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    • OK, so Idem has sent back the quickest response in history following the CCA letter from my OH. An envelope arrived today.   They've sent another copy of the original and signed, application form  from 2000 - most  of which is illegible however, husband's name, address and signature is clear - the small writing is very blurry.  They've also sent numerous A4 pages of what they say is the agreement (it's photocopies of what look likes old pages). There's no signature on it. It's just pages of A4.    Does this help us at all??   Also, am I right in thinking that day claim arrived (4th Sept) + 33 days = Monday 7th October, which is when the defence needs to be in by?   Thanks as always.
    • Hello all,    I have received a letter from Advantis in regards to an overpayment of carers allowance I received when I got a job whilst I was caring for my mother. I did not know I had to inform them etc.    Long story short, I had a compliance phonecall with carers and nothing more was said.    I stopped caring for my mum shortly after and cancelled my carers allowance too.    I was employed for 4 months at the beginning of 2018.    Apparently the DWP and carers have sent letters but I haven't responded so they've gone through Advantis to recover the amount owed. I moved house shortly after cancelling everything and had no contact from them at all.    They sent letters to my previous address so they told me that's why it's been passed onto Advantis.    Today DWP told me that the only thing they can do is take payment in full, or deal with Advantis to come up with a payment plan.    I spoke to Advantis who asked me to pay in full or in two installments, I refused and they then said they've put my account on hold for 30 days whilst I go away and work out my monthly income etc so they can go through an affordability assessment to work out how much I can pay back and how often.      What shall I do? DWP tell me there's nothing they can do as it's been passed onto Advantis.    Advantis tell me they are working on behalf of the DWP... Nobody will tell me who owns the debt.     What shall I do?    Thank you all in advance for your amazing help.     
    • Hi, I have just received a pcn from Euro Car Parks saying that my car was in one of their car parks for 13 mins without making a payment. The reason being is that my husband was waiting for me, but where he thought I would only be 5 mins I was longer because of health issues and I had to take a rest. As if this wasn't enough, unbelievably I have just received ANOTHER notice saying I had not paid for a ticket on the 9th of September. I would like to mention the car park charges are so cheap, at £1:20 all day, it would be insane not to pay. We have used this car park only around 4 times and have always paid, excepting th time the car was waiting for 13mins. What a shock I have got receiving these notices. I wonder if I accidentally keyed in my registration incorrectly? Please can someone advise.
    • I also have a similar problem with Advantis for DWP overpayment of carers allowance. I've only just moved into my own house and they've sent a letter asking for my whereabouts and a business matter that needs my urgent attention. I have found out from the DWP and carers that I owe £1,131 and Advantis want me to go through an affordability assessment.    I am not sure who owns the debt, DWP or Advantis and where I stand with this 
    • I've just had this emailed from CarMoney. I'm so confused, I really don't know what I'm supposed to be doing and with whom. "Apologies for the delay in response. I have spoken to Oodle regarding the complaint and unfortunatly, they would require an independent report to be carried out on the vehicle. The burden of proof would lie with yourself.   I can certainly help by giving you the details of Scotia, who is the company that we use."   Everything I've read says that I did the right thing by exercising my rights under the CRA 2015 with the dealer. That was done within the six-months, so the burden of proof should be on the dealer still? Or am I completely wrong??
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i have been dealing with housing options as well.

this is about my landlord misleading me from the start with fraudulent tenancies. ie

1 making me pay a bond and months total £600 for my own tenancy in a two tenancy house

2 making me sign and witness the other tenants tenancy and £600 when, in actual fact, he had not paid a bond or months rent at all. i was told this three months later by the landlord in a recorded meeting

3 the landlord did not protect my bond and as a result of this, I am in a horrendous position

4 the landlord returned my bond 2 months after i paid it and then claimed that the tenancys signed were now actually a single shared tenancy

5 making me responsible for the other tenants debts

6 the landlord is now lying to the court in claims against me which i want to defend

7 he has mislead the court about arrears (that i was not in)

etc etc

 

housing options have applied for legal aid on my behalf. legal aid said i should apply for legal help but housing options applied for more legal aid and were granted full aid

they say the notice the landlord gave me is wrong but they dont seem at all interested that the landlord commited fraud in the creation of the tenancies and the way i see it is that housing options are assisitng the landlord in misleading the court because if the tenancys were fraudulent, the landlord should be being investigated and housing options should be challenging the landlord about this and disclosing this to the court in the public interest.

