Excel/BW claimforn - PCN 31/03/2015- land since redeveloped - 468 Bury New Road, Prestwich , manchester **WON**

[karbot]

I am the owner of a car and my wife the driver.

 

 

On 31/03/15 my wife met her friend on for a meal one evening and parked side by side with her on what they thought was a free car parking space at the side of the Croma Italian restaurant in Prestwich , Manchester.

neither of them saw any signage and plus it was about 7:30pm in the evenings wasn't expecting to pay parking.

 

Apparently there were signs according to excel?

 

After now numerous letters from excel parking, zenith, rossendale (all ignored).

 

 

We have a letter from BW legal

- a final notice saying that as i have ignored the last letter offering a discount of £80

they now have been instructed to commence proceedings in county court

if i do not pay with 10 days of the letter date .

 

The letter is dated 9th may 2016 and I received it on the 14th may.

 

The letter states i have to pay £54 excel costs plus £100 fine.

- Remember i am not the driver (I'm the owner).

 

 

I have never corresponded to parking charges before and they always stop after a year or so

but these seem more "legal" and possibly I'm now entering a reality whereby they will take court action?

 

Q. has anyone had this "final notice" letter and when or how did you deal with it?

[mikeymack2002]

Is this the site here? https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.5337438,-2.2853742,3a,75y,105.27h,81.39t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sk_sJDDYWGvoOrkyM00RR9w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1?hl=en

 

If you have a look at the attachment I have I think been able to show the sign your partner may have missed.. If this is correct could you let us know?

 

As you can see the sign is unlit and could easily be missed if it was dark at the time of visiting.

 

Also this car park is 24hr car park....

 

Secondly the P&D machine appears to be in a corner and not easily seen either! Others will be along shortly to give further advice that you may need.

Car par signage.pdf

[karbot]

Yes that is the carpark and she parked on the right next to the entrance just as you come in.

[mikeymack2002]

My observations on this site are there are far too many signs within this car park. You would not see all of them clearly. there are private bays as well. The downside is you by the looks of would have to walk within a very short distance of the sign at the entry point small as it may be... All of the signage for this P&D appear to be on one side of it as well. None on the left.....

 

 

Welcome to CAG by the way...

 

 

If she parked to the right the blue signs say staff only. What does the ticket your partner received say?

[ericsbrother]

the sign is on the wrong side of the road for any driver to be able to read it

and more critically it says please refer to other signs for terms and conditions

which meand that it is not a contractual offer anyway.

 

In short, the parking co would lose any court claim for breach of contract

because they arent offering one. but making an "invitation to treat", which you can take up or not, as you choose.

 

As for BW,

they are lawyers acting as debt collectors so can be ignored as easily as Zenith, Rozzers etc.

 

However, if you want to create a paper trail that will warn them that you are not burying your head in the sand

just say that

 

"The keeper denies any debt is owed to Excel or anyone else.

The signage at the site that is the subject of your correspondence is an invitation to treat

and not a contract and no contract had been formed to be broken.

Please refer this back to your clients so they are aware of my position on this matter"

 

Excel have lost other court claims on this point

so they wont want to lose more money and

I reckon this will be the last you hear.

[karbot]

Excel Parking Services & BW Legal

 

my wife parked and bought a ticket on a total parking car park a year ago.

 

Over the last year as I was the registered owner they have sent me the letters.

I ignored all of them ( probably a mistake but it used to be the right advice).

 

The first we knew of any fine was when a letter came through the door and said she wasn't displaying a ticket.

This was a month or so later and we obviously had no ticket anymore

plus she could not remember whether she bought one or not ?

 

 

It is a £1 for all day parking on this carpark a saturday in Manchester.

 

We ignored all the letters

 

 

now BW Legal have sent a county court claim with £138 of solicitors costs added to the charge

along with Interest on the charge £10, plus court fees £25, .

 

1. what is the the best defence?

 

2. Will a court -if I lose the case, allow those extra costs?

 

3. If I offer to settle the claim before the court hearing date,

( I am going on holiday and she doesn't want the worry when we are away of dealing with this)

 

at this late stage am i entitled to just pay the £100 plus court cost for example

- or would I have to pay the full amount of solicitors costs?

