Can I cancel David Lloyd gym agreement within 7 days

[anna.rosado]

I have received the infamous ARC letter for 12 months debt

, having cancelled the membership within the 7-days cooling off period.

 

Does anyone know how to get rid of them?

I am really worried they are gonna ruin my credit score.

 

Went to CAB but so far not a lot to do and I have 14 days to pay 1,000...

 

any thoughts are more than welcome!

 

Anna

[dx100uk]

as you might have read gym debt are not carried on CRA files

 

and you don't have 14 days to pay anything.

they are NOT BAILIFFS

and have

NO SUCH LEGEL POWERS

 

however first things first

this thread belong to someone else

please go start a new thread

and i'l copy your posts here over to it

 

 

dx

[slick132]

Hi there and welcome to CAG

 

You now have your own thread to use from now on.

 

When you signed up for the gym, did you do this in the gym or elsewhere ?

 

Do not reply to ARC Europe at all just now. Wait until we have the info we need.

 

This is not likely to affect your credit score, as you will learn when reading other threads here.

 

Please see my PM to you and respond.

 

Edited August 15, 2016 by slick132

[anna.rosado]

Hi Slick,

 

I have signed up in the gym.

 

Asked for what if I didnt like it, changed my mind.

 

They said I had 7-days cooling off period.

 

i got the T&C booklet when I already signed the contract,

they didnt give it to me beforehand or directed me to any official / format T&C site.

 

Thanks

[slick132]

Hi AR,

 

In DL's T&C's, it says :-

 

5 Starting your membership

 

(f) You can change your mind about joining. To do this you will need to give notice in writing. If you

change your mind, we will refund any fees you have already paid and your entire membership

will end. You can do this at any time up to seven working days after making your membership

application or up to the first time you or any of your linked members enters your club to use the

facilities, whichever is the earlier.

 

Please tell us who has demanded £1,000 from you to be paid within 14 days, so we can suggest your best way to respond.

 

[anna.rosado]

Hi Slick,

 

yes, this is from the T&C booklet which I received having signed up to the contract and started my first day (sales left it there for me to pick it up on my first day in the gym).

 

ARC has sent the demand for the money, 12-1 month membership fee as outstanding.

 

Thank you,

AR

[slick132]

Hi AR,

 

How did you tell the gym you wanted to cancel. Did you visit and speak to someone, did you phone the gym or did you send an email.

 

Can you confirm the time and date you joined the gym and the time and date you cancelled.

 

Let us know if you have any proof from the gym, like a response to an email, or a text message received after you cancelled.

 

[anna.rosado]

Hello Slick,

 

Started on 6th June,

cancelled 13th June in person at the reception.

Completed a form, gave the reason - disappointment.

 

Nobody pointed out that I have to pay 12 months membership,

I was concerned about a refund of the £120.

Receptionist said that somebody will be in contact with regard to my refund queries.

 

Below are the correspondence - please excuse the tone sometimes.

Spanish temperament is not as cool as the local!

 

David Lloyd, Farnham

Jun 16

 

to me

Good Afternoon Anna,

 

As you are signed up onto a contract I cannot just refund you this,

there are set procedures to follow if there are issues being raised.

 

We do have to address these first and from there we can discuss the next steps.

Without knowing much detail about your reasons for feeling this way it is hard for me to try and get a positive solution out of this.

 

Are you able to go into more detail – preferably a meeting in the club will help clear this situation out and we can come up with a resolution.

 

I will be happy then to evaluate the terms and conditions and adjust these with the approval of the Manager.

But to this I need a better understanding into the ‘miscommunication’ that has gone on and what this relates to.

 

I don’t agree that you will be wasting your time,

as following this I hope you will then be able to make great use out of our facilities and services.

We value all members here and all feedback is greatly welcomed,

from this we can then start making positive improvements.

 

I’ve spoken to the Member services Manager who is happy to come to some arrangement

if we can discuss in more detail the issues you are experiencing which are leading you to feel negatively about the club.

 

I’ll await on your thoughts from this and hopefully you’ll be able to give me more of an insight.

 

Kind regards

 

Lydia Parkinson

Member Services Supervisor

David Lloyd - Farnham

01252 731354

From: xxxxxx

Sent: 15 June 2016 05:40

To: David Lloyd Farnham

Subject: Re: Case number -]

 

Hi Lydia,

 

Thank you for your email.

 

I need my money back.

I was told that you can assist with this.

I do not wish to go to David Lloyd Farnham in the foreseeable future.

I have no positive memory of that place.

 

Lizzie and the receptionist said that you were the person for the refund.

Are you or are you not?

