Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • Again, massive thanks to you for the help provided. Two questions: Should I show the dealership correspondence from Blue Motor Finance? Should I send them this letter?   I have changed a couple of bits from your letter. Please see below the final draft:   Dear Sir/Madam, Thank you for your email on 6th December 2021 As you know, this is a hire purchase agreement and as such you are effectively the dealer to all intents and purposes. You have a contract with the dealer but that is a different matter and of course it isn't a contract governed by the consumer rights act because neither of you are consumers. However I am a consumer and I'm protected by the consumer credit act and you have all the responsibilities to me as if you were the retailer (which you are). You are a business which is regulated under the FCA – but also you are a business which is regulated under the consumer credit act and this makes you liable under any consumer legislation which I enjoy – in particular, the Consumer Rights Act 2015. The retailer has already indicated that they are prepared to repair the first fault which occurred – the seatbelt fault.  I'm fully prepared to drive the car back to Blackburn for this repair and also for a further diagnosis of any other defects. Of course, I shall be claiming the costs of this from you – in particular if it means that the car has to stay with the dealer overnight or longer and I have to return at a later date. By insisting on this option,  I take it that you do not have any objection in me driving a faulty vehicle for over three hours, therefore assuming the risk of making the transmission issue worse or even risking a possible catastrophic transmission failure.   As a gesture of goodwill to you, I'm prepared to try and take steps to mitigate your losses by taking the car to a repairer local to me in order to have the work and diagnosis carried out there. I should warn you that if you do prefer me to return the vehicle to the retailer in Blackburn, then I may well decide to carry out my own independent inspection should the retailer not agree that the faults which I am describing exist. If an independent inspection confirms my own view, then I shall be looking to you to reimburse the cost of this inspection in addition to any other costs I reasonably incur. You may feel that it is more cost-effective for you in the long term if I have the car repaired locally and diagnosed locally because then this will also amount to an independent inspection and avoid further damage to the transmission.   In respect of your reference to a warranty, please stop trying to fob me off on to warranties. I am perfectly happy to rely on my statutory consumer rights – and I think you had better understand that. I hope you also understand that warranties are subordinate to statutory consumer rights.   You say that your business is regulated by the FCA – and of course that is correct – and that also means that if you start making misleading statements or try to avoid your responsibilities to me then in addition to county court action I am entitled to make a complaint to the financial ombudsman service. The FCA may allow you eight weeks to investigate a problem and to produce a final response, but what the FCA permits you to do is subordinate to my rights under current consumer legislation. Your trumpeting of what you are allowed to do by the FCA is calculated to mislead me. Don't do it. You have sold me a vehicle which is defective and not of satisfactory quality. This is a breach of contract. Your statement that I'm not entitled to recover any reasonable foreseeable losses caused by your breach of contract is incorrect. In particular, your statement that as a consumer I do not have the same entitlement as a business customer is quite wrong – and also calculated to mislead me because I'm sure you must know better. I accept that it is fair enough that the retailer should have an opportunity to inspect the vehicle and to ascertain the fault. As soon as my position is confirmed, then I shall be looking to you to either arrange or at least to agree the cost of repairs so that they can be put in hand without any delay. Don't imagine that that will be as long as eight weeks.   I'm giving you seven days to let me know which course of action you would prefer me to take. I hope you understand that I'm trying to have your best interests in mind at all times. Yours faithfully
    • So long as they aren't unlawfully discriminating against you because of a protected characteristic, I presume that like anybody else they can pick and choose whom they do business with.    I understand places like Amazon and eBay will close "problem" purchaser accounts quite commonly, and will often also close other accounts that they believe are connected to a problem account  (eg same email, same physical address, same payment details etc).
    • Hi 1st all NO I will not turn it down I'm up there with the big boys   china Russia India me   with global warming   lol .  Thank you for your help but iv got nowhere with !  your repair !  As in terms of them replying  or help .its the wrong time year to drag this out fighting them while I got no hot water or heating.  I have left bad reviews on there sites  hoping that will help others from making the same mistake as me  ! joining there scam !.  As for the NEST  yes it's the government backed scheme for ppl on disability an low income to help warm there homes .  Just do what I did ASK   they can only say yes or no  and there supa fast . So thank you . I will be keeping a look in and see if any one else post about  !your repair!  As I can guarantee I wont be the last person scammed.   Cheers . 
    • Sorry yes was on a small screen.   Funny how it says settle at the earliest, but wont allow ooc?   Dx
    • Fraudsters are using the details of firms we authorise to try to convince people that they work for a genuine, authorised firm. Find out more about this 'clone firm'.View the full article
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

  • Recommended Topics

Possible disguised deposit


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 1941 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

I moved into a property in August last year. We paid 6 weeks deposit, which appears to have been registered with TDS although we have never received the prescribed information.

