Received a letter from Loans 2go over car we bought

[spamheed 1,973]

Cutting a long story very short,

 

 

bought a car in May 2016 for a few hundred pounds,

have received a letter from Loans 2go

saying vehicle was subject to security by the owner previous to the one we bought from

and to contact L2Go.

 

Called them this morning and asked to see copy of BOS and authorisation over the vehicle,

they said they would release their clam for over three times what we bought the vehicle for. :-x

the amount requested is laughably high,

the vehicle would be worth maybe £200 at auction,

the person on the other end of the line said we have 10 days to respond

 

Obviously courts are closed for the weekend.

 

 

Advice please

 

Have reported the matter to the police as a pontential fraud

[spamheed 1,973]

Cutting a long story very short, bought a car in May 2016 for a few hundred pounds, have received a letter from Loans 2go saying vehicle was subject to security by the owner previous to the one we bought from and to contact L2Go.

 

Called them this morning and asked to see copy of BOS and authorisation over the vehicle, they said they would release their clam for over three times what we bought the vehicle for. the amount requested is laughably high, the vehicle would be worth maybe £200 at auction, the person on the other end of the line said we have 10 days to respond

 

Obviously courts are closed for the weekend. Advice please

 

Have reported the matter to the police as a pontential fraud

[obiter dictum 250]

Cars sold with a logbook loan against them can be repossessed by the lender even though the new owner did not take out the loan

[dx100uk 9,631]

you've prob already seen these

but..

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?447914-447914&p=4753829#post4753829

[fkofilee 1,341]

So A Logbook Loan is against this vehicle at present?

 

Did you do a HPI Check? Also you could check with the courts on Monday when they open?

[spamheed 1,973]

This I know, but do they need to first obtain an order from the court.

 

 

obviously we'll check that the BOS is correct and registered and any other authorities are in place,

but in the mean time can they simply roll up and take the car

 

The loan was taken out by the person who owned the vehicle before the person who sold it to us,

so we are seeing the police as firstly it shouldn't have been sold to him

and secondly I reckon the person who sold it to us,

only did so because he was contacted by the loan company

and that would constitute fraud,

ie. knowingly selling goods to which you have no rights.

 

This being the case,

can they simply send out a lifter and take the car,

or would they need to go through the courts first

[spamheed 1,973]

Yes a lbl is against the vehicle at the moment

 

The car was bought for only a couple of hundred pounds, so no HPI checks were done,

 

It was a private sale and they aren't answering the phone at the mo

 

Yes will be calling the courts to see if the BOS is registered and the LBL company are allegedly sending me a copy of the BOS as held by them.

[obiter dictum 250]

No order is required from the court as Bills of sale operate outside of section 92 CCA 1974

[dx100uk 9,631]

the repo lot have no legal powers they are NOT BAILIFFS

 

 

force L2GO into court if they want the car

typically they only have a photocopy of the V% and that's a bit dodgy.

 

 

don't park the car on a public road overnight

keep the car on private land

all the better

behind lock and key whilst not in use.

 

 

dx

[spamheed 1,973]

Yes Dx, have read them, very useful, to a point,

 

If the police become involved can they still lift the car?

 

Yes that's what I thought, they would have to force their claim

[obiter dictum 250]

A bill of sale comes in two sections.

 

The first section is the fixed-sum loan agreement. Then you have the security by way of bill of sale; it's a very archaic method of securing a debt against an asset -

 

https://www.stepchange.org/debt-info/logbook-loan-debt.aspx

 

If a logbook loan has defaulted, the creditor can repossess your car. They must wait a minimum of five days after the account has defaulted before they can take the vehicle away. They don’t need to take you to court to do this.

[dx100uk 9,631]

things are a bit diff if the new owner is not the debtor.

keep the car off of public roads when not in use.

 

the repo guys have no powers whatsoever they are not bailiffs

they cannot force entry

and cannot repo of private land without your consent

no matter what they.

 

you have 10 days, you should be able to resolve this.

before it comes to that

 

the police wont get involved at this stage

one of loans2go's biggest issues is they sometimes only have a photocopy of the V5

that doesn't wash.

[spamheed 1,973]

So we will try to keep the car away from home and out of sight

Not overly concerned if I am there,

it's the "turning up in the middle of the night and lifting the car situation" which concerns me

 

In fairness the person I spoke to did say that the amount they wanted to release the vehicle was negotiable,

but when the car is valued at about £400 and their starting position is close to £2000,

negotiations don't bode well. we shall see what they produce by way of documentation.

 

I was hoping they would consider the fraud element from the persons selling the car,

rather than the lbl company

I have done well (historically) out of companies such as these

and a few far larger keeping poor documentation, or none at all.

 

As this is not CCA related I am in unfamiliar territory.