I am not willing to waste my time any further on `miscommunication`

just because one person says this and another cites something else.

 

Kind regards,

Anna

 

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 4:34 PM, MRM.Farnham xxxxxxxx wrote:

Hi Anna,

 

I am sorry to hear that you feel this way and I really do hope we can resolve this.

 

Our escalation policy is that its followed up in the Club either with the member services Manager.

Is there a time you’re able to get into the club to have a to discuss in more detail the issues you have experienced?

From there we can look at a resolution that you can be satisfied with and get the experience you want and should deserve.

 

Please do let me know when you will be available for this discussion with a manager and we can go from there.

 

Kind Regards

 

Lydia Parkinson

Member Services Supervisor

David Lloyd - Farnham

01252 731354

From:xxxxx

Sent: 14 June 2016 15:59

To: MRM.Farnham

Subject: Fwd: Case number -]

 

Hi Lydia,

 

Thank you for your email.

 

Sorry for not being able to take your call, I was on a meeting.

 

The list of my disappointment is a very very long one.

Including miscommunication during the `amazing` sales pitch.

 

7-14 days cooling off period is a common practice among service providers,

I am not sure why David Lloyd should be an exemption.

 

If I`d known that the it was disappointing I wouldnt have joined,

however having a trial period is quite standard.

 

I have tried and despite having a very bad first workout,

I thought let`s give it a chance. It didnt get any better.

 

Going to the gym in the morning is paramount for me.

If it is £120, then that`s the price for as long as I get value for my money.

 

Unfortunately DL could not meet with my requirements.

I was led to believe that this is a top of the range facility.

Well... no it is not.

 

Thank you for your email,

but I do not find it satisfactory with regard to the refund.

I will escalate it further and the very long list of my `observation` will be sent to your Member Experience Director, Mia Manson-Bishop.

 

Kind regards,

Anna

 

---------- Forwarded message ----------

From: David Lloyd Farnham

Date: Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 3:46 PM

Subject: Case number [#-

To: xxxxxxx

 

## In replies all text above this line is added to the case ##

 

David Lloyd Leisure - Member Experience

 

Reference No: ...........

 

Good Afternoon Anna,

 

I have just tried to contact you regarding this as it would be easier to discuss your request over the phone,

however only managed to leave a voice mail. (SHE DIDNT!)

 

First of all i'd like to find out the reasons why you're disappointed and wish to not continue your membership?

 

This cooling off 7 day period is for those members who change their mind about membership within 7 days.

In the terms and conditions it states that you can cancel in writing any time up 7 days after making your membership application or up to the first time you or any linked members enters the club to use the facilities, whichever is the earliest.

 

The 7 day doesn't unfortunately work like a trial if you do not want to continue.

I can see you have used our facilities on a few occasions since you joined

therefore this 7 day cooling off period does not apply

and I cannot process a cancellation or refund for this time.

 

I'd like to be able to resolve this situation if I could get more details in the reason behind you not wanting to continue.

We will always encourage and help advise the best steps into using our facilities

but I hope the issue you have had can be dealt with

and we can get you back into the club enjoying the facilities.

 

I'm here until 17.30 today so if you're able to call me to discuss then that would be better,

if not please don't hesitate to email me directly on xxxxxx and i'll be happy to discuss.

We value all are members here and I really hope you'll give me the opportunity in guiding you to make the most out of our facilities.

 

Kind regards

Lydia Parkinson

Member Services Supervisor

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I called them several times, they havent called me.

They promised a call this week, nothing

(yes, I checked whether they had my phone number).

 

Received the ARC letter on Saturday (13th August),

called Farnham, talked to Lydia, she promised to escalate and call me back by Tuesday

. Today is Thursday morning.

 

What shall i do?

 

Any thoughts?

 

Thank you,

Anna

[dx100uk]

so they owe you £120?

in your 1st post they were chasing a debt?

 

which is it please

[anna.rosado]

Well, I wanted to have a refund!

which was 120 for the first month.

 

That was the whole conversation about.

 

At no point, they mentioned that I would need to pay 12 months membership.

 

ARC - debt collectors - sent a letter asking for 12 minus 1 month `outstanding` membership fee.

 

Thanks,

Anna

[dx100uk]

must be the muggy weather here I'm getting totally lost...

 

so you paid £120 upfront

then cancelled

and didn't get your £120 back?

 

AND you've arc chasing?

or is that why they were chasing?

you did get the £120 back?

[BazzaS]

Is the problem the interpretation of

"You can do this at any time up to seven working days after making your membership application or up to the first time you or any of your linked members enters your club to use the facilities, whichever is the earlier." ?

