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Pursuing lies in civil court


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Hi, I will make this as brief as possible although it is very long and complex.

 

Basically, I became depressed due to family circumstances and my partner went to the childrens' headteacher who because of my depression, made a referral to social services claiming my children were at risk. In this referral he stated I was autistic. Not true. Shortly after this, there was an incident of graffiti. The head phoned SS to inform them I had been seen wandering the village early on, looking angry and ripping up paper. Not true. SS included the false statement in a report.

 

New headteacher begins almost immediately after, leaving me not time to question original head. New head had been a teacher at school for 6 years. I asked him to find out about this lies. He claimed nobody knew anything about it. perpetrator had been caught at this point. Sent a legal letter intending to sue for defamation and slander regarding above. Councils' solicitor (PJ) wrote back stating one was dissemination of information and stating there was 'some truth' in other statement. Left it at that hopeful lies would stop. Head took this letter personally and made life difficult. Using SS to prop him up as we had an awful social worker involved who was happy to get any info. and school would provide it, true or not. Never spoke about kids, just me!

 

I ended up swearing at him in office. Calls police and banned. Other parents swore and nothing was done. He did me a colour coded reward chart and I was banned further if I didn't do exactly what was said which was dropping children off in office. If I said he was being silly, banned again. If I took them to gate only, banned again, if a friend took them in (bearing in mind I was in middle of mental health crisis which he knew of) banned again. Went on for nearly 2 months. Started staring and following me and kids. Went to police for advice and this behavior stopped. Eventually went to governors who, despite a lengthy email, said he had followed correct procedures. At this point SS had after a year of hell, left us alone. I was feeling better and wanted to make this head suffer. I experienced sexual abuse and other severe abuse in my childhood and this man had a profound impact. After governors ignoring me I called him a [edited] on fb and was cautioned and was banned for 12 months. Lots of little lies told to SS throughout all this. He always used the dissemination of information argument when challenged.

 

Upon returning to school my children were ignored as was my husband and I. My autistic child had melt downs and wouldn't go in without me. The staff completely ignored her. Made life difficult and said if I was late, they would call SS (knowing the impact they had on me previously). I phoned SS and they reassured me nothing would happen. Relayed this info. to school. When I was late I phoned and apologised. Head phoned SS and police stating I was slurring my words and had been seen staggering down the road. I hadn't even left to collect them at this point. Kids taken to grandparents in police car. Spoke to 101 (in my 'unfit' state) and they wouldn't tell me anything. Grandparents phoned to say kids were on their way there and I drove 15 miles to collect them. Police did not investigate and after speaking with grandparents, SS were happy I was not unfit and took no further action.

 

Very shortly after, I was threatened with an injunction should I contact the school. I had phoned them more frequently to ask about my 2 children who are both autistic but messages were always ignored. Told to email someone at council which I did 3 times but no response so had no choice but to contact school. Then an injunction was applied and an interim one granted. Stated a lot of lies and that head had been threatened via phone by my father. This father was never seen before. Said I would fight it then a warrant for my arrest was issued stating that although interim injunction had been granted, my father had again threatened him. As a result of this threat, he had an alarm installed (zoopla shows alarm there when he bought house) and he had CCTV installed. My partner sought out his address as I wasn't allowed 50 metres and sat nav wouldn't recognise it and saw no cctv.

 

I said will they drop everything if I move girls school. Said yes. However, despite knowing all half term I was moving, I get a letter from PJ on the last day telling me that they want me to sign an undertaking with same terms as injunction. I should seek legal advice and give them an answer by monday (case was on tuesday). This left me no time to fight it. When I challenged the unfair terms PJ stated he would go for the warrant, despite my kids being in new school.

 

After speaking with a solicitor friend, she set out some new terms. One was that I be able to walk my dog on the footpath which crosses the school car park and goes around the school. Mostly hidden by bushes. PJ sent a new order but didn't include map and lines showing where I could go. They said I could but only at weekends. Really made life difficult for me. Shortly after moving school, realised it was a mistake and sought to one child back. PJ then tells me I have been entering the car park. I said I can at weekends. He proceeds to tell me he didn't mean the car park which is also the public footpath. I had explained the difficulty I had in walking three girls elsewhere. It seemed he kept this as an insurance policy. I saw the map in court but as I said, he had not sent it via email, knowing I had legal advice.