 

4. what are my options -

 

appreciate any experience others have had and factual or legal requirements will help

rather than "opinions" which may be well intended

but could cause me to get it wrong?

 

 

we go away in 4 days!

 

 

further info: just realised i have put the wrong story to this ticket as she has 2 ongoing tickets one with Zenith and Total carparks and one with BW legal. this is the correct background below to help in any defence.

 

my wife friend parked on the same car park at night as her friend, it was dark and the carpark is at the side of a small shopping centre and the car park signage was not evident on the entrance. My wife got a ticket and her friend her was in another bay 20 yds away never got a parking ticket. She did not see any pay and display machine which were at the opposite side of the carpark. There were parking restrictions unto 8pm.

[dx100uk]

Its not a fine..BW don't send claimforns

They come direct from the court

[karbot]

Sorry I didn't make it clear, i have

a claim form form the court issued on the 28th July

[dx100uk]

OK that's because you ignored everything..wrong sadly

 

Should be easy to defend

 

There's a link to fill in for us

Hang on a mo

[dx100uk]

Please fill this out

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?465231-Received-a-Court-Claim-From-A-Private-parking-Speculative-invoice-How-To-Deal-With-It-HERE***(1-Viewing)-nbsp

[karbot]

on what grounds "easy to defend"?..

 

The main one is the punitive charge of £100 when the fee is £1 per day? and she was parked for approximately 5 hours.

[dx100uk]

Fill the link out please

Sad to see you already knew not to ignore these by you other threads that ericbrother told you what to do months ago?

[karbot]

sorry I am a bit confused dx 100uk? do you mean i need to copy the consumer template message here and display my personal details ? and someone helps complete it?

 

sorry if i sound daft but not clear what it is asking?

 

 

extract:

 

"Firstly - read all of this post...then copy this first msg to your thread - and put your answer after each question"....

 

"In order for us to help you we require the following information:-".....

 

Name of the Claimant ?

 

Date of issue – top right hand corner of the claim form – this in order to establish the time line you need to adhere to.

 

Date of issue XX + 19 days ( 5 day for service + 14 days to acknowledge) = XX + 14 days to submit defence = XX (33 days in total) -

[dx100uk]

Copy the post to here

Answer the questions but of course as it says hide person details

[karbot]

Claimant: Excel Parking Services Ltd

Date of issue –27th July 2016

 

What is the claim for –

1.The claimants claim is for the sum of £100 being monies due from the defendant to the claimant

in respect of a parking charge notice (PCN) issued on 31/03/2015 (issue date) at xx:xx pm

At XYZ road, Radcliffe, manchester .

 

2.The PCN relates to car type & Car Reg.

The terms of the PCN allowed the defendant 28 days from the issue date to pay the PCN, but the defendant failed to do so.

 

3.Despite demand having been made, the defendant has failed to settle the the outstanding liability.

 

4.The claim also includes statutory interest pursuant to a section 69 of the county courts act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum a daily rate of 0.02 from 31/03/2015.

 

5.The claimant also claims £54.00 contractual costs pursuant to PCN terms and conditions

What is the value of the claim? = £230

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor

or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim ?

Excel parking assigned BW Legal to recover costs it is BW Legal who have issued the county court proceedings

 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment?

yes excel sent a letter to state they had passed this over to BW legal

Edited July 30, 2016 by karbot

[karbot]

I have a letter from Zenith collections in regards to a parking fine for my wife in a car i own but she was driving.

"notice of intention to commence legal proceedings"... Parked without a valid ticket"

 

she had bought one but it had fallen out of sight of the window. She never knew about the offence until a month afterwards and then never had the old ticket?

 

Can i use this one liner here to reply ?

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?464638-Bury-New-Rd-Prestwich-BW-legal-final-notice

 

DX100uk is that what you mean ? Is that sufficient information or can I help any more?

 

many thanks for your help and advice on here its invaluable and reassuring.

[dx100uk]

Ask Eric to pop in

[dx100uk]

EB has given you the text of what to write above.

 

 

please stop using the word 'FINE'

its not

its a speculative invoice

[ericsbrother]

Ignore Zenith, they are just another desk at the parking company so have nothing worthwhile to say.