 

i believe when looking at the solicitors code of conduct, that fusion housing should be looking into this and not just seemingly trying to process me into alternative accomodation

 

i asked fusion housing for a copy of the court bundle documents and have been told that i will need to make a data subject access request that will take 40 days to process if i want to see my own court documents.

this is unhelpful as i am due in court on september 5th, in a couple of weeks.

 

i would like to withdraw my permission for them to act for me and i would like to represent myself in court

i need to make a notice of acting in person letter but am unfamiliar with the correct procedure to follow

i understand the court can only allow me 40 or so days extra in the house.

but really i want to defend the allegations the landlord is making against me. i have a solid defence

fusion housing have said that i dont need to defend the landlords POC. as far as im concerned they are his particulars of claim and if i dont defend them i am allowing them to be on the court record. i really dont feel comfortable with the way this is bieng handled and the way housing options have seemingly taken over and are proceeding with my case

i am alarmed to see that the solicitor is earning between £56 to £200 + an hour.

i have no idea what they are doing with my file or what is happening

i have asked to see my file and am now asking for a copy of the court documents. both are not forthcoming.

 

any help or advice would be very much appreciated.

 

housing options have applied for legal aid on my behalf. legal aid said i should apply for legal help but housing options applied for more legal aid and were granted full aid

they say the notice the landlord gave me is wrong and that they will be representing me at court but they dont seem at all interested that the landlord commited fraud in the creation of the my tenancy. i find that alarming

 

i understand the court can only allow me 40 or so days extra in the house and am desperately looking for alternative accomodation.

 

fusion housing have said that i dont need to defend the landlords POC. as far as im concerned they are his particulars of claim and if i dont defend them i am allowing them to be on the court record. i really dont feel comfortable with the way this is bieng handled and the way housing options have seemingly taken over and are proceeding with my case

i am alarmed to see that the solicitor is earning between £56 to £200 + an hour.

i have no idea what they are doing with my file or what is happening

 

i asked fusion housing for a copy of the court bundle documents and have been told that i will need to make a data subject access request that will take 40 days to process if i want to see my own court documents.

this is unhelpful as i am due in court on september 5th, in a couple of weeks.

 

can i do an acting in person letter to the court and charity and get some control back over my file?

 

how many sets of wet signatures should there be when signing one contract?

 

I am asking this because my landlord says there is only one contract attached to this house.

 

when i signed my contract, i was lead to believe that the other tenant had a contract as well as me. both contracts were signed and witnessed. the landlord took them away to copy them

 

i would have thought that if there was only one contract then there should be only one set of signatures

 

there is something wrong here as there are now three copies of signed tenancies. each one has a different set of signatures. the landlord has them all but I have copies. I dont remember signing 3 contracts and my signature looks very odd in contract 3 ( which the landlord has submitted to court as the main contract)

 

the reason i think there is something wrong here is because each one shows that a bond and months rent of £600 were paid at the signing of the tenancies and each one has been signed separately. it is clear to see as the signatures are not identical, so there were different tenancies that were signed

 

does that mean these tenancies say there was 1800 paid to the landlord at the start of the tenancies or just £600?

 

is this one tenancy or three?

 

when i signed my tenancy, i paid £600.(bond and rent)

 

the landlord now claims that there was one tenancy and that it is a joint tenancy

 

when i signed my tenancy, the landlord and other tenant lead me to believe that he had paid £600 as well and i was asked to sign and witness his tenancy. i found out three months later that the other tenant had not paid anything at the start of the tenancys and i have been mislead from the start

 

the landlord returned my bond after two months and did not protect it. when i gave it him back he tried to say he wasnt taking a bond and the £300 he took back was for the other tenants rent but later changed his mind

 

i believe at that point the tenancys were changed and bonds altered , i became liable for the other tenants debts

 

the other tenant had lived here for a few years before i moved in

 

there was already a bond on the house when i moved in. the old bond was then repaid to the tenant after i moved in even though the tenant was in arrears and there were outstanding repairs when i moved in.

