TFL [Freedom Pass] multiple useage - Bye-Law 17 (1) - Out of court settlement

[BazzaS]

Same answer as previously: admit those you are guilty of.

Deny those you are not guilty of.

 

If they decide not to go to court after considering the ones you admit

: they can't prosecute you for them afterwards if they accepted they were taken into consideration.

 

If it goes to court : they can't prosecute you for them afterwards

if they accepted they were taken into consideration by the court.

 

Any not admitted by you the TOC will either accept weren't travel by you,

or may prosecute for (even after the rest of this episode is settled),

if they believe (and can show to the court's satisfaction) that it was you travelling.

[Lilliya]

Thank you for your answer BazzaS.

 

I am wondering what exactly is 17 (1) all about?

 

Is my case in fact recorded?

Is it a criminal record?

[BazzaS]

There is an academic difference between TfL's 17(1) and the national railways byelaw's 17(1).

Both state that "No person shall enter a compulsory ticket area on the railway unless he has with him a valid ticket."

 

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/railway-byelaws.pdf

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/4202/railway-byelaws.pdf

 

TfL's Byelaw 23 relates to punishment, as does railways Byelaw 24.

For National railways a Byelaw 17 prosecution can't attract a level 3 fine, but can under TfL's Byelaw.

 

Mind you, if they can demonstrate intent to avoid a fare, both can be prosecuted under s5(3) of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889, which also carries a level 3 fine (or prison, but prison is only an option for a second or subsequent offence).

 

Both Byelaw 17 and RORA s5(3) offences carry (if it goes to court and is found guilty or on guilty plea) a criminal record for eDBS, visa and immigration purposes, or employment where the employment is exempt from the provisions of the Rhabilitation of offenders legislation.

 

The Byelaw offence may not show (as it is "non-recordable") on a DBS or standard disclosure, though.

[dx100uk]

no you've not been to court and been convicted yet.

 

 

if you follow post 15 there will be no lasting record

[BazzaS]

no you've not been to court and been convicted yet.

 

if you follow post 15 there will be no lasting record

 

Agreed : if they accept an administrative settlement / "settle out of court".

This is rare for multiple deliberate Freedom Pass abuse, though.

[dx100uk]

yes its a rare

but that other thread shows it does happen

theres another one somewhere here

but I cant immediately find it.

 

 

to the op

over what time span are these uses that you admit too?

[Lilliya]

 

 

to the op

over what time span are these uses that you admit too?

 

8 to 9 and 17 to 18:30 (the same stations)

 

the rest : 5:20 to 7:30 and 19:20 to 20:30.

[BazzaS]

8 to 9 and 17 to 18:30 (the same stations)

 

the rest : 5:20 to 7:30 and 19:20 to 20:30.

 

I think by "time spam" you were being asked about was more "between which dates" rather than "between which hours"

[dx100uk]

yep

[BazzaS]

I think by "time spam"

Typo alert: for "time spam" read "time span"!

[Lilliya]

Is it possible to send back the form to the court and negotiate an administrative settlement?

 

 

Will it be late for an administrative settlement if I send the form back with pleading guilty?

[honeybee13]

I don't think it will, Lilliya.

 

My understanding as I said earlier, is that even when a court case is pending, you can continue to negotiate, probably by phone.

 

Even on the day of the court case, people have met the prosecutor and agreed an administrative settlement before the case begins.

 

HB

Edited August 12, 2016 by honeybee13
Addtion.

[dx100uk]

get the form off

and get pleading to them

we've know cases be settled an hour before the case schedule.

 

 

dx

[Liliya]

Is this the same "getting caught" as you described in the previous thread, where you describe being able to settle out of court?

(If so, why are you posting again?)

 

If this is a new episode : if you "got off light" before - why would you expect them not to prosecute this time?

 

The previous thread said "caught" November 2015, letter from TfL December 2015, and settled in May.

Now you are saying caught in May 2016.

 

So it seems you are confused about the dates, or are on a wind-up, or after getting off light once, decided to abuse a Freedom pass again.

Which is it?