 

I would read that as "you can cancel any time up to seven working days after the earliest of:

a) your membership application or

b) first time you or any of your linked members enters your club to use the facilities

 

So my initial response was "if Anna filled out a cancellation form (so it was in writing), within 7 days, why are they being so difficult?

 

However, looking back, they may be saying it should be read as : you can cancel up until the earliest of either:

a) 7 days of signing up if you don't use the facilities or

b) the point just before "the first time you or any of your linked members enters your club to use the facilities"

Are they saying "the 7 days period only applies if you haven't entered to use the facilities, there is no '7 day trial'"

 

Is that the issue?

If so I'd be tempted to point out that the term is ambiguous, you believed (were led to believe?) it was a 7 day trial, and that you'd be happy to let a court rule on it, since the consumer legislation will interpret the ambiguity in your favour!

 

I suspect that

a) they won't stand a chance of making you pay for the year, but

b) you may not get back your initial month's payment (since they are entitled to something as you have used the facilities)

 

If they won't give you the first months money back, you'd be within your rights to use the facilities for that month!

[anna.rosado]

Hello DX,

 

I wanted to have my first month membership back as I cancelled it within 7 days.

nope, they didnt pay it back either.

But all the communication was about my disappointment and refund.

 

I went in, cancelled it within 7 days of starting using it.

 

At no point I was told that I would need to pay (use!) that gym for 12 months.

 

I cancelled it because I wasnt happy with the standards.

It was appalling.

if they were any good, I wouldnt have needed to cancel it

and I would be a happy gym member to date

and wouldnt have needed to embarrass myself in front of my new boss

and ask him to start later because I need to use another gym.

 

@bazzaS

 

Thank God, it is not just my language barrier.... I thought I was the only one who found it misguiding.

 

I didnt want to use that gym for another day! I didnt even want to go in again. They gave me vouchers when I joined and gave everything back. it was in appalling condition, not clean and the staff was certainly NOT friendly!

 

Certainly do not like David Lloyd...

 

Thank you Guys!

 

Anna

[dx100uk]

ok so

WHAT did you pay at sign up?

[anna.rosado]

120 on sign up, on site by card. no DD.

 

Thank you,

Anna

[dx100uk]

go do a chargeback with you bank.

 

end of your refund issue

 

you cancelled within 14days

[the EU regs]

so they cant argue

[anna.rosado]

Haha! nice try! I think that would really annoy them

 

I try to avoid to pay the other £1,000 they claim through ARC.

 

So should I send an email now?

saying that you had nearly a whole week to response (called them on Saturday)

and you havent even had the courtesy to come back to me!

 

 

I wish I had enough money and I could take them to court!!!

 

Thanks

[slick132]

Hi AR and I'm pleased to see you are now able to post on the thread. We can only deal with matters by PM when there are good reasons for keeping information out of public view.

 

As I understand it, you used the gym several times but were not satisfied. The T&C's for DL say you can only get a refund IF you cancel within 7 days of joining AND you have NOT used the gym.

 

So I don't think you'll get a refund unless you can show that the facilities were not of the standard you could reasonably expect. And I do not think you should try doing a chargeback on your debit card until we know what the complaints were.

 

What you REALLY need to focus on is cancelling the m/ship to avoid being responsible for paying the remaining 11 months fees.

 

Can you tell us very briefly what was wrong with the gym, equipment, facilities, staff or members that you felt gave you reasons to cancel the m/ship.

 

[anna.rosado]

Hi Slick,

 

I agree, that £120 is in my P&L... so it is gone. That was the focus in June, but now I am trying to avoid the remaining 11 months.

 

Issues with the gym - heads up, I am VERY fussy about my gym. I go there every morning, use it as a social environment and the best stress release (after having cakes!) - so dont be judgemental

- I was told the treadmill would go down (decline), it didnt. When I asked the PT, he said that `the Sales girl knows nothing about the machines` Clearly.

- there was no BBC News on the built-in TV - I watch it every morning

- cross trainers - my favourites were very short! (I am tall, 6`3", tall-ish) and kept hitting my knees in the console! tried multiple ones, but they were for shorties

- cross trainers - my program has moving forward then backward in it, Sales pitch girl said that of course it can do it - nope, it couldnt.

- Boditrax - it measures fat, water in your body, (separate for limbs, core...etc), you can track your progress in turning the fat into muscle, whether you have enough intra-, extracellular water, how dehydrated you are...etc - one main reason I signed up. It was out of order during the whole week! one PT said it was going to be repaired by tomorrow, the other that it is off for weeks... pathetic!