 

when i signed and witnessed the new tenancys the tenant did not pay a bond or months rent but i was lead to believe he had by both of them because they had filled the tenancys to show he had paid £600. in reality, the other tenant was in debt at the start of the new tenancys and they had both lied to me

 

now the landlord says it was just one tenancy and we are joint tenants and he wants his house back

 

if it really was one tenancy why are there so many versions and why was i the only one who paid anything?

 

i feel i was used from the start to get the old bond returned to the old tenant so that the landlord could get him out. the old tenant is heavily in debt and has made no attempt to pay rent or bills. the landlord has allowed this to happen and made no attempt to rectify this.

i have been paying my rent and was paying the bills ( his debts!) although i cant access data about the accounts. the bills were in the other tenants name before i moved in. the landlord didnt change this. i believe there were already debts before i moved in and this is why they stayed in the old tenants name.

 

the landlord has been free to manipulate all this and i am finding it difficult to get help or advice regarding the validity of the signed contract or contracts and i am confused as to where i stand.

 

i realise the landlord can ask for his house back at any time but i think the way this has been done is very wrong. i would never have left my old home to be on a joint tenancy anyway and especially with someone who was already in debt

 

i have repeatedly tried to discuss the tenancy, rent, bills and bond with the landlord. i started recording the visits. the landlord was doing monthly inspections and coming without notice. i was being bullied by them both. here is an extract of a recording of a visit without notice from the landlord where the bond was discussed. when the landlord gave me the £300 bond back in january, i gave it straight back to him. he took the money away but did not leave a reciept. I paid my rent into the bank a few days later.

 

(AA is the landlord, AR is me.)

.......

 

AA this is what I'm gonna do right, this is what I think should happen, yeah? So this £250, right, that you already put in and this £50

AR £300

AA is £300 right. By all rights yeah That money is next months money for you, yeah

AR or my bond

AA I'm not taking a bond. I cant take a bond right. You have a month or two months I think under the - that's why within two months I came to see you before the end of two months

AR two months? You've 14 days to pay the bond in

AA right so

AR to the bond bank, but you didn't tell me for two months

AA. yeah so it didn't happen. Yeah

AR I could have got somewhere else

AA yeah so it didn't happen, right but just hear me out here yeah? Look, I couldn't put it into the bond account because Mark, yeah ? Rightly or wrongfully, wrongfully, he didn't give me the money yeah? So that's why I said, sod it, give it back. There you go yeah? So the bond is, is, forget the bond, I'm not taking a bond off ya. like I says to ya, here, you know, foolish me or whatever, but, you know, I think that's my perogative"

here is another extract regarding the bond

 

..........

AR ...so had that tenancy ended then?

AA it abso.., yes it ended, yeah. That's why you signed a new tenancy agreement with Mark

AR Right, but why did only me have to pay a bond?

AA right so you both had to pay a bond but unfortunately Mark was in rent arrears and he didn't have no money to, to, to kind of pay the rent or the bond money so that's when, remember when you? We, we, we took down, you gave me half of the bond money and to which later on I, I, I just gave that back to you because obviously it was quite clear Mark didn't have the money to pay the bond money so we gave that back"

I feel that they have both really taken advantage of me and the whole thing about the tenancys and bonds is causing me great distress.

I am trying to fully grasp what is/has happened here and how it will affect me.

 

 

 

PTDC0239.jpg

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Hi leeds1

 

Few Questions for you so please bear with me.

 

1. Could you clarify that when you mention housing options throughout your post, I assume this refers specifically to Fusion Housing?

 

2. We need more info on the Landlord i.e. how long was the tenancy, when did it start, when did it end, etc

 

3. When did Fusion Housing get involved, was it at your request?

 

4.The Landlord tenancy was this done through Fusion Housing Bond Guarantee Scheme?

 

5. The POC do you have any details at all what is being claimed, when was it issued? (If you have a copy of the POC could you post it up minus any identifiable info, see this link on how to do it:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?431533-How-to-Upload-Documents-Images-as-PDF-on-CAG-Immediately-(you-do-not-need-10-posts)


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1. Could you clarify that when you mention housing options throughout your post, I assume this refers specifically to Fusion Housing?

Yes, it does, but this is a fusion housing office up north, not the one in westminster.