 

In addition, the letting agency charged us (at the beginning of the tenancy) a £250 end of tenancy cleaning fee, returnable on end of tenancy. I didn't question this at the time although in hindsight I probably should. The agency is not managing the property, we signed the contract with the landlord directly. The agency didn't provide the inventory or check-in service. This was arranged by the landlord, and when we do leave, any check-out will also be directly with the landlord (although the inventory report was not worth the paper it was printed on as it didn't reflect the condition of the property at all. I raised this in writing with the landlord at the time, explaining all the issues, including the cleanliness of the house and have never signed a copy of the report, but that's another issue).

 

Now that we've reached the end of our 12 month fixed term, we are going to remain in the property on a periodic tenancy. In my opinion, the involvement of the letting agents has now ceased as our contract was with the landlord directly. With this in mind, I have requested the £250 to be returned. The letting agent's response is that they will refund this when I vacate the property if the property has been left in the same level of cleanliness. Given this could be several years, I am not happy with this.

 

In any case, I would expect that if extra cleaning is required after I vacate, this should be covered by the tenancy deposit so the extra cleaning fee is superfluous, but this got me wondering if the end-of-tenancy cleaning fee (taken at the start of the tenancy and to be refunded when I vacate, subject to the property being left in the same state of cleanliness) is in fact a further deposit, which should have been registered as such within 14 days.

 

I have checked the registration with TDS and that only includes the 6 weeks deposit, not the further £250 cleaning fee.

 

Can anyone more knowledgeable on the rules offer an opinion? Or can anyone point me towards any guidelines covering this? I have spent a considerable amount of time googling, but haven't found a similar situation so far.

 

Thanks in advance!

11/08/06 Data Protection Act Letters to Barclays, Barclaycard and HSBC

Statements received from HSBC (without any £10 fee)

Microfiche nonsense from Barclaycard

13/09/06 First letter to HSBC for £260 + £54 interest

Statements (printout from microfiche) from Barclays

25/09/06 Refusal from HSBC

29/09/06 LBA sent to HSBC

Link to post
Share on other sites

Quick update...I note the regulations have been updated in various areas, including extending the deadline for registration from 14 to 30 days.

 

I've also had further discussions with the letting agent this afternoon.

 

Full email discussion below, but essentially:

  • They have admitted they take the cleaning fee at the start of the tenancy and refund it at the end if the property has been left in the same level of cleanliness.
  • They will do this on the landlord's advice.
  • They have confirmed that they are holding the £250 as security in case we fail to fulfil our contractual obligation to leave the property as clean as we found it.
  • They claim that as it's a cleaning fee and does not fall as part of the main deposit, it is not subject to deposit protection rules.
  • The £250 cleaning fee is being held by the letting agency, not the landlord.

 

I can't see how this can be seen as anything other than a deposit under chapter 4 of the Housing Act 2004

 

“tenancy deposit”, in relation to a shorthold tenancy, means any money intended to be held (by the landlord or otherwise) as security for—

(a)the performance of any obligations of the tenant, or

(b)the discharge of any liability of his,

arising under or in connection with the tenancy.

 

Do I have enough here to go forward with a Letter Before Action to the Letting Agency?

 

Full email trail below (anonymised)

 

From:

To: >

Sent: Tuesday, 9 August 2016, 16:38

Subject: RE:

 

 

From: [mailto:]

Sent: 09 August 2016 16:38

To:

Subject: Re:

 

Dear Alison

 

Please can you confirm if the separate £250 cleaning deposit is being held by or by the landlord?