Are they required to hold a copy of the logbook,

or would the BOS be sufficient for them to prove "ownership"

[obiter dictum 250]

Your only option would be to take action in the Civil Court for the amount you paid for the vehicle against the seller. The only reason they ask for the Log Book is that it is easier to sell at auction and proves ownership. All that is needed is the Bill of Sale to Prove ownership. Logbook loans temporarily owns the vehicle until the loan agreement has been paid.

Edited July 23, 2016 by obiter dictum

[spamheed 1,973]

Lets hope they've cocked up with the BOS then

[obiter dictum 250]

If the BOS has not been registered in the High Court in the required time span by Logbook Loans the full protection of the CCA 1974 will apply. As in section 92 to the buyer

 

The BOS has to be registered at the High Court within 7 days of signing

Edited July 23, 2016 by obiter dictum

[spamheed 1,973]

Just for the records, the courts cannot search for a bill of sale using the vehicles registration number,

you need the court case number (from the bill of sale) or the creditors details,

 

 

just spent a pointless day chasing around trying to find out if the Bill of Sale is authentic etc,

 

 

only to eventually be told what I actually need and that in all likelihood,

 

 

it will be registered because these companies have lost so many times because of this, that it's prudent to do so

[obiter dictum 250]

All you need to know is the persons name and address who made out the Bill of Sale. I believe since 2009 the records are now computerised so a search is easy

[spamheed 1,973]

All you need to know is the persons name and address who made out the Bill of Sale. I believe since 2009 the records are now computerised so a search is easy

as the lady in the enforcements team advised me yesterday, there are quite a few companies who register bills of sale, so the identity of the company registering the bill would be of little use, you would need the name and address of the person who took out the loan or the number of the agreement against which the bill of sale was raised and in my case they weren't the person I bought the vehicle from, so such information is unavailable to me, cheers

[dx100uk 9,631]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?452164-Log-Book-Loan-Guidance&p=4791345#post4791345

from my notes. [prob same as above!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

logbook loan repossessions are not always legal,

.

if linked to a CCA agreement or if the BOS has not been registered with the high court.

.

If BOS registered then yes they can reposses,

but have to show registration and debt details.

Registration

A bill of sale can only be enforced if it was properly registered.

Since this is an expensive and difficult process,

it is rare that this actually happens.

However, failure to register the bill of sale renders it void,

and so renders any security on goods void.

.

Consequently, before allowing any creditor to gain possession of your goods,

ask to see a registered copy of the bill showing the supreme courts seal.

.

You can also call the national debt line, and ask them how to search the registry yourself.

.

Also a valid DN must be issued.

.

If linked to a CCA then can not reposses if on private property without a court order

( but can if on public road and under a third has only been paid ).

.

Over a third, they need a court order wherever it is.

.

check for...[bOS]

.

No Independant signature

No Independant Witness

Not Registered With The High Court In 7 Days

not registered AT ALL!

.

Credit Agreement Details Not On The Bill Of Sale

You should also check that the name on the registration documents

matches the name of the person who signed the BOS

On occasions these cars get sold on several times

.

how to check:

.

email:[email protected] ov.uk.[no spaces]

.

ring:020 7947 7772

.

write:

QB Enforcement Section,

Room E15-E17,

Royal Courts of Justice,

Strand, London, WC2A

...

.

ideally you need the BOS number

.

however

they can search by the Reg Number

.

...............

also see:

http://www.fca.org.uk/firms/firm-types/consumer-credit/consumer-credit-research/logbook-loans

.....

Do you have a problem with a Logbook Loan?

With Citizens advice estimating that over 60,000 of these loans were taken out in 2014 alone

an increasing number a causing severe difficulty and distress for borrowers.

.

In this guide we explain what a logbook loan is, and how they work.

What you can do if you have a repayment problem,

and what you can do if you have unknowingly bought a car with a logbook loan attached.

.

Three golden rules for Logbbok Loans

.

1)No matter how desperate you are to purchase a car, or raise cash,

NEVER consider this type of Finance

These loans are designed purely for the benefit of the lenders.

With APRs of 400+%, little consumer protection, and aggressive debt collectionicon practices

they should be avoided at all costs.

.

2)When purchasing a used car from whatever source,private or trade,

ALWAYS do a FULL GENUINE HPI CHECK costing around £20,

these come with a guarantee against any form of existing finance, including lbl's

.

3)If you have any problem with a Logbook Loan,

your first step is ALWAYS to check that the Bill Of Sale has been registered

with the High Court. You can do this here-

.

to check if registered

.

Contact Details

.

QB Enforcement Section

Room E15-17

Royal Courts of Justice

Strand

London

WC2A 2LL

DX 44450 Strand

.

Telephone: 020 7947 7772

Fax: 0870 324 0024

Email: [email protected] ov.uk

.

You may read on the internet that your BOSicon will be void if witnessed by your lbl lender

.

Since the OFT( as was) lost the attestation case on appeal by 2 to1 this is NOT the case

.

full details here http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup...method=boolean

.

Logbook loans are a form of