 

2. We need more info on the Landlord i.e. how long was the tenancy, when did it start, when did it end, etc

it was a six month tenancy that started on November 17th 2015 and ended in May 2016.

on 18th march the landlord the landlord served a notice of posession which expired on 21st May 2016

a claim for posession of property was issued on 24th May

fusion housing told me the landlord had put off the directions hearing until September 5th

 

3. When did Fusion Housing get involved, was it at your request?

fusion housing got involved at my request early on in June. the legal aid was backdated to start from then.

 

4.The Landlord tenancy was this done through Fusion Housing Bond Guarantee Scheme?

No, the landlord did it all

 

5. The POClink3.gif do you have any details at all what is being claimed, when was it issued? (If you have a copy of the POC could you post it up minus any identifiable info, see this link on how to do it:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...-need-10-posts

 

 



  1. I am the claimant in this matter and I make this Statement from facts within my own
    knowledge;
  2. I am the owner and landlord of XXXXXXXXXXX;
  3. I signed a Tenancy Agreement with XXXX and XXXX to lease the above property on an Assured Shorthold Tenancy to commence on 17/11/2015 for a period of 6 months at a rent of £600 per calendar month (please see exhibit A attached to this Statement)
  4. I undertook and inspection of the property on 09/02/2016 and noted that the 1st Defendant had a number of pets at the above property breaching the clause 1.19 of the Tenancy Agreement; (please see Exhibit A attached to this statement)
  5. I also noted that the 1st Defendant had installed a log burner in her bedroom without prior notification and without my consent contrary to clause 1.18 of the Tenancy Agreement. (please see Exhibit A attached to this statement);
  6. I wish to sell my property, and as the Tenancy was coming to the end of term, I served separate notices upon each Defendant respectively on 18/03/2016 (please see Exhibit C attached to this Statement);
  7. These notices were served separately upon each Defendant by way of first class post for which I obtained proof of postage ( please see Exhibit C1 attached to this statement)
  8. Both Defendants were making partial payments towards rent;
  9. I wrote to both Defendants separately on 11th April 2016 detailing their respective rent arrears and requesting arrangenments be made to clear the arrears ( please see Exhibits B1 and B2 attached to this Statement)
  10. Due to my concerns following the inspection on 09/02/2016, I wrote to the 1st Defendant on 14th April 2016 raising the concerns detailed in paragraphs 4 and 5 above. ( please see Exhibit B3 attached to this Statement);
  11. The 1st defendant did not respond to the previous letters and furthermore did not pay rent in April 2016. I then wrote to 1st defendant on 27th April 2016 notifying her of the updated rent arrears as at 27th April 2016 (please see exhibit B3 attached to this Statement);
  12. The 1st Defendant has now paid her rent arrears in full on 11th May 2016;
  13. On 21st May 2016, I attended the property as agreed to collect the keys and undertake the final inspection. The 2nd Defendant was not at the property and I have been unable to contact him by telephone. The 1st defendant did not allow me access to the property for the final inspection. She indicated that she would not be returning the keys and that I would have to take her through the court process.
  14. As both Defendants have not passed on the keys to me on the date indicated on the notice, I would be grateful if the court would consider my circumstances whereby the Defendants refuse to vacate the property and kindly request posession of my property.
  15. most of this is lies and I can defend it with proof of recordings, photos, and documents.

     

    for example paragraph 4 - there was not an inspection that day. the landlord arrived with no notice and had arranged for a joiner to come to do outstanding repairs from the other tenants. the landlord includes a letter as evidence. the letter says there was a mid term inspection that day. there was not. in fact there were inspections happening monthly or more and one was planned for a few days time, on the 17th. the landlord knew that I had pets before I moved in and had made a fuss of them etc. on the 9th february I gave the landlord two letters. one was asking for notice of visits. and the other one listed concerns and we discussed my concerns about the bond and the tenant not paying rent or bills amongst other things. i recorded that meeting and have transcribed it.

     

    paragraph 5 - there is no log burner that has been installed at the property. this is an outright lie. i have photos of the fireplace. there have been no alterations at all. the landlord provides a letter as evidence. the letter says that I have fitted a wall heater in the room. it contradicts his own statement about the log burner.

