Beneficial Bank Credit Card - Vintage claim

[Blofeld69]

When moving house recently i came across a file detailing every statement for a credit card I had in the late 1990's that went into default, eventually leading to a CCJ that took me years to clear. Thankfully I was able to clear it, but at a fairly hefty cost.

 

As a result of the CCJ, the collection agency the debt was sold to by HFC (now HSBC), TBI Financial, added all the interest right up until judgement, and right up until it was paid in full, some four years after judgement in 2007.

 

Thankfully, because I contested some of the charges at the time, TBI were asked by the court to provide evidence of the agreement as well as statements. Copies of every transaction and charge were also forwarded to me.

 

Just before i was about the shred and dispose of all this documentation, I noticed, when glancing at the statements, that I had been paying PPI throughout the time I had the credit card and a large percentage of the CCJ would have been made up of the PPI payments, plus all the interest on this.

 

I know I can lodge a complaint to try and recover the PPI as I believe it was mis-sold at the time as I can remember being told that I would be more eligible for the credit card if I signed up for PPI, even though I was on a fixed term contract at the time. However, I'm sure HSBC will reject it on the basis that they do not keep records dating that far back, plus I suspect that as they sold the debt to TBI, all paperwork would have passed to them.

 

My question is, as I have copies of everything, can I use these assuming the claim is rejected? or is this actually too old to lodge a complaint on in the first place.

 

Any advice would be much appreciated, especially on how to follow this up.

 

Many thanks.

[aburobert]

This may be of interest to me as well as I had an ancient Beneficial card that defaulted and was sold on but am currently not rocking the boat as I hope it will be statute barred soon.

[dx100uk]

yes you can reclaim.

HFC fleeced everyone blind

and sadly in your case...they got you twice...

 

they handed you on to one of their ex employees at TBI and they fleeced you further..

 

theres as such no legal remit to charge any interest back to the date of assignment to judgement

AND

theres as such no legal remit to allow post judgemental interest either.

so they fleeced you blind.

 

as for the PPI

 

get out the statements

pop each PPI payment individually into the CISHEET spreadsheet.

enter their int rate in cell d15.

end the spreadsheet [claim to date] on the date you made your final payment after the CCJ.

 

pop back and well go from there

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?330996-Latest-Spreadsheets-PPI-Claims-and-Charges-Claims-Dec-2011

[Blofeld69]

Great, thanks for this, will do.

 

i've sent a letter off to HSBC's complaint department and I await their response with interest (no pun intended).

 

The debt when it fell in to default was around £6,000. When I paid the judgement off, accumulated interest, court costs etc... meant the debt had risen to over £15,000.

 

I accept that the debt was all my fault, largely due to circumstances beyond my control, but it did shock me how big the debt soon escalated. It was only due to some fortuitous financial legacy that gave me the opportunity to settle it.

 

To be able to claim back the PPI part would certainly make the mistake easier to swallow.

[dx100uk]

if you want scan up all the statements etc

follow the upload

somethings not right here

how can a debt go from £6k to £15k ruddy fleecers

 

 

sadly its not the first time we've seen this

they didit to 1000's of people - hfc were a terrible terrible co. for caring about customers

[Blofeld69]

Thank you, I will do this, although I can't get to a scanner until Monday, but, will do this then.

 

Many thanks again for your advice and help.

[Blofeld69]

Here is all the data I've been able to gather. It paints a very sad story.

 

Thankfully I have print outs for all the statement dates, all of which were used in the court judgement. TBI applied, and were granted interest at 15% per annum on the debt until I was finally able to pay it off.

 

When the debt went into default, based on my simple calculations, I'd paid the best part of £1,300 over 3+ years.

 

I've not heard back from HSBC as yet, but when they respond with the usual refusal based on not keeping data this old, I'll happily be able to provide them copies.

 

I've even got the paperwork of the transfer of the debt to TBI, who paid over £3,000,000 for the book of bad credit. There is clearly big money to be made from debt collection!

 

Sadly I don't have the first couple of years statements (94-96) but, it's clear that PPI was being charged from day one. Let me know if you need any more detail.

 

Many thanks in advance.

PPI Payments.pdf

[dx100uk]

that's incredible!!

so the CCJ was awarded with 15% PA post judgemental interest.?

 

 

have you still got the judgement or CCJ?

[Blofeld69]

I certainly have.

 

I was reading through it all last night.

 

I also have the final letter from TBI's lawyers, confirming full and final settlement in 2007.

 

I was shocked at the amount I had to pay them.

 

I went down the route of trying to agree a settlement figure which was rejected.

 

To say they were ruthless in their pursuit is an understatement.

[dx100uk]

yea but they ripped people off blind

 

 

so there is a judgement that clearly states post judgemental interest shall be charged at 15%PA until the judgement sum is cleared

or words to the effect?

[Blofeld69]

Correct.

 

The court papers state 15% per annum until settled.

 

Being able to at least get the PPI back would make it a slightly less bitter pill.

 

Presumably, if the complaint is upheld, which I appreciate is not guaranteed,

 

i'll be able to get the interest back at the rate they charged me?

[dx100uk]

yes you work out the % that PPI was of the original PCM figure - say 13%

 

 

so anything you paid on whatever date to whomever = 13% of that is PPI

you then enter these - EACH AND EVERY PAYMENT OF PPI INDIVIDUALLY ON ITS OWN ROW

into the statint sheet.