I assume you sent the short letter to BW? If not then it shows that they arent really going to do anything and if you did it shows that they realise their bluff has been called so they are back to rentathreat letters

[ericsbrother]

we need the exact adderss of the car park otherwise we cant google streetmap it and read the signage.

 

You havent bothered to help yourself much, going back over your other threads

so start telling us everything we need to know or it will be very difficult to help you.

 

what date was the parking event?

What date did you get the NTK though the post?

have you still got that and if so post it up so we can determine if is fulfils the requirements of the law to create a keeper liability (often doesnt)

 

Did you appeal the charge?

if so when and what was the response.

 

have you contacted the local council and asked them if Excel have planning permission for their signage?

if they dont then they cannot offer a contract for you to consider so this is well worth investigating.

 

read other threads , esp the Mansfield thread and the parking prankster's blog where PE got clobbered for telling porkies about PP.

 

For the moment though, knowing where the car park was will be a good start so we can trash the wording of their signage.

 

Most of Excels's signs are rubbish, except where they have lost court cases and had to replace them.

 

later on you will have to send a CPR 31.14 asking Excel for copies of their contract with the landowner and details of the planning permission.

they wont want to hand these over and that will help you enormously.

[karbot]

Thanks Ercisbrother

 

 

I have 2 threads which are the same alleged offence and missed the replies on the earlier thread

- see thread title : Bury New Rd, Prestwich, BW legal final notice

 

this is the same offence which shows signage not being sufficient.

 

 

I haven't responded to anything from BW legal nor did I send a reply but bw it has got to them issuing a claim form

and registering a claim as above.

 

 

I have acknowledged service on the MCOL last night so have 33 days from 27th July to put a defence together.

 

Can I use the defence you stated on the above mentioned thread as sufficient or at this stage now will i need more?

[karbot]

Can you please help wit the original questions above .

 

now BW Legal have sent a county courticon claim with £138 of solicitors costs added to the charge

along with Interest on the charge £10, plus court fees £25, .

 

1. what is the the best defence? - that is now being helped by Ericsbrothet and others

 

2. Will a court -if I lose the case, allow those extra solicitor costs? ?

 

3. If I offer to settle the claim before the court hearing date,

( I am going on holidayicon and she doesn't want the worry when we are away of dealing with this)

 

at this late stage am i entitled to just pay the £100 plus court cost for example

- or would I have to pay the full amount of solicitors costs? Just to get rid of it!

 

4. what are my options -

Edited July 31, 2016 by karbot

[dx100uk]

for sake of clarity - threads merged.

 

if you lose it will be the value stated on the claimform..

 

I doubt if they would settle out side of court for less

and you shouldn't do that anyway

 

they can be beaten

 

follow EB's advise

[karbot]

The car park address is the site here: 3 Fairfax Road Prestwich, Manchester M25 1AS, UK

 

this is now linked at the top of the thread as an earlier claim.

 

My defence for the court action is this one liner sufficient:

 

"The keeper denies any debt is owed to Excel or anyone else.

The signage at the site that is the subject of your correspondence is an invitation to treat

and not a contract and no contract had been formed to be broken.

Please refer this back to your clients so they are aware of my position on this matter"

 

The signage on entrance is on the wrong side of the road and she parked immediately on the left where there is no signage. it was evening remember so dark also.

[ericsbrother]

there is nothing on the sign at the entrance that says there is a contractual obligation to pay them if you dont follow certain directions so this means that there is no breach of contract. No indication of what the penalty would be either.

 

so your short defence is that no breach of contract by the driver as the signage is unclear as to what is offered to the motorist as a contract and there is no contractual obligation to pay any amount other than the prescribed fee for parking.

 

Your offered defence is not worded in a way that will be considered a defence by the court as you cant ask them to refer the matter back to anyone.

 

Also you should photograph the signs there and compare them to the images on Google to ensure they havent changed them since (if they did, the date they replaced them will be critical).

 

This one point defence can be added to when you have more detail asd there may well eb other reasons as to why no contract was formed, ie they didnt use the POFA correctly to create a keeper liability, but we havent seen your paperwork yet so that will have to wait.

Edited August 1, 2016 by honeybee13
Paras.