     

    Paragraph 8 - my rent was up to date. the other tenant had been allowed to build up arrears without question

     

    paragraph 10 - i was not in arrears when the landlord wrote to me to say i was in arrears. he has included the letter as evidence anyway, even though he knows it is wrong

     

    paragraph 11 he refers to the letter of arrears again. he says i didnt pay in April. I did and have the receipt of the bank payment made. he refers to the letter of arrears as evidence. he has not provided accurate records of payments. he says i have not answered his letters but i have repeatedly tried to discuss the rent bond and bills with both the landlord and tenant and have been recording my attempts to rectify things and their attempts to not rectify things.

     

    paragraph 12 admits there are no arrears on my part

     

    paragraph 13 - the landlord ignored my texts and arrived to demand the keys. i asked for a meeting and asked about the other tenant. i asked for time to be able to find somewhere else. he would not tell me if the other tenant had moved out. i said i would like the court to look into the situation. when he knew that i was recording him, he left.

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Hello, you would usually sign one copy of the contract for each party signing the agreement. So if the agreement was signed by the landlord, you and the other tenant, you'd usually sign three copies so that you can each keep one copy of the contract with everyone's signatures on it.

 

There is only one contract ... not three. There are just three copies of the same contract.

 

If you'd like any input on your court proceedings, I think you would need to tell us what the landlord has claimed for in the 'particulars of claim' and what you have submitted as your defence.


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if this is true,

 

then why was I the only one who had to pay a bond and months rent?

shouldn't my copy be the only one showing £600 being paid?

why was i lead to believe that we had both paid £600 each?

why was my bond not protected?

if this was done legally then why won't the landlord acknowledge the bond that i paid? he is now suggesting that i am confused and making things up.

why bother even to return the bond to me?

why was the old bond returned to the other tenant/s a month after my tenancy started?

why was my bond returned to me two months after I paid it?

why is the landlord trying so hard to discredit me?

 

i have put up a copy of the landlords POC in post 4 of this thread...

 

Fusion housing have applied for legal aid and have my file. they say i dont need to file a defence to the landlords POC although i really think i do need to defend the POC

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post made on other linked thread moved to this thread

 

 

dx


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is this also linked to your housing charity thread?


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Hi leeds1

 

I know you posted the POC up in post#4 on this thread.

 

Could you please clarify the 'Date of Issue' on the POC (this is important as you have a certain time limit)


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is this also linked to your housing charity thread?

 

 

threads merged to residential forum

 

 

dx


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yes, this is linked to the housing charity thread.

 

the date of the POC, I think, would be May 24th when the claim for posession was dated and issued. I dont have the original copy as Fusion Housing have it.

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and why has he ended up with all the tenancies with the wet signatures on?

if we needed to sign them all then what was the point of returning photocopies?

also, if this was one tenancy with three copies that were made, with one for each of us, then why did the landlord take them all away to copy?

 

he spent time filling out the tenancy with me there. that was the tenancy that was supposed to be mine.

 

I believe when he took them away, he photocopied ONE tenancy and then bought copies back of that tenancy, apart from the signed pages. I say that because the bond paid part ( ticked box ) is photocopied exactly the same on all tenancies. I was with him when he filled the bond paid part out. and i was there to sign as a witness on the other tenancy.

 

 

so how can it have been photocopied unless it was changed when the landlord took them away and then bought them back as a rehashed photocopy.

 

could the third tenancy have been used to get the old bond back from the bond scheme? there is much heavier crossing out on that tenancy where the bond total was.

 

the landlord made a point of putting the other tenant as the main tenant.

 

 

I believe this was needed to transfer the bond back to the other tenant. once this was done, the landlord could get the tenant out easily. the bond was taken by Whitegates a few years before. the landlord had left whitegates but kept the bond as it was for a couple more years. when i moved in, the landlord started doing outstanding repairs, fitting smoke detectors, getting gas certificates, having joiner round etc all of which should have been done before i moved in.

 

it seems the other tenants had left because the remaining tenant was not paying any rent or bills. he was living there alone when i moved in. the landlord told the council that i had moved in in October which was not true. my tenancy started in November.

 

Also the bills had been changed to the tenants name in October. when my tenancy started on November 17th, bills were not put in my name or joint names. I cant access any information as they are not in my name. I found a meter reading and calculations of £1000 combined debt for the utilities. will I be responsible for these debts, if they are there?

