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    • if you wish to put up everything like    your defence claimants WS defendants WS   then im sure those here now and future victims will find it of value   if you read upload carefully you'll see its best to upload each as a separate multipage PDF but ofcourse you'll have to redact each page as a jpg picture 1st before merging each to the relevant multipage pdf .   dx  
    • Thanks I’m happy to put something back ! I didn’t have the courage of my convictions to counter claim even though I was really quite proud of the thoroughness of my court bundle ! i really wanted the opportunity to get into the detail with the judge and felt quite cheated when it ended, but of course I realised that they had just moved on to their next victim  will watch this space 👍  
    • I have created your own topic for this as its import to have it own one but placed a link on the thread you posted on.   you should never counterclaim that exposes you to further cost and rarely succeeds esp if they disc' the claim always best to state in a sep letter you will be seeking costs esp loss of days wages at £90 which most judges allow.   as for an sar, its p'haps always better to issue a cpr 31:14 too or in replacement of, an sar.   well done on your important win
    • My wife has directed me to post on this thread as I have just successfully won against these charlatans   My hearing date was all set at my local court for 31st October 2019 all defence papers were filed and served and frankly I was really looking forward to it! This morning I received a letter from BW legal stating in a one line response that I was to take this letter as a notice of discontinuance whereby the claimant KBT (armtrac) discontinues all of the claim. I am beyond disappointed that I didn’t get my chance to see these idiots across a desk! And that’s it I don’t appear to be able to take this further? I now realise I should of had the courage of my convictions and faith in the advice of others to issue a counterclaim! What I have now in my possession is a file of information which would be Gold-dust to the next person in my position! I feel like I would be able to get some sort of closure if I could pass some of this wisdom on but there are many posters here already and every case is different in its own way The key points in my defence were as follows and useful to anyone ‘caught’ at Sandy Acres. Keep the original parking ticket you purchased and send a copy to KBT with a covering letter ASAP do not identify the driver at any stage of the process!!!!  The blue sign uses the word penalty which is contrary to the IPC codes of practice  The red and white sign has a café open sign in front of it  which obscures it from the drivers view both available to download via Google maps Check the date you receive NTK mine was 71 days Do an SAR and you will get back the pictures of the alleged offence in my case they were of such poor quality you could not tell which way up the ticket was in the photo and in no image they held was there a picture showing the ticket and the vehicle numberplate. They offered no other evidence. Pretty soon you will see the money is being sought escalate until they no longer match the figure on the NTK even if it is sent within 56 days When you see a breakdown of costs for the money being sought it will ultimately include legal costs, typically £60 that the solicitor knows cannot be recovered in Small Claims Court. Personally I am now considering reporting BW legal to the law society or solicitors ombudsman for being party to a process which is fundamentally dishonest, an abuse of process, and a complete waste of court resources?   i am happy to help anyone who needs assistance but rest assured that their case against you relies on you caving in and paying, they have no plan B but will try and make you doubt your ability to defend yourself.   Dont worry about small claims Court, it isn’t crown court, just an office with 3 desks and certainly less stressful than a job interview or meeting with the bank and less at stake.   I got to one week from my court date and they gave up!
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Lilliya

TFL [Freedom Pass] multiple useage - Bye-Law 17 (1) - Out of court settlement

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Hello everyone and thank you in advance for your help.

 

I was caught in early May using my father's freedom in Newbury Park, using the Underground station (zone 4) travelling to zone 1.

 

The Revenue Control Inspector asked me if I am entitled to use the Freedom pass for travel, I said “No”.

 

He asked if I used this pass before and how many times, I said yes and many times.

 

Before 2 weeks I was sent a court summons for the following:

 

You are required to appear on …….. at Magistrates court …..

 

That on (said date) you did entered a compulsory ticket area without having with you a valid ticket…

Contrary to Bye-law 17 (1) of the TFL railway byelaws made under paragraph 26 of schedule 11 to the greater London Authority act 1999, and confirmed under section 67 of the Transport Act 1962.

..........

An application will be made in court for a £338 contribution towards the costs of TFL.

 

My questions are as follows:

1) I am wondering what exactly is 17 (1) all about?

 

2) Is my case in fact recorded? Is it a criminal record?

 

3) Is it worth it to attempt an out of court settlement with TFL? As I have decided to plead guilty.

 

4) If the answer for the question 3 is yes, How? And to which office/address?

