Napier FCN Willen lake M.Keynes - my valid ticket blew on the floor

[poustilaki]

Hi everyone,

 

I am a single parent of 2 children (2 years and 2 months old) which I take to the park every week. I don't have a lot of money but still I go to and pay for parking every week in the same place (Willen lake in Milton Keynes).

 

What happened on this occasion is that after I placed the ticket on the dashboard, I then had to get both my children out as well as the push chairs and so on out of the boot. Whilst doing that the ticket must have been blown over on to the seat as it was a windy day. When I got back I found the ticket upright on my seat after returning to the vehicle.

 

The company is an IPC company called Napier Parking Ltd and I was issued with a Fixed Charge Notice.

 

I contacted them immediately and showed them photos of my ticket and explained my case to them. They replied by rejecting my claim and showed me pictures of my car (obviously not my car seat) and said I could try contesting this by contacting the IAS.

 

I appealed for this case through the IAS and was absolutely dumbfounded by the "independant" services response:

 

"

In all Appeals the Adjudicator is bound by the law of contract and is only able to consider legal challenges and not factual mistakes nor extenuating circumstances. Once liability has been established only the Parking Operator has the discretion to vary or cancel the parking charge based on mitigating circumstances.

 

In this case the parking charge was issued because the Appellant parked his car on private land without displaying a valid P&D ticket in the front windscreen or on the dashboard as is required.

 

 

The Appellant maintains that he bought a ticket which allowed him to park there that day prior to the issue of this parking charge at 13.53.

 

 

The ticket provided by the Appellant does not show the time when it was issued but the cost of £2.40 should be able to confirm whether it was before or after 13.53 which would have an impact on his mitigation.

 

 

The responsibility for making sure that a P&D ticket was properly secured in place so as to be able to be read is the motorist's and even in windy conditions that is still the position as well as with the difficulties of coping with young children.

 

 

However much sympathy one may have for the Appellant this is not a matter of law which is the extent of an Adjudicator's remit as set out above and as a result this Appeal must be dismissed.

"

 

I am now in a position where I can no longer appeal anywhere nor can I pay the reduced fee.

 

It really makes me angry why I must still pay the fine even though I have a valid ticket and also why I am at fault in the adjudicator's eyes for not having a ticket which shows the start time .

 

 

.. I mean, the company who prints the tickets should be at fault there right?

 

As for the parking company, these are simple reasons why I feel their actions are simply to make money off of fines:

 

1) Why am I not allowed to show you them my valid parking ticket which should still be proof of payment after being accused of not paying?

2) Why is there no start time (ticket issued time) on their tickets?

3) Why don't they have a system which makes you enter your registration number?

4) Why don't they have the sticky backs on their tickets?

 

Does anyone have any suggestions? My fine needs to be settled by 02/08/16 and is £80

 

Thanks in advance!

[BazzaS]

 

Does anyone have any suggestions? My fine needs to be settled by 02/08/16 and is £80

 

Thanks in advance!

 

It isn't a fine.

 

To enforce the "parking charge" they'd have to show you hadn't bought a ticket. Your defence (if they took it to court, which they won't!) is that you bought a ticket to pay to park, and appealed on the basis you bought that ticket, which any reasonable parking company (are there any?) would have accepted.

 

So, it won't go to court. Hang on to the parking ticket that blew off, just in case, so that when they threaten, you know you have it, for reassurance.

 

What will happen (most likely, and others will be able to tell you the succession of letters to expect) is that you'll get an increasingly strident series of letters threatening they "may" do all sorts, (mortgage your first-born?, plagues of locusts up your car's exhaust and so-on), and then passing it on to different debt collection agencies (all of whom will be equally toothless).

 

Anyone know if Napier have their own in-house "tame solicitor" or in-house DCA (where they just change the letterhead in the printer before sending out the next batch of demands, supposedly from a different organization)?.

[dx100uk]

yep not a fine

simply a speculative invoice

 

as bazza says

if they were ever stupid enough to try a civil cliam

then you'd come out quids up in a costs claim for your wasted time

you already had a ticket

[poustilaki]

Thanks so much BazzaS & DX100uk, I really appreciate your replies and advice, next time you pass by Milton Keynes I'll buy you a coffee.

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

If you start getting letters you don't like, come back here and we'll give you a pep talk. As dx says, they can sound quite scary.

 

If you have time, have a read around for other Napier threads to see how they operate. Don't worry about it all though.

 

HB

[zydeco]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?465623-Napier-issued-FCN-June-2016-Failure-to-display-ticket-How-should-i-respond is worth a read, especially the advice from Ericsbrother.

[ericsbrother]

your mistake was to appeal before taking advice

as by doing so you have negated much of the protection given to motorists and keepers of vehicles offered by the PoFA 2012.

 

 

Please, if it happens again come here for advice first

as the advice you will be given now only suits your particular position

 

 

where as if you get another ticket the advice will be from a position of making the parking co dot every i and cross every t, which most of them cant do and so they dont have a chance of a successful claim.

 

Right, firstly,

this is about contract law in a general sense and not parking in particular.

You paid the prescribed fee to park (make use of the sevice offered) and showed your receipt.

This means that any claim against you must be for a material breach of that contract and the contract offered is by way of the signage at the entrance to the car park.

 

 

It that sign refers to other signage or conditions then it is not a contract but an invitation to treat

and the other terms then become open to offer and acceptance (or rejection if you dont like them).