 

the other tenant has paid nothing. will all the debt be put onto me, like the council tax has been? the council dont care who pays as long as someone does.

 

when i moved in we both got separate council tax bills. when the bond was returned, the council tax bill became combined and started coming in joint names. when i rang them they told me there is also an attached debt from the other tenant's previous home. due to ridiculous data protection rules, they couldnt tell me any more.

 

defence -

mislead me about the tenancy - i was lead to believe we were separate tenants, i have my own rooms and keys and was given my own tenancy

mislead me about the bond - didnt protect it

mislead me about the other tenant paying a bond and rent upfornt

started tenancys with the other tenant in debt

allowed the other tenant to be three months behind on the rent by february but did not make any attempt to rectify this, allowed this to increase

will not provide accurate accounting of payments made or not made

did not follow tenancy regulations by giving notice of arrears to the other tenant

tipped responsibilty of debts onto me ( the other tenant has no intention of paying anything)

mislead the council and told them that i moved in a month before the tenancy started

misleading the court with utter lies on the POC

harassment - monthly inspections, turning up without notice, insulting me, not allowing me time and privacy when my mum died, threatening to put me in a hostel

arranged visits by workmen without telling me. people were in the house and my room while i was at mums funeral

knew the other tenant was bullying me, stealing my possessions, eating my food,throwing my stuff in the bin, screaming in my face

cause me to be in hospital as a patient and then an outpatient, with stress, abdominal pains and chest pains

 

extract of recording of tenant

- MF mandy cant talk to each other you just cant talk to me.

 

 

Im trying to talk to you, every time,

do you know what I mean.

I tried to make it work but you dont.

Its all about you. All about you. Know what I mean. Everything.

 

AR what the bills and the bond?

MF bond, I dont know about that

AR and the rent?

MF look Ive got a copy of my rent. He's told you, you understand? My arrears is separate to yours, nothing to do with it. He's told you that. He's assured me that he's told you that. Ive got a copy of my rent arrears which youre not gonna see which you asked to see right which is nothing to do with you. It does not affect your tenancy. Hes told you that. Hes just told me that hes told you that.

AR well why are you having separate meetings then?

MF he wanted to see if I was alright. He wanted to tell me that he wont come and collect my rent from the house because you videoed him last time

AR because its all dodgy?

( the reason the landlord was frequently coming to the house for rent was to get it off the other tenant. my rent was paid on time and into the bank. the other tenant repeatedly didnt turn up to pay the rent. the landlord allowed this to continue.)

 

extract of recording of the other tenant regarding bills

 

MF im alright. I'm sorting it out. you know what I mean. Im trying to sort it out.

 

AR you're trying to pin more debt on me?

 

MF oh you're paranoid. I'm not trying to pin more debt on you its nowt to do with you. Its not in your name!

You could just say no!

 

AR we agreed to share!

 

MF (screaming right into my face)

SHOUTING AT ME AGAIN! STOP! STOP IT! SHOUTING AT ME! STOP SHOUTING AT ME! STOP SHOUTING AT ME STOP IT!!

 

the landlord and tenant have been in this together from the start.

 

the landlord has named us as joint defendants.

 

i want to counterclaim and they both should be the defendants. i thought i could do this by becoming a self litigant and giving Housing Options a notice of acting in person and then trying to discuss a way forward with the court

 

I do not want to stay here, i would like to be asking the court for more time. this would give me time to try and find somewhere else. i want to rent privately. i do not want to be forced into a flat with no garden, no pets allowed etc.

 

Housing Options said they could put me in higher band to try and get a house through them. i feel that this is their agenda. they dont seem to care or have the ability to challenge the landlord. perhaps it is easy for them to just process tenants into their accomodation.

 

by putting me into a higher band, they would be cliaming i had mental issues or that i wasnt coping. I think this gets them more legal aid. i dont want them making best interest decisions on my behalf. i am off work with anxiety and stress. i feel i have little to no control of how the court case will go. I dont have faith in the solicitor to follow my wishes. i feel i am just being processed through the system.

 

i think these homeless charities are outdated and no longer fit for purpose. i would like to challenge their ability to deal with rogue landlords and bring this to the publics attention.