- staff never smiled at me

- there was no team spirit (the amount of jealousy and dislike was palpable) - they kept talking the others down. Oh she doesnt know anything, oh she shouldnt have said that...etc

- there was no cleaning material. (gym is a sweaty environment, nothing wrong with that, BUT provide us with tools to clean the machines after use!) there were fairy tales about it too...

- somebody dropped a tissue to the floor. PT walked past it without picking it up. Appalling! you blooming pick it up! Even if you are the manager!

- they claimed to have 24/7 cleaning staff keeping the gym and spa facilities spotless. Well, I am sure you are familiar with wall mirrors having dirty fingers on them. Try to multiply them by dozens. Those mirrors were not cleaned for weeks! (at the weight, core section). Furthermore, the machines always had a surprise cap of dodgy Lucozade or other `energy drinks` or just basic rubbish, like tissues... in the bottle holder.

- changing rooms! - guys, you probably have no clue what I am talking about, but having a dressing shelf covered in hair and make up powder that you cannot even put your own make-up bag down...? that was really bad. Day 2 - i took Dettol wipes with me!

- no decent size discreet changing cabin. You get changed in front of everyone. And some of them were staring!!! like they have never seen a tall foreign woman! (and yes, before you wonder, I went into the Ladies changing room!)

- you could get padlocks if you didnt have you own for the lockers (padlocks? honestly??? - everywhere they have cards! or at least tokens... but padlock? - so dodgy!) so they kept changing whether I had to pay deposit, or nothing or leave my card there or I didnt get anything... depending on the Receptionist.

- staff didnt welcome / smile when they were coming in from the car park, so not in the building.

 

the only thing I liked was the size of the shower!

 

You might think that these are not that `relevant` reasons, but when you pay a hell lot of money and you are very particular about the gym, then these things matter! Food, clothes, shoes, cars, handbags, fashion... I dont care, but the gym is priority!

 

They have ruined it!

 

They mislead me about the equipment and machines and their capabilities, Boditrax and their knowledge about how to put a proper workout together.

 

Do I have a case to be ****ed off?

[slick132]

Hi AR,

 

Thank you soooo much - this is the best report about poor gym conditions I've ever seen AND it made me laugh several times. And YES, I think you DO have grounds to be ****ed off !

 

I'm pleased you're happy to focus on avoiding the remaining 11 months fees and not worry about the £120 paid ofr the first month.

 

1. Did you tell the gym about all these problems when you were still attending.

 

2. Or have you told them by email about the problems since you left.

 

I can't see the details mentioned in the email exchanges you posted above.

 

We can help you complain on 3 main points :-

 

Firstly about the sign-up girl failing to tell you exactly how and when you could cancel, when you asked her.

 

Second, about her telling you wrong info about the equipment in the gym.

 

Thirdly, about the failings by the gym to provide equipment and cleanliness that you could reasonably expect.

 

[anna.rosado]

Hi Slick,

 

Thanks having read it back, it did ME smile.

 

1. Well... I am not getting intimated easily so I told them several times. Gave them the reasons when I was leaving and signing the cancellation form. I was very verbal about my disappointment. Especially when it was sold to me like the flagship branch of a premium provider!

 

2. I called them and told them on the phone when they didnt give my refund back! I might have raised my voice slightly...

 

and I really like the last few sentences! I have a ground (to be....you know!)

 

Thanks

[slick132]

Hi Anna,

 

From now on, you need to stay off the phone completely. Use emails or written letters to deal with this from now on.

 

You need to draft a letter pointing out :-

 

1. The ways in which you were disappointed by the sign-up girl (as per my last post) about giving you T&C's AFTER you'd signed; telling you you could cancel within 7 days; misleading you about equipment (as confirmed by her own staff colleagues).

 

2. The ways in which the gym failed to meet your reasonable expectations about the equipment (machines not doing what you were told they would, or being broken); cleanliness including litter, lack of cleaning staff or cleaning material for you to use; lockers needing padlocks; etc.

 

Keep it as short as you can but I'll amend it if I think it's necessary. And I'd avoid too much about the staff not being smiley and friendly - that is perhaps too subjective to back up your case.

 

[anna.rosado]

Thank you Slick!

 

I will take your advice, pen a letter and stay off the phone (I am really not lady-like when I lose my temper on the phone...)

 

I will share the draft with you, if you dont mind, so you (and other interested members) can cast their eyes over it.

 

Thank you for your help!

 

AR

[slick132]

Hi AR,

 

It's far more useful to keep your temper under control when speaking or writing to the other side.

 

Post your draft letter up when you're ready and I'll suggest any changes I think are needed.