 

 

So, did the signage specifically say that you were not allowed to have the receipt displayed on the floor of your vehicle?

- no

 

Also, if there is a condition that states the ticket must be displayed in the front windscreen

is there a suitable adhesive to make this not only possible but applicable as a condition of parking.

In shopt, no specific wording and no glue means that there is no breach of contract.

 

As for what else you say,

the IAS are not honest brokers but by definition a "kangaroo court"

so you can ignore their taradiddles and concentrate on what is important,

 

 

that is you paid to park and

you can prove it and

that is all the signs at the entrance say,

there is no mention of being penalised for not showing the receipt in the window..

 

 

This means that there has been no breach of contract and the parking co are abusing their position by demanding monies they are not due.

 

 

Also, I bet they have no contract with the landowner as the park is managed by a trust

so the LL is not directly involved in any of its operations or management,

let alone the details of some fourth party contract so Napier are stuffed there as well.

 

What to do?

dont worry about this nonsense from the IAS

when Napier send you another bill

just say there was no breach of the contract offered by the signage at the entrance to the land

and therefore no monies are owed.

 

 

They will then undoubtedly get some debt collector to write to you

but if that happens do not even respond to their letters,

just come back here and we will advice as to what to say and do at each stage.

 

Above all,

do not worry as that is what they want you to do.

they have no legitimate claim so rely on fear and threats of action they cannot justify to cow you into paying up.

 

 

If people knew the truth no-one would pay the they would all go bust

[poustilaki]

Thank you to all, I honestly appreciate it!

 

I got the first letter from them today ... I just feel so angry with these guys and especially the IAS with their comment about the ticket not having a start time so basically I need to pay up.

 

I am really leaning towards sending them and the IAS a letter giving my opinion of them

 

Once again, you all rock and can't thank you enough, I'll keep you posted as to what happens next!

[ericsbrother]

why bother wasting a stamp? You know they are (Edit) so make them spend their money chasing you for the moment. When it gets to a critical point you can respond but until them they will think you love them really asd will continue to pester you for money as they believ that you arent sure of your position.

Edited August 2, 2016 by maroondevo52
Removed unsuitable word.

[poustilaki]

 

You're right! Thanks again and let's see what happens.

[poustilaki]

Hi All,

 

Sorry for not replying earlier (and hopefully I'm not pestering you) but I thought this had gone away.

 

Yesterday I received a letter from bmlaw (the legal team representing Napier parking). They said I know have to pay £140 within x amount of days otherwise they will proceed with legal action via CCJ.

 

Please see attached the last letter I sent them towards the middle/end of last year.

 

Any suggestions please?

complaints-napier2.pdf

[ericsbrother]

I bet the letter doesnt say that at all

but as you arent wise to their ways you have interpreted the letter as saying this and that is their aim.

 

 

If you consider the matter carefully,

why has the demand gone up to £140

- what credit agreement did you sign with them to allow them to add such extra charges? None.

 

 

they know it but most people read the letter quickly and as it is from a company with the word LEGAL in the title panic themselves into thinking that somehow it all must be true or they wouldnt be saying it.

 

Post the letter up if you are still not reassured.

 

 

Ultimately they wil either go away or try their luck with a court claim.

 

 

This action is not as bad as it sounds as you have been forewarned and have already got most of the evidence you need to bat a claim away.

 

 

You can also claim from them for breach of the DPA if you fancy it.

[poustilaki]

Thanks again for your input - I have attached their 2 letters which arrived in the same envelope (just in case you notice something out of the ordinary). Apologies for the bad quality ... and again, thanks so much!!

[dx100uk]

PDF PLEASE

 

 

if you look carefully

the letters do not say WILL where.

 

 

dx

[ericsbrother]

I suggest that you write to BWL the following:

 

Dear Sirs,

I see that you have persuaded another no-hoper parking co to earn you money at their expense by chasing a non-existent debt.

 

 

Any claim is bound to fail for reasons already given and both you and your client know it but seem to think that I am as stupid as they are.

 

 

I hope that when you convey this to them they take the trouble to consider the costs of continuing this pretence and give up listening to bad advice from a bunch of incompetents that feed in the murk of the IPC backwaters.

 

Basically letting them know that you are not going to be food for their legal sharks

so dont pull any punches nor consider politeness being necessary either.

 

 

What is the worse they can do?

 

 

Use this letter in their evidence that you are obviously a naughty person for being rude to a dodgy solicitor.

 

 

If they dont pass the letter on and you refer to it they are going to show their true colours anyway

[poustilaki]

Thanks again, great suggestion and exactly what I will do. I have by the way, no attached the 2 letters again that they sent me hopefully in a better format and quality (sorry for the delay).

napierletters 2pages.pdf

[poustilaki]

Hello All,

 

Sorry for bringing up this old post again but there has just been a new event ... over a year later.

 

So yesterday, I get this letter in the post along with the letters and images sent to me by Napier over a year ago.

 

I'm not sure what to do, do I ignore it or do I reply with a letter saying I have proof of ticket etc etc.

 

Any help/suggestions would be so very much appreciated!

 

Thanks

bwlegal.pdf

[dx100uk]

ignore

 

ignore until/unless you get a letter of claim

or

a county court claimform

[ericsbrother]

this is just a threatogram sent out by the parking worlds second worst solicitors. It has no more legal weight than any letter sent out by a dca, ie none.

Ignore.

[poustilaki]

As always - thank you very much, it's really appreciated!