 

there is no point suggesting landlords need to give notice of visits if no-one is holding them to account.

there is no point saying landlords should protect bonds if they can do this and get away with it.

it is obvious that housing options are using a one size fits all approach and from the amount of people who are being made homeless, it clearly isnt working.

 

it would be interesting to see what they are spending my legal aid on as i dont have a clue, or even to see the defence they are preparing

 

extract from recording of another visit from landlord

 

AR I can see why you and Mark are so friendly

AA yeah, I mean..

AR the stuff you come out with, I mean it's just not reasonable

AA How so tho' I I don't..

AR because when I have tried to clarify things, you won't discuss it. You won't discuss the bond. You won't discuss how Mark got the bond back. You won't discuss why Mark was allowed to take this tenancy on in arrears and he still is in arrears

AA he is, you're right £550

AR yeah and I'm suffering for it

AA you aren't really

AR I am having monthly visits, weekly, daily blooming constant. I feel like i've got a full time job here.

 

..........................

and another extract from the same recording

 

AR You see, if this is a joint tenancy then I'm jointly responsible for the debt which is why I want the full accounting

 

AA I told you 100% you're not.. You are, you need to ensure that the, the half, you know I don't know how you work it, you know, I didn't, you know, I was under the impression that you get on

 

AR you know, you changed the tenancy

 

AA you get on and you've known each other for ten years

 

AR what? 'Cos of what Marks told you?

 

AA but living together it just hasn't

 

AR because of what Marks told you?

 

AA (mumble)

 

AR when I'm not around?

 

AA I just want the property to be looked after, thats all

 

AR well do you think it is?

 

AA I know there's loads of stuff upstairs, I mean

 

AR what do you mean? Loads of stuff upstairs?

 

AA is that you know stuff loose and stuff like, and that is that how you want to live

 

AR that is Marks stuff, cos he's still...

 

AA OK can you show me, can you show me?

 

AR what another house inspection?

 

AA well you...

 

AR Sorry, but now what time is it?

Cos you have taken all my morning up now and now you want me to do a house inspection with no notice whatsoever and you think you're being reasonable?

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If the LL has served a s21 (two months notice would indicate that is precisely what he has done), and if he returned your deposit (for whatever reason), then the s21 is valid and there is no defence you can put forward. The most you can hope for in these circumstances is for the judge to give 42 days - however, given the date of the notice (March) and the date of the hearing (September), I would expect the judge to give a possession order within 14 days.

 

None of the rest of what you have said is relevant in relation to the actual possession proceedings in relation to a s21 notice. There is no defence to such a claim. The LL didn't even have to do a POC, he could simply have served the s21, made the application to court for possession and said 'I want my property back' and the court would have to award possession so long as the s21 was valid and appropriately served. End of.

 

The 'transcript' you give in relation to the deposit, is clear that the LL is saying he returned it because the other tenant could not raise his share of the deposit. It's not evidence for you, it's supportive of the LL that he does not hold a deposit for the property.

 

You are 'joint defendants' because there is ONE property - it doesn't matter how many tenancy agreements there are.

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thank you very much for your reply,

 

it is very similar to what Housing Options have said and reassures me in a way. i will just have to go with what they are saying and hope for a good outcome.

 

housing options also want to say that the landlord has put in an incomplete S21 document to the court because he copied it from somewhere and has not sent the full document and that he may have to apply again

 

incidently, it was the landlord who delayed the case, not me but I know that doesnt make any difference really

 

it is a shame that tenants can be treated like this. not all tenants are bad and not all landlords are good but hey ho, i have paid my rent and the bills and i have not altered or damaged anything. i am still paying rent as I relaise that if i am more than 2 months in arrears, the judge will also decide in favour of the landlord.

 

im sad to find that lying to get me to sign the tenancy is allowed to happen without question.i thought that, if the tenancy was started in fraud, he can not use a section 21 notice

 

you said "the court would have to award possession so long as the s21 was valid"

 

my argument could have been that he tenancy is fraudulent but i now realise that it is not about the tenancy but the S21 document at this stage.

 

maybe i could get extra time to find another home if the landlord has to make another S21 and application to the court

 

I will speak to housing options again this week

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leeds1, You have failed to provide any meaningful info/dates/fixed term for your TA, be it joint, room only or HMO property.