 

 

how to calc PPI....

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?318646-PPI-Single-Premium-Your-questions-answered(1-Viewing)-nbsp

 

 

spreadsheets

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?330996-Latest-Spreadsheets-PPI-Claims-and-Charges-Claims-Dec-2011

statint one for ppi

 

 

FOS CQ

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/technical_notes/ppi.html

[Blofeld69]

Great, thanks for this.

 

I'm still a little confused how to best calculate this.

 

Although I paid PPI from 1994,

I only have statements from 1996 onwards to 1999.

 

So i've entered the actual charges from the statements I do have and over the period from 1996 - 1999.

 

Should I just write off the earlier years as I can't prove it,

although it's obvious I was being charged PPI throughout?

 

For what I can prove,

I paid just over £1,200 in PPI from the period of 1996 - 1999, as per the attached file.

 

I've added all the PPI payments that I have a record for into the calculator

and it looks as if my claim should be for around £16,000

 

I've calculated this on the basis of the 15% i was being charged until the debt was settled 2007

and have kept this rate to calculate to everything to today's date.

 

Does this sound about right?

Many thanks

[dx100uk]

no that's not right

use the statint sheet

[that auto calcs the 8% statint you are entitled too

whatever rate the loan was

or what you got charged later is IMMATERIAL.

 

you can only claim statint [8%] which is what the sheet does automatically.

 

as for the months you do not know what PPI you paid

you are quite within your right to use the avg of all you PPI payment say fot the year before or agter the ones you do not know.

 

so back to what I explained...

the calculation that is all so important.

 

do you have the agreement?

 

total for PPI/total for loan+PPI*100=PPIPCM%

[Blofeld69]

Arr, I see. I've used the wrong calculation spread sheet.

 

 

Yes, I do have the original Credit Card agreement

and I can grab the original interest rate from that and enter the monthly balances from the statements.

I'll give it a go and see how I get on.

[dx100uk]

oopps my bad

dunnno why I thought it was a loan

 

you are correct.

 

the best sheet to use is the FOSRUNNING

but you've not got all the statements

 

so

FOSCISHEET might be the one for you.

[Blofeld69]

I've had my final response letter back from HSBC

which states that their belief is that PPI did not exist on the credit card account,

so unless I can prove otherwise,

they have rejected my claim.

 

Thankfully I have evidence that shows that it did have PPI

and copies of statements that clearly show PPI being charged monthly at a rate of £0.72 per £100.

 

I'll reply to HSBC with copies of what I have,

but is there any specific wording I should use when sending the letter?

 

The copies of statements amounts to over 100 pages.

It will be a massive envelope!

 

Do I need to send a copy of every statement?

or do you think I can just send one that shows the account did have PPI?

Thanks in advance.

[dx100uk]

pop them on a cheap penstick

and send that in or a dvd/CD

[Blofeld69]

I spoke to HSBC and unfortunately they have said they will not take receipt of a memory stick or DVD. Originals only.

That's fine, I can send them, I'll just add the cost of postage to the claim!

 

I do find it somewhat amazing that the banks can sell you stuff online,

push online banking,

push paperless statements

but, when you raise a complaint you cant send anything by any form of electronic medium!

[Blofeld69]

I wonder if I may ask for some help relating to the calculation of my PPI?

 

I've used the spreadsheet and entered as much detail as I have which calculates a figure of £2487.49 for PPI including 8% interest up to the point the card went into default in 1999. So there was an outstanding credit card balance of £7,480.91 which by the time the CCJ came in 2003 was up to over £9,000. (see attached pdf)

 

By the time I was finally able to clear the debt in 2007, it had risen to £19,000. All of this is well documented and I have court correspondence and a letter to confirm full and final settlement from TBI's lawyers.

 

Is my total claim therefore just for the time PPI was charged? or do I take the above figure of £2487.49 and add interest to this figure up to today's date? and if so, at which rate?

 

All help much appreciated.

PPI Calc.pdf

[dx100uk]

you are entitled to claim the 8% stat int up until they settle.

so claim to date runs until then =()today is it the formula?

[Blofeld69]

Just in the way of an update, having sent all my statements off to HSBC, they have responded with a mis-selling claim form similar to the FOS one.

 

Having initially claimed they had no record of PPI on the account, they do now at least concede that I was charged PPI.

 

I'll fill it in and send it off. Fingers crossed.

[dx100uk]

you sent them the FOS CQ already though?

[Blofeld69]

No, I sent them a letter of complaint outlining account numbers for the Credit Card and the reasons why I believed I was mis-sold PPI.

 

The first response was a denial that PPI existed. I then sent Statements showing that it was indeed being charged, and they sent me the claim form.

 

I guess as their original stance was that they didn't charge PPI, it would suggest that their records relating to the account are sketchy at best. However, I'm sure they will now locate additional info which they claim they didn't have. It might now be worth asking for a data SAR. What do you think?

 

I thought I'd been clear in my original letter to HSBC as to why I was complaining against mis-sold PPI, although i'm happy to do it.

[dx100uk]

id be sending back the fos CQ is post 12

 

 

OC CQ's tend to have questions that loaded in their refusal favour