 

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

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Hello everyone and thank you in advance for your help.

 

I was caught in early May using my father's freedom in Newbury Park, using the Underground station (zone 4) travelling to zone 1.

 

The Revenue Control Inspector asked me if I am entitled to use the Freedom pass for travel, I said “No”.

 

He asked if I used this pass before and how many times, I said yes and many times.

 

Before 2 weeks I was sent a court summons for the following:

 

You are required to appear on …….. at Magistrates court …..

 

That on (said date) you did entered a compulsory ticket area without having with you a valid ticket…

Contrary to Bye-law 17 (1) of the TFL railway byelaws made under paragraph 26 of schedule 11 to the greater London Authority act 1999, and confirmed under section 67 of the Transport Act 1962.

..........

An application will be made in court for a £338 contribution towards the costs of TFL.

 

My questions are as follows:

1) I am wondering what exactly is 17 (1) all about?

 

2) Is my case in fact recorded? Is it a criminal record?

 

3) Is it worth it to attempt an out of court settlement with TFL? As I have decided to plead guilty.

 

4) If the answer for the question 3 is yes, How? And to which office/address?

 

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

 

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

Yes, you can try to negotiate and out of court settlement with TfL up to and including the day of your case. Some people have rung them more than once before they succeeded, but they kept trying.

 

I think the problem you may have is that you admitted to using the pass many times. Can you tell us approximately how may times you think you may have used it please?

 

Other people will be along with further advice for you, in the meantime search this forum for cases about freedom passes.

 

My best, HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?364039-Bye-Law-17-(1)-and-yet-another-Freedom-Pass-Case-(sorry)

 

 

what date is the proposed court date.


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Thank you HB for your answer

 

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

Yes, you can try to negotiate and out of court settlement with TfL up to and including the day of your case. Some people have rung them more than once before they succeeded, but they kept trying.

Is there a specific way to negotiate? do I have to ring them? which number? or email them? which email address? or send a letter? which address/office?

Should I sign (plead guilty) and send the form before even attempting a solution out of court? I mean, if I send the from, will I still able to negotiate or it will be late?

 

I think the problem you may have is that you admitted to using the pass many times. Can you tell us approximately how may times you think you may have used it please?

around 10 times

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what date is the proposed court date.

 

22d September.

 

thank you dx100uk

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get grovelling then.

 

 

they have made no direct ref to the multiple times

so don't you dare mention it either!!

 

 

you should have received an initial letter asking for your side of the story before the summons invite?

 

 

did you get that?

did you write back?


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PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

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There should be a correspondence address in the first letter you received.

Write to them and don't forget to include the reference number .

If you didn't receive the first letter, phone the tfl helpline and ask for prosecution address.

Others here might have the address already.

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Is this the same "getting caught" as you described in the previous thread, where you describe being able to settle out of court?

(If so, why are you posting again?)

 

If this is a new episode : if you "got off light" before - why would you expect them not to prosecute this time?

 

The previous thread said "caught" November 2015, letter from TfL December 2015, and settled in May.

Now you are saying caught in May 2016.

 

So it seems you are confused about the dates, or are on a wind-up, or after getting off light once, decided to abuse a Freedom pass again.

Which is it?

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Sorry, just seen that eagle eye dx spotted your previous offence.

I seriously doubt they let you settle out of court on this occasion, but trying doesn't cost anything...

And if I may add: Fare evasion is not a victimless offence, all paying commuters are charged more to cover the loss of fare evasion.

Same as paying customers in supermarkets paying more because of shoplifting.

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get grovelling then.

 

 

they have made no direct ref to the multiple times

so don't you dare mention it either!!

 

They did mention 68 offences to be taken in consideration. They attached to the case an array of 68 rows which mention 68 fares. In each row there is a place for signature "I request this offence to be taken into consideration" ....... Signed

 

 

 

 

you should have received an initial letter asking for your side of the story before the summons invite?

 

 

did you get that?

did you write back?

 

Yes I got it and I wrote back to admit my mistake and apology.

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TFL-misuse-Freedom-Pass-more-than-once-**-SETTLED-BEFORE-COURT-**

 

It has nothing to do with me, it is neither the same account nor the same person .... And it is my first case!!!

Edited by Lilliya

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It has nothing to do with me!!!

 

The usernames differ (yours has an extra 'l') but only very slightly,

However in both cases:

Stopped at Newbury Park

Travelling to/from Zone 1.