 

Hello BazzaS,

 

This thread (posted in August 2016) was not written by the same person.

I am Liliya = 1st Liliya = caught in November 2015

 

However, Lilliya = 2nd person with double "L" is another person imitating my username.

 

I really thought Consumer Group changed the title of my thread at the beginning.

 

It has nothing to do with me, it is neither the same account nor the same person .... And it is my first case!!!

 

Hi Lilliya,

 

I am sorry, you are confusing people here.

See people are writing more threads not concerning your topic.

 

Why are you imitating my username?

 

I am sure you did it intentionally.

[Lilliya]

 

 

 

Hi Lilliya,

 

I am sorry, you are confusing people here.

See people are writing more threads not concerning your topic.

 

Hi Liliya,

 

I am sorry too that you get involved because of our usernames!

 

Why are you imitating my username?

I am sure you did it intentionally.

 

Why would I do that? are you the only one who is called/uses Liliya?

I am sorry to tell you that, but I have no time to loose for imitating people usernames/names!!!

[Lilliya]

dx100uk, honeybee13, BazzaS ... Thank you so much for your help I really appreciate it!

 

I have read that asking for an out of court settlement in a direct way is considered as a serious offence .

.. I have no idea how can I ask or convince TFL for an administrative solution ...

 

Do you have an advice in how writing the letter/email TFL in order to convince them for an administrative settlement?

 

 

What is the best way to convince them?

[dx100uk]

its all it the other Liliya, thread

 

 

 

 

not sure where you are reading

have read that asking for an out of court settlement in a direct way is considered as a serious offence .

but that is pure bunkum

[BazzaS]

dx100uk, honeybee13, BazzaS ... Thank you so much for your help I really appreciate it!

 

I have read that asking for an out of court settlement in a direct way is considered as a serious offence ... I have no idea how can I ask or convince TFL for an administrative solution ...

Do you have an advice in how writing the letter/email TFL in order to convince them for an administrative settlement? What is the best way to convince them?

 

There is no guaranteed way to convince them.

 

Freedom Pass abuse is usually prosecuted.

 

Posters seem to want "the magic bullet" letter that guarantees them an administrative settlement, but any "template letter" is likely to be counterproductive. This is because TfL will have seen any "template letter" many times, and it wouldn't be persuasive.

 

So, it needs to be your letter, in your words, tailored to your situation.

What posters can do is set out a framework, and some "do's and dont's"!

 

Do apologise.

Do accept your guilt.

Do highlight that you won't travel ticketless in future

Do stress if a prosecution would adversely affect you more than others, and explain the circumstances why.

Do offer to pay any fares owing, and their administrative costs.

Do highlight if you were truthful and cooperative to their staff.

Highlight any mitigation.

 

Don't blame the staff who dealt with you.

If you are giving any mitigation : don't phrase it in such a way as it looks like you are trying to excuse your behaviour.

Don't lie : if you get caught in a lie, it is almost inevitable they will prosecute.

 

Specifically for your situation : since they have highlighted 68 possible TIC's. Stress you want to be honest, and admit to your wrongdoing:

Highlight the journeys that you admit to (1)

Highlight the journeys you can't be sure about, but think were probably you, and that you'll admit to if they are willing to TIC them, so that you know you haven't left any out (2)

Highlight the ones that weren't you (not in 1) or 2) ) : stress that you want to be open and honest and know that you could have just said "OK, those were me too", but that you realise you did wrong and don't want to compound that by being less than truthful now......

 

At least you can make a start on the letter, and other posters may want to contribute other advice / "Do's and Don'ts".

[BazzaS]

its all it the other Liliya, thread

 

not sure where you are reading

have read that asking for an out of court settlement in a direct way is considered as a serious offence .

but that is pure bunkum

 

I agree.

 

 

You want to ask clearly for an administrative settlement.

 

If you "beat around the bush" they may not know what you are asking for.

 

However, you do want to ask (not demand!), and you want to give them reasons why they should consider it (see previous reply).

 

One other factor that may be useful if it applies : are you under 18?

[dx100uk]

and what happened?

 

 

dx