Apart from LL, you seem intent on antagonising Housing Options, the only org prepared to support you. They may realise you have little chance of defending a s21 repo and were offering alt accom.

2 month rent arrears has no bearing on Judge's decision for s21 and as Lea HTH suggests he may only grant you the min 14 days before Bailiffs can evict.

Non protection of deposit is another path you can pursue, but it will make no diff to s21 outcome, as deposit returned before s21 served.

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sorry to have not provided you with enough information etc, at this stage. however, I have received valid advice and support from CAG which is also very similar to the advice I received from Housing Options. this reassures me that I can trust the advice I am getting from HO despite the generally no so good reputation they seem to have for the way they treat and process customers.

 

I am glad you said that it might be possible to pursue the path of non protection of deposit.

actually, I am really surprised that housing options have never mentioned this to me despite the fact that they are a charity that is there to help tenants who are threatened with homelessness and who might have rogue landlord problems.

the government seem to be aware that there are unresolved problems around these issues and have released £5 million to charities in order to be able to deal with rogue landlords. i wonder where that money will be spent?

perhaps if i was in a shed with a bed, i might have be treated differently. i might not have had so much abuse, things stolen from me, or suffered damage to my credit rating and ability to find alternative private accomodation.

then again, perhaps there wouldn't be so many sheds with beds around if it hadn't have been allowed to develop so hugely without question by the charites, solicitors and authorites who claim and spend huge amounts of public funding processing bits of paper and sticking to their tried and tested, standard issue, tired and dreary routines. it does keep these charity workers, council workers et all in a well paid job though.

 

how do I start on the path to non protection of deposit? there seems to be very little, if any, information available about this?

 

 

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Theft Act section 17 False Accounting.

 

 

(1) Where a person dishonestly, with a view to gain for himself or another or with intent to cause loss to another,—

(a) destroys, defaces, conceals or falsifies any account or any record or document made or required for any accounting purpose; or

(b) in furnishing information for any purpose produces or makes use of any account, or any such record or document as aforesaid, which to his knowledge

is or may be misleading, false or deceptive in a material particular;

he shall, on conviction on indictment, be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding seven years.

 

(2) For purposes of this section a person who makes or concurs in making in an account or other document an entry which is or may be misleading, false or deceptive in a material particular, or who omits or concurs in omitting a material particular from an account or other document, is to be treated as falsifying the account or document

I know there is something very wrong with how this has all happened to me and i have been thinking.

 

Taking section 17 of the Theft Act into account, I believe I still have a bond floating about

 

there is £300 cash that the landlord took away with him on the day that he returned my bond to me which has not been accounted for.

 

I say this because I have reciepts for my rent payments which were paid through the bank

 

the landlord has put letters into the court claiming arrears which are incorrect. ( I had paid into the bank the week before he even wrote the letter) he knew his letter has the wrong accounting but he has put this into the court anyway as an exhibit

 

he has put rent schedules into court which do not accurately show the accounting. he has dated all payments as being made on the 17th. this means that pretty much all of his accounting is made up.

 

I can show when things were paid because I have bank receipts for most of my payments

 

the payment i cant show is the £300 he took away with him on bond transaction day.

 

he did not give me a receipt for rent as the rent wasnt even due for a few days and he had already arranged a future date to collect the rent and do an inspection anyway.

 

I paid my rent a few days later that month, into the bank but his accounting doesnt show this either

 

if i had paid rent that day he returned the bond and took the money with him, i would have a receipt and the accounting would show that I was in credit that month by £300. it does not

 

the landlord has made up his own dates for rent payments and does not provide accurate accounting at all in every document that shows payments of either rent, bond/s or arrears

 

when I moved into the house, there was one tenant at the property. the other two had already left. the one tenant had already changed the bills to his name.

 

he had become the main tenant.

he still had a bond on the house when I moved in. that is why I was asked to pay half of the bond which was £300.

 

the landlord has completely omitted any information about the bond/s or the return of bond/s from any accounting

 

he did not protect my original bond and then he took the £300 from me on the day that my bond was returned,

this was after he had left the prescribed documentation. in the letting guide there is a box showing the bond as paid

 

this is why I think there is a discrepancy about whether I still have a bond or not

 

the only people to have benefitted from all this are the landlord and main tenant

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