Using Father's freedom pass.

 

That is quite some coincidence.

Is there an epidemic of lilliya's getting caught using their father's Freedom Pass at Newbury Park?

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The usernames differ (yours has an extra 'l') but only very slightly,

However in both cases:

Stopped at Newbury Park

Travelling to/from Zone 1.

Using Father's freedom pass.

 

That is quite some coincidence.

Is there an epidemic of lilliya's getting caught using their father's Freedom Pass at Newbury Park?

 

I made it clear that I am not the same person and it is my FIRST case. So please, if we can stay on the subject ... I need some advice here.

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I don't look at usernames so wasn't posting that as a find simply a like case

wow 68 TIC's!!

 

blimey.

 

I think id be inclined to get on the phone and beg to pay what they intimate above they would except.

to get an out of court settlement.

and keep trying.

 

that's a light get out for that many offences.


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

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Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

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Did you use it around 10 times? (As per your post from 13.43)

 

If so : what do you plan to do about the other 59 times they think you used it (since they are talking about 1 offence and 68 TIC's, and you think it is 1 + 9 TIC's that were you).

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I don't look at usernames so wasn't posting that as a find simply a like case

wow 68 TIC's!!

 

 

blimey.

 

 

I think id be inclined to get on the phone and beg to pay what they intimate above they would except.

to get an out of court settlement.

and keep trying.

 

 

that's a light get out for that many offences.

 

68 offences, but not all of them ... there are 10 or 11 fares that are mine, but the rest have been taken legally by the owner of the pass ... and even the destinations are not the same.

 

If I tick Plead Guilty and sign the rows that mention the fares that I took, and leave the others, will it mean that I don't plead guilty?

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Lilliya, you do know that they can check their CCTV going back up to two months, do you?

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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68 offences, but not all of them ... there are 10 or 11 fares that are mine, but the rest have been taken legally by the owner of the pass ... and even the destinations are not the same.

 

If I tick Plead Guilty and sign the rows that mention the fares that I took, and leave the others, will it mean that I don't plead guilty?

 

I'd add a covering letter, explaining that you accept your guilt for those you admit to and have signed, but deny responsibility for the others.

Consider asking the pass holder to write a statement saying which journeys were theirs ...... the downside to this is it might lead them to start asking if you took the pass without permission (theft), or with permission (where they then might prosecute the pass holder!)

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Lilliya, you do know that they can check their CCTV going back up to two months, do you?

 

HB

 

Yes I know! and I didn't use the pass 68 times.

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If I sign only my 10 or 11 fares, will that cause me more troubles? can you please explain this story of 68 offences?

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If I sign only my 10 or 11 fares, will that cause me more troubles? can you please explain this story of 68 offences?

 

It sounds as if you know which journeys are involved from what you said earlier, is that what's on the papers you have?

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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It sounds as if you know which journeys are involved from what you said earlier, is that what's on the papers you have?

 

HB

 

On the paper I have, there is a table of 68 rows/fares/offences ... in the end of each row, there is a space to sign (I request this offence to be taken into consideration - Signed .......)

 

I have another attached paper about Memorandum for the Information of the accused

Can I take a picture and attach it to the thread as there are some points that I think important to show you.

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scan to PDF


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

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scan to PDF

 

I guess i can't add a link or an image?

 

I have used an OCR, I guess it is better.

I would like to show this page that I received with the summon:

 

OFFENCES TO BE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION

 

1 The schedule gives particulars of 68 offences, which we suspect you of committing but have not been charged with.

 

2. If you plead guilty or are found guilty of any offence(s) with which you have been charged you can, before any sentence is passed, admit all or any of the matters in the attached schedule, and ask the court to take them into consideration. This in turn will result in NOT being subsequently charged with any of these matters.

 

3 If you withdraw your admissions to these additional offences that you wish the court to take into consideration, those offence(s) may result in further prosecution(s).

 

4 If you wish to volunteer any further information concerning any of these other offences you may do so in writing, either at the bottom of this form or in a separate letter.

 

5 Please sign all the boxes in the schedule containing the offences to be taken into consideration. Please also sign the box below to accept receipt of this memorandum.

 

6. London Underground will be requesting the compensation amounts as listed individually in the attached schedule,

 

totalling an amount of £335.80 , according for fares unpaid.

 

7. Please return this form along with the other forms to the Central Administration Office, ....................................

 

What do you think?

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