 

He then informed me they had installed CCTV (no signs) and says I was captured crossing the car park in the week. I explained I was not sure if that was the school, property and pointed out an email I had sent earlier requesting this info. Not done on purpose.

 

He acted in a very underhand manner and it is clear from my email he knew what I meant when I said footpath purposely didn't send the map. He kept saying I could use it at such a time and it wouldn't be relied on. I have since moved from the village but I am angry how they have acted and lied. Given that I can prove some lies and that his statement to police differs to that given to judge, what can I do. If I ask for the undertaking to be quashed, they will agree (knowing I have moved) and it may never reach court. How do I get this to a judge and make them answerable to the lies? I know they will accuse me of contempt (which I deny) but that still doesn't take away the lies. I have also read the judge is corrupt and considering his attitude, fear this. I have been police but they aid it is a civil matter. I am sorry it is so long. Any help is much appreciated. :-)

Edited by honeybee13
Pejorative term removed.
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From what i understand what social services decide with the school is on the balance of probabilities. The reports do not have to be factual but reasonable and proportionate on the information they have. The number one priority has to be the welfare of any children.

 

I can see in my opinion neither the school or social services have done anything wrong under the circumstances. In most cases social services and the school are not the enemy as they have to make snap decisions for the welfare of the children. I am no doctor but they seem to be concerned with your depression and how you interact with others.

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No, strangely enough I became depressed after the birth of my third child. I now had two children on the autistic spectrum and with SPD.

 

I moved away from my partner for 2 years to be closer to family and managed my depression and all three children thrived. I moved back with husband after it became clear he couldn't find a job where I was living. I joined him near his family in a rural village. I had no friends/family and felt isolated ina place where there was very little going on compared to the city I had moved from.

 

The only reason they were made aware was because my partner told them. The social worker was horrendous and my depression became worse. Rather than help, we were threatened and accused of neglect because I refused to take one child to appointments she did not need.

 

Then a lovely new social worker came and left after one month. No new social worker was allocated to us and life was fine.

 

In fact, husband had car accident and broke his leg so I was doing everything. However, at the next meeting, a very abrupt team leader said we don't know what is going on. I said it's not my problem you have not done your job properly. Adjourn meeting til you have. No such luck, we were accused of emotional abuse with no evidence put forward to support this.

 

After the meeting, the reports by social worker who had left were found and they were positive. I was not given a review. Depression came back with what i consider to be CPSD.

 

Out of fear I said i will walk away from my children because I cannot cope with what you are doing until you do job properly. I was told no. Strangely enough, they left us alone shortly after me being discharged from a section 2, when my depression was at it's worst.

 

The third chairperson was disgusted and said why has this happened? If you were neglectful and emotionally abusive you would not have your kids now. I would suggest anybody who is depressed (thousands) be careful. One bad social worker who thinks you are easy prey.

 

This is Somerset social care if you care to look into their most recent inspections. As for the lies, they still stand and what can I do? The head was not told by anybody I was staggering as I had not left the house at this point! Why leave this out to the judge? Because he realised it would look ridiculous considering less than an hour afterwards, I got into a car and drove! And my interaction with others was never a factor for them.

Edited by honeybee13
Paras.
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Hello and welcome to CAG. I'm sorry you've had a tough time of it.

 

Could I ask you please what it is you would like to achieve from what you're doing? An apology, compensation, something else? That will help us to advise you.

 

My best, HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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If the head teacher was making false allegations against you , your only defence weapon would be to make counter allegations.

Been there, done that.

Head teachers seem to be immune from the legal system, above the law and superior to other human beings.

Until someone with a brain smaller than that of a bird records a conversation with them.

They go ahead making false allegation that they received death threats and then the recording is sent to all interested authorities (police, Ofsted, dfe, governing bodies, council etc.)

At that point they are forced to resign, also because the recording has been accidentally leaked to all teachers.

What are they going to do at this point?

Sue you for disclosing a covert recording under the dpa? No, it's in the public interest.

Defamation of character in high court? Too expensive and judges wouldn't be impressed of the false allegations.

 

My personal experience of dealing with "authorities" is to record everything, just in case.

