TFL [Freedom Pass] multiple useage - Bye-Law 17 (1) - Out of court settlement

[Lilliya]

Hello everyone and thank you in advance for your help.

 

I was caught in early May using my father's freedom in Newbury Park, using the Underground station (zone 4) travelling to zone 1.

 

The Revenue Control Inspector asked me if I am entitled to use the Freedom pass for travel, I said “No”.

 

He asked if I used this pass before and how many times, I said yes and many times.

 

Before 2 weeks I was sent a court summons for the following:

 

You are required to appear on …….. at Magistrates court …..

 

That on (said date) you did entered a compulsory ticket area without having with you a valid ticket…

Contrary to Bye-law 17 (1) of the TFL railway byelaws made under paragraph 26 of schedule 11 to the greater London Authority act 1999, and confirmed under section 67 of the Transport Act 1962.

..........

An application will be made in court for a £338 contribution towards the costs of TFL.

 

My questions are as follows:

1) I am wondering what exactly is 17 (1) all about?

 

2) Is my case in fact recorded? Is it a criminal record?

 

3) Is it worth it to attempt an out of court settlement with TFL? As I have decided to plead guilty.

 

4) If the answer for the question 3 is yes, How? And to which office/address?

 

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

[honeybee13]

Hello everyone and thank you in advance for your help.

 

I was caught in early May using my father's freedom in Newbury Park, using the Underground station (zone 4) travelling to zone 1.

 

The Revenue Control Inspector asked me if I am entitled to use the Freedom pass for travel, I said “No”.

 

He asked if I used this pass before and how many times, I said yes and many times.

 

Before 2 weeks I was sent a court summons for the following:

 

You are required to appear on …….. at Magistrates court …..

 

That on (said date) you did entered a compulsory ticket area without having with you a valid ticket…

Contrary to Bye-law 17 (1) of the TFL railway byelaws made under paragraph 26 of schedule 11 to the greater London Authority act 1999, and confirmed under section 67 of the Transport Act 1962.

..........

An application will be made in court for a £338 contribution towards the costs of TFL.

 

My questions are as follows:

1) I am wondering what exactly is 17 (1) all about?

 

2) Is my case in fact recorded? Is it a criminal record?

 

3) Is it worth it to attempt an out of court settlement with TFL? As I have decided to plead guilty.

 

4) If the answer for the question 3 is yes, How? And to which office/address?

 

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

 

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

Yes, you can try to negotiate and out of court settlement with TfL up to and including the day of your case. Some people have rung them more than once before they succeeded, but they kept trying.

 

I think the problem you may have is that you admitted to using the pass many times. Can you tell us approximately how may times you think you may have used it please?

 

Other people will be along with further advice for you, in the meantime search this forum for cases about freedom passes.

 

My best, HB

[dx100uk]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?364039-Bye-Law-17-(1)-and-yet-another-Freedom-Pass-Case-(sorry)

 

 

what date is the proposed court date.

[Lilliya]

Thank you HB for your answer

 

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

Yes, you can try to negotiate and out of court settlement with TfL up to and including the day of your case. Some people have rung them more than once before they succeeded, but they kept trying.

Is there a specific way to negotiate? do I have to ring them? which number? or email them? which email address? or send a letter? which address/office?

Should I sign (plead guilty) and send the form before even attempting a solution out of court? I mean, if I send the from, will I still able to negotiate or it will be late?

 

I think the problem you may have is that you admitted to using the pass many times. Can you tell us approximately how may times you think you may have used it please?

around 10 times

[Lilliya]

 

 

what date is the proposed court date.

 

22d September.

 

thank you dx100uk

[dx100uk]

get grovelling then.

 

 

they have made no direct ref to the multiple times

so don't you dare mention it either!!

 

 

you should have received an initial letter asking for your side of the story before the summons invite?

 

 

did you get that?

did you write back?

[dx100uk]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?456947-TFL-misuse-Freedom-Pass-more-than-once-**-SETTLED-BEFORE-COURT-**

[king12345]

There should be a correspondence address in the first letter you received.

Write to them and don't forget to include the reference number .

If you didn't receive the first letter, phone the tfl helpline and ask for prosecution address.

Others here might have the address already.

[BazzaS]

Is this the same "getting caught" as you described in the previous thread, where you describe being able to settle out of court?

(If so, why are you posting again?)

 

If this is a new episode : if you "got off light" before - why would you expect them not to prosecute this time?

 

The previous thread said "caught" November 2015, letter from TfL December 2015, and settled in May.

Now you are saying caught in May 2016.

 

So it seems you are confused about the dates, or are on a wind-up, or after getting off light once, decided to abuse a Freedom pass again.

Which is it?

[king12345]

Sorry, just seen that eagle eye dx spotted your previous offence.

I seriously doubt they let you settle out of court on this occasion, but trying doesn't cost anything...

And if I may add: Fare evasion is not a victimless offence, all paying commuters are charged more to cover the loss of fare evasion.

Same as paying customers in supermarkets paying more because of shoplifting.

[Lilliya]

get grovelling then.

 

 

they have made no direct ref to the multiple times

so don't you dare mention it either!!

 

They did mention 68 offences to be taken in consideration. They attached to the case an array of 68 rows which mention 68 fares. In each row there is a place for signature "I request this offence to be taken into consideration" ....... Signed

 

 

 

 

you should have received an initial letter asking for your side of the story before the summons invite?