 

Regards

 

Steve

 

________________________________________

From:

To:

Sent: Tuesday, 9 August 2016, 16:30

Subject: RE:

 

Dear Steven

 

I have explained the situation and answered the question already. It’s a cleaning fee which is separate to the deposit and does not need to be protected. The monies will be disbursed as per your landlords instructions at the end of the tenancy.

 

Regards

Alison

 

From:

Sent: 09 August 2016 16:24

To:

Subject: Re:

 

Alison

 

It's money that you are holding as security to cover the cost of cleaning if we fail to perform our obligation to leave the property as clean as it was when we arrived, as specified in our tenancy agreement. Under chapter 4 of the Housing Act 2004, the definition of tenancy deposit is as follows:

 

“tenancy deposit”, in relation to a shorthold tenancy, means any money intended to be held (by the landlord or otherwise) as security for—

(a)the performance of any obligations of the tenant, or

(b)the discharge of any liability of his,

arising under or in connection with the tenancy.

 

Calling it by another name, does not stop it being a tenancy deposit as described in the act. Please can you confirm if it has been protected, and if so, provide the certificate and prescribed information?

 

Regards

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

________________________________________

From:

To:

Sent: Tuesday, 9 August 2016, 16:10

Subject: RE:

 

Steve as you know it’s a cleaning fee and does not fall as part of the main deposit and therefore is not subject to a certificate or alike

Regards

Alison

 

From:

Sent: 09 August 2016 16:09

To:

Subject: Re:

 

Hi Alison

 

Please can you therefore provide me with the prescribed information and deposit protection certificate for the protection of this deposit?

 

Kind regards

 

Steve

 

________________________________________

From:

To:

Sent: Tuesday, 9 August 2016, 16:02

Subject: RE:

 

Yes that’s correct but the tenancy agreement is still valid

Regards

Alison

 

 

From:

Sent: 09 August 2016 16:02

To:

Subject: Re:

 

Hi Alison

 

Please can you clarify, you are holding this £250 as security in case we fail to fulfil our contractual obligation to leave the property in as good a state of cleanliness as it was when we took on the property, and even though we are now past the initial 12 month tenancy term you will continue to hold this money until we vacate, even if that is potentially several years away?

 

Regards

 

Steve

 

________________________________________

From:

To:

Sent: Tuesday, 9 August 2016, 14:00

Subject: RE:

 

Hi Steve

 

Sorry but that’s the company’s policy. At the end of the tenancy the landlord will advise if a clean is necessary and if so we will arrange it and if not we will refund you.

 

Regards

Alison

 

 

From:

Sent: 09 August 2016 13:28

To:

Cc:

Subject: Re:

 

Good afternoon Alison

 

Many thanks for your reply. However, as didn't carry out the check-in and will not carry out the check-out, how will you be able to judge whether we have left the property at the same level of cleanliness? And as you are not managing the property, surely in the event that we were to leave the property less clean then it was when we got it (which would be quite difficult) then any remedial cleaning would be up to the landlord to arrange, and to agree a deduction from our deposit?

 

Kind regards

 

Steve

 

________________________________________

From:

To:

Cc:

Sent: Tuesday, 9 August 2016, 12:45

Subject: RE:

 

Hi Steve

 

We collect the cleaning fee at the start of the tenancy and refund it at the end if the property has been left in the same level of cleanliness. Its standard practice that we hold this fee for the length of the tenancy.

 

Regards

Alison

 

 

 

 

From:

Sent: 09 August 2016 10:20

To:

Subject: Re:

 

Hi Alison

 

On what basis? do not even manage the property. Our contract is directly with the landlord, the check-in was not done through , and neither will the check-out be when we leave. will not be arranging any cleaning on our behalf, so there is no reason for you to be holding any money for cleaning.

 

Kind regards

 

Steve

 

________________________________________

From:

To:

Sent: Tuesday, 9 August 2016, 10:10

Subject: RE:

 

Hi Steve

 

The cleaning fee will be held by until you vacate from the property.

 

Many thanks

Alison

 

 

From:

Sent: 08 August 2016 15:07

To:

Subject: Re:

 

Hi

 

I am writing to request a refund of the £250 end-of-tenancy cleaning fee you have been holding since we began our tenancy. Please can you advise what information you require to process the refund?