Then counter attack them at nuclear level when they make false allegations.

My own way to stop the bullies, self professed authority and pompous head teachers (they deserve a separate category)

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I was unfortunately involved with the SS, due to my wife having a mental breakdown,

The children were in care for 10 months.

The School my children were in lied through there teeth.

I even told the SS what was going to be in there next report , 1 month before the next meeting.

 

As said record everything, this is your proof.

My proof came from notes at contact, As I made sure I asked the children the right questions.

 

Worked in my favour, but the nothing said about there lies.

 

If you have move away from the area , I would let sleeping dog lie and move on.

It will not help you with your depression.

I can understand the anger, I have been there,

good luck

 

Leakie

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I would let it go but as the council, despite moving heaven and earth to force me out of the school, now will not help me with schooling with regards to my autistic child. I have said you lied to a judge yet you won't help me with schooling so that is why it is still an issue. Waiting for police to email me back but I think I will go to paper in the end. Just want some sort of justice. It's a shame social services don't help people. I still have depression but nobody knows and doesn't affect children. God help me if they got back involved, bloody vulchers! Once social did their job properly, the sw asked if I would rather have stayed with my birth mother than go into care at 4. I said yes, because although I would have suffered it would not have been as bad as what happened in care. Better the devil you know! I honestly think it should be an absolute last resort to remove children, but they kept using it as a threat. I am looking into doing a degree in social work or something that helps families.

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I did record a conversation with him and wanted to record him constantly staring, however would have not looked very good in a primary school! However, he did post a letter through my letterbox (he timed this so out paths would cross) and when I told him not to, the next week he went to my neighbours house to post the letter. Which obviously they knew about and were confused as to why he didn't give me letters in school or use royal mail. Didn't mention this to judge of course. He really is a megalomaniac.

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Well I googled his name and there were hundreds of things about him. How he puts gagging orders on people and how he rubber stamps everything the council ask for. It wasn't just a few complaints. I said to him in court, I don't understand why I can't walk my dog as I have used the path before the head was even working there. And if the head really doesn't like the sight of my head, then why does he drive past my house every morning and evening when there is another route which is just the same if not quicker? His response was they don't want to see me. WTF? I don't want to see them but I think it is unreasonable to ask for them not to be allowed near my house because of this. It was clear he wan't interested in my side. I am not going to state his name so I am not really making allegations, just going on what I have read.

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Hello and welcome to CAG. I'm sorry you've had a tough time of it.

 

Could I ask you please what it is you would like to achieve from what you're doing? An apology, compensation, something else? That will help us to advise you.

 

My best, HB

 

Hi I would like ideally for a judge to listen to my side and punish the lies. I have a caution for one malicious comment so i would like them dealt with by the law, as I was. I have emailed the police again listing everything, including the phone call which stated I was unfit and asked them to do something. If they don't I am reluctant to return to the judge and might just go to a newspaper. Even if I do return to the judge, I don't know how to submit an application for my side to be heard. I know how to apply to have undertaking varied or even dropped but not how to ask for the lies to be challenged.

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Hello - what are you trying to achieve here?

 

It sounds like this issue has escalated and escalated. It might be better to try and deescalate it now, and try to move on with your life.

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Hi I would like ideally for a judge to listen to my side and punish the lies. I have a caution for one malicious comment so i would like them dealt with by the law, as I was. I have emailed the police again listing everything, including the phone call which stated I was unfit and asked them to do something. If they don't I am reluctant to return to the judge and might just go to a newspaper. Even if I do return to the judge, I don't know how to submit an application for my side to be heard. I know how to apply to have undertaking varied or even dropped but not how to ask for the lies to be challenged.

 

You want him prosecuted for something he said to you over the telephone in a private conversation?

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You want him prosecuted for something he said to you over the telephone in a private conversation?

 

No, it was said to the police and social services. It was said that I was slurring my words and I was also seen staggering down the road. This then changed, as did many other things, when he wrote his statement of truth to the judge. The police initially said it was in a civil case so would be up to me to pursue it. After emailing again saying that what he said in a statement to the police and what he said in his statement to the judge is very different, they are now investigating perjury. They said they will have to go through it with a 'fine toothed comb' which is music to my ears. Someone is finally going to question things.