 

 

did you get that?

did you write back?

 

Yes I got it and I wrote back to admit my mistake and apology.

[Lilliya]

TFL-misuse-Freedom-Pass-more-than-once-**-SETTLED-BEFORE-COURT-**

 

It has nothing to do with me, it is neither the same account nor the same person .... And it is my first case!!!

Edited August 11, 2016 by Lilliya

[BazzaS]

It has nothing to do with me!!!

 

The usernames differ (yours has an extra 'l') but only very slightly,

However in both cases:

Stopped at Newbury Park

Travelling to/from Zone 1.

Using Father's freedom pass.

 

That is quite some coincidence.

Is there an epidemic of lilliya's getting caught using their father's Freedom Pass at Newbury Park?

[Lilliya]

The usernames differ (yours has an extra 'l') but only very slightly,

However in both cases:

Stopped at Newbury Park

Travelling to/from Zone 1.

Using Father's freedom pass.

 

That is quite some coincidence.

Is there an epidemic of lilliya's getting caught using their father's Freedom Pass at Newbury Park?

 

I made it clear that I am not the same person and it is my FIRST case. So please, if we can stay on the subject ... I need some advice here.

[dx100uk]

I don't look at usernames so wasn't posting that as a find simply a like case

wow 68 TIC's!!

 

blimey.

 

I think id be inclined to get on the phone and beg to pay what they intimate above they would except.

to get an out of court settlement.

and keep trying.

 

that's a light get out for that many offences.

[BazzaS]

Did you use it around 10 times? (As per your post from 13.43)

 

If so : what do you plan to do about the other 59 times they think you used it (since they are talking about 1 offence and 68 TIC's, and you think it is 1 + 9 TIC's that were you).

[Lilliya]

I don't look at usernames so wasn't posting that as a find simply a like case

wow 68 TIC's!!

 

 

blimey.

 

 

I think id be inclined to get on the phone and beg to pay what they intimate above they would except.

to get an out of court settlement.

and keep trying.

 

 

that's a light get out for that many offences.

 

68 offences, but not all of them ... there are 10 or 11 fares that are mine, but the rest have been taken legally by the owner of the pass ... and even the destinations are not the same.

 

If I tick Plead Guilty and sign the rows that mention the fares that I took, and leave the others, will it mean that I don't plead guilty?

[honeybee13]

Lilliya, you do know that they can check their CCTV going back up to two months, do you?

 

HB

[BazzaS]

68 offences, but not all of them ... there are 10 or 11 fares that are mine, but the rest have been taken legally by the owner of the pass ... and even the destinations are not the same.

 

If I tick Plead Guilty and sign the rows that mention the fares that I took, and leave the others, will it mean that I don't plead guilty?

 

I'd add a covering letter, explaining that you accept your guilt for those you admit to and have signed, but deny responsibility for the others.

Consider asking the pass holder to write a statement saying which journeys were theirs ...... the downside to this is it might lead them to start asking if you took the pass without permission (theft), or with permission (where they then might prosecute the pass holder!)

[Lilliya]

Lilliya, you do know that they can check their CCTV going back up to two months, do you?

 

HB

 

Yes I know! and I didn't use the pass 68 times.

[Lilliya]

If I sign only my 10 or 11 fares, will that cause me more troubles? can you please explain this story of 68 offences?

[honeybee13]

If I sign only my 10 or 11 fares, will that cause me more troubles? can you please explain this story of 68 offences?

 

It sounds as if you know which journeys are involved from what you said earlier, is that what's on the papers you have?

 

HB

[Lilliya]

It sounds as if you know which journeys are involved from what you said earlier, is that what's on the papers you have?

 

HB

 

On the paper I have, there is a table of 68 rows/fares/offences ... in the end of each row, there is a space to sign (I request this offence to be taken into consideration - Signed .......)

 

I have another attached paper about Memorandum for the Information of the accused

Can I take a picture and attach it to the thread as there are some points that I think important to show you.

[dx100uk]

scan to PDF

[Lilliya]

scan to PDF

 

I guess i can't add a link or an image?

 

I have used an OCR, I guess it is better.

I would like to show this page that I received with the summon:

 

OFFENCES TO BE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION

 

1 The schedule gives particulars of 68 offences, which we suspect you of committing but have not been charged with.

 

2. If you plead guilty or are found guilty of any offence(s) with which you have been charged you can, before any sentence is passed, admit all or any of the matters in the attached schedule, and ask the court to take them into consideration. This in turn will result in NOT being subsequently charged with any of these matters.

 

3 If you withdraw your admissions to these additional offences that you wish the court to take into consideration, those offence(s) may result in further prosecution(s).

 

4 If you wish to volunteer any further information concerning any of these other offences you may do so in writing, either at the bottom of this form or in a separate letter.

 

5 Please sign all the boxes in the schedule containing the offences to be taken into consideration. Please also sign the box below to accept receipt of this memorandum.

 

6. London Underground will be requesting the compensation amounts as listed individually in the attached schedule,

 

totalling an amount of £335.80 , according for fares unpaid.

 

7. Please return this form along with the other forms to the Central Administration Office, ....................................

 

What do you think?