 

Kind regards

 

Steve

 

11/08/06 Data Protection Act Letters to Barclays, Barclaycard and HSBC

Statements received from HSBC (without any £10 fee)

Microfiche nonsense from Barclaycard

13/09/06 First letter to HSBC for £260 + £54 interest

Statements (printout from microfiche) from Barclays

25/09/06 Refusal from HSBC

29/09/06 LBA sent to HSBC

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like to hear LA justify their position in front of a Judge, you coud always pay an ind Inventory clerk to do detailed inspection report on last day of T, when you have removed your personal contents.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It doesn't mention it.

 

It mentions a deposit of £2,396, although our invoice from the letting agent only included £2,146 deposit. I think it is just coincidence that the difference was £250, the same as the cleaning fee. I have found out from DPS (not TDS as I stated in my original post) that the protected amount is £2,146, which matches what we paid as the main deposit, not the extra £250 cleaning fee.

11/08/06 Data Protection Act Letters to Barclays, Barclaycard and HSBC

Statements received from HSBC (without any £10 fee)

Microfiche nonsense from Barclaycard

13/09/06 First letter to HSBC for £260 + £54 interest

Statements (printout from microfiche) from Barclays

25/09/06 Refusal from HSBC

29/09/06 LBA sent to HSBC

Link to post
Share on other sites

I was half expecting that it would be stated in the contract that it was a fixed fee for cleaning, and that their promise to return it if the cleaning wasn't needed was not in agreement with the contract. If that were the case then it would make it harder to argue that it was a deposit. The fact that it is not mentioned is good.

 

Are you saying that you paid the £250 cleaning fee and didn't get an invoice for it?

 

Regardless, it seems in your interest to conclude that it is not a coincidence and that the agent accepts it is part of the deposit. But that means the resolution of the situation doesn't mean the money is returned to you, it means that it is properly protected.

 

I would suggest that if the landlord is taking over it is important that the landlord is aware of the situation so that it is less likely to cause problems later when you or he gives notice.

 

Possibly you could sue but relative to the £250 it is expensive and time-consuming, and may cause you problems with your tenancy. You can always sue at a later date.

 

In the current situation, the landlord cannot give you a valid Section 21 notice to end the tenancy.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The cleaning fee was on the same invoice as all the other fees and the main deposit.

 

The landlord isn't taking over as such. Our tenancy agreement was directly with him in the first place. The letting agent doesn't manage the property, doesn't collect the rent, didn't provide the tenancy agreement, didn't provide the check-in. All of that was done by the landlord himself. That's the main reason I wanted the money back in the first place, the letting agency basically have nothing to do with the tenancy now, so there is no reason for them to be holding £250 of my money indefinitely. Had they refunded it when I asked then I'd have probably left it at that. Their arrogance makes me want to sue them for all I can though.

 

I'm not overly concerned about causing problems with the tenancy, as the LA has no involvement any more and it's the LA I'm pursuing, not the landlord. The landlord also hasn't provided the prescribed info for the main deposit, so he can't issue a section 21 notice anyway, regardless of what happens with the £250 "cleaning fee".

11/08/06 Data Protection Act Letters to Barclays, Barclaycard and HSBC

Statements received from HSBC (without any £10 fee)

Microfiche nonsense from Barclaycard

13/09/06 First letter to HSBC for £260 + £54 interest

Statements (printout from microfiche) from Barclays

25/09/06 Refusal from HSBC

29/09/06 LBA sent to HSBC

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like LL employed LA for 'Tenant find Only' but on that basis, I would expect LA to either

1 pay deposit imm to LL

2 protect deposit & provide PI

 

 

Mention £250 payment to LL and let him recover it from LA/repa

Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like you have a sound case. I'm a little bit behind on the rules and procedures of making such a claim. Last time I looked it wasn't a straightforward small claims claim.

 

Even though the agent says they have the money, the agent acts for the landlord. So normally you would approach the landlord with issues like this and it may be that you should sue both agent and landlord or just the landlord (Iamnotalawyer). If the agent went bust, for example, the landlord would still owe you the £250.

 

The agent sounds a bit incompetent. Is it a chain or a small agency? Currently I am in dispute with an agent who claims to be part of a chain but only has one shop. When she talks about "It's company policy" she means "It's my policy". Does the agent have any sort of independent dispute resolution scheme that you could go through? I believe that it is law that they should be part of such a scheme now.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...