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In terms of civil law, you'd probably be looking at defamation. Bringing a defamation claim is difficult and expensive, so best to leave this one with the police. It may not go anywhere but we'll see.

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In terms of civil law, you'd probably be looking at defamation. Bringing a defamation claim is difficult and expensive, so best to leave this one with the police. It may not go anywhere but we'll see.

 

When I was told there would be an officer investigating I thought at the very least he will be questioned over discrepancies. However, I had a call from the sgt at local police station who informed me that they would not investigate just because I couldn't afford a solicitor. I reiterated what I was told on prior phone call but no joy. She had quite an attitude and was adamant I gather the evidence myself (much of what they hold). I explained the situation regarding the alarm. He stated to a judge he had been threatened by my father and as a result he had alarm fitted. I explained how I could prove this was a lie but she said this is not perjury. I was confused but she kept getting angry saying she had other things to deal with. That is probably the strongest evidence I have of him lying as well. Maybe I wrote to Zoopla and asked them to edit their historical pages with an alarm that matches one he has now!

 

I don't think head/county solicitor realises I can access his statement he gave police. Maybe that is why he was so quick to say something completely different to judge. However, I can access my taped interview in which officer read out his full statement. I was told in no uncertain terms I cannot apply for his statement but can for my taped interview. No wonder County solicitor has ignored my comments regarding his statement!

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It isn't surprising that the police won't investigate this. I don't really understand what they would be investigating. Lying is not a criminal offence or a civil action. Defamation is a civil action, but it is not criminal and therefore is not within the police's remit. Perjury is a criminal offence but it is very difficult to prove and would generally only apply to evidence given to court which is signed by a statement of truth - it wouldn't apply for example to things said in a private telephone conversation.

 

I doubt the police feel equipped to look underneath court proceedings, as those have already been adjudicated on by a judge.

 

If you have clear evidence that evidence given by this person to the court in support of an application for an injunction was untrue, I suppose you could apply to have the injunction lifted and costs awarded. Of course you would have to need some genuinely new information; any other arguments about the correctness of the previous statement would need to have been put to the judge in the civil case before he made his decision.

 

The county solicitor would only be acting based on information provided by their client. I don't think its a good idea to try and drag the county solicitor into this.

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Yes, that's true. Pursuing a course of conduct intended to cause distress etc. could amount to harassment. Difficult to prove though

 

Very… especially when the police don't take you seriously. I am currently in discussions with the police over a neighbour who has twice caused me extreme distress… the first time when he tore down a large section of boundary fence worth £300 and even after the police were called and told him to replace it, he refused.

The second time he threatened some prospective buyers, causing my house sale to fall through, right on exchange!

 

I tried to get a charge of harassment against him and the police didn't even bother to interview him, and are now saying it's just a civil matter, when they are both unlawful actions! See here;

 

Harassment is both a criminal offence and a civil action under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

This means that someone can be prosecuted in the criminal courts if they harass you. It also means you can take action against the person in the civil courts.

When is something harassment under the Act?

Generally speaking harassment is behaviour which causes you distress or alarm.

The Act also says you must have experienced at least two incidents by the same person or group of people for it to be harassment.

It's the courts that decide if something is harassment under the Act. The courts will look at whether most people or a reasonable person would think the behaviour amounts to harassment.

When can you take civil court action about harassment?

If you’ve been the victim of harassment you can take action in the civil courts against the person harassing you.

You need to make your claim within six years of when the harassment happened.

You can still take civil court action even if the person harassing you hasn’t been found guilty of a criminal offence.

 

So very difficult to make it stick, though, as you say. TB

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Indeed. I would have thought tearing down a fence is criminal damage as well!

 

Of course it is!… It's also theft as he didn't return it to me or compensate me… to add insult to injury, he used MY fence to repair his own with!

 

But this is the tip of a very longstanding and complicated dispute. I have asked to police to provide me with everything they have on the two incidents under the Freedom of Information Act… awaiting their response. Should be interesting.

 

I don't know what the police are thinking of or why they are saying it's a civil matter… but I do know they seem to be siding with this (very wealthy and influential) man… make of that what you will…

 

Dreadful when those who are supposed to uphold the law do no such thing.

 

TB

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