,

i asked both to diagnose the noise,

both said it was the propshaft and landrover put on the receipt for diagnosing the problem that it needs changing or it may cause damage to either the ird or the haldex unit or worse cause an accident it it was to seize or break up whilst i am driving.

 

also i took it to an mot station,

they have told me that the propshaft will fail an mot as the bearings have gone,

one of the tyres is ilegal,

 

 

they also test drove the car and reported a violent shake when braking from 50 or above.

so violent that they felt it could be dangerous.

 

 

If i dont get a refund as specified in the letter that I have written to the apex motor company in wolverhampton, i will then take it for an mot, it has only done 40 miles since i collected the car.

[heliosuk]

Well your choice not mine.

I don't have the problem, you do.

 

 

And anything you say will be nebulous anyway as you are asking for help here which is being given.

The wonderful thing about this forum is that you get good advice. How you take it is up to you!!

 

If you make any more derogatory comments against me I will take action against you as you are calling my professionalism into account now. And I will follow through

This is not a threat..

[jeepster]

hi there heliosuk you [removed],

 

are you stupid - you are missing the point, if the car wasnt roadworthy then the seller shouldn't have sold it - or should have sold it as spares or repairs.

 

A vehicle has to be fit for purpose no matter how old it is or how many miles it has done, further more selling a car in an un roadworthy condition is illegal,

 

tell me where in the consumer rights act does it say that a car over ten years old is not covered by that act.

you are a [removed] and i will be watching your posts on this site and advising others to ignore your responses to their questions.

 

The next step for me will be to pursue the owners of the business and the business via the county court,

 

Sorry to be brutaul but you dont know what you are talking about, you are just an [removed], where in the Consumer Rights Acticon 2015, does it say that cars over ten years old are not covered by that act.

 

the act says, the car must be

 

Of satisfactory quality – of a standard you would expect considering its age, make, model, history, mileage and price

Fit for purpose – you must be able to use the vehicle for the purposes you would normally expect, and if you want to use it for something specific, such as towing, tell the dealer

As described – if the dealer or the advert says there is a CD player or heated seats, they should be present and work properly

Roadworthy – the Road Traffic Act makes it illegal for anyone to sell a car that is not fit and safe to drive.

 

An old car will have problems, however bigger problems that means the vehicle isnt fit for purpose are a valid reason to pursue the dealer through the courts. thats what i have been told by trading standards.

 

If the car wasnt fit for the road then he should have sold it as spares or repairs and made me collect it on a low loader or trailer.

 

Also a car is a collection of components, as they fail they should be replaced, this car has problems that need attention before it is safe to drive, thats what i have been told by a landrover main agent.

 

if you wish to respond to this post then please address the original question or dont bother me again. as i say you are an idiot, if i see you posting on other threads talking rubbish i will comment on your behaviour

Edited August 29, 2016 by honeybee13
Insult removed.

[honeybee13]

Let's not resort to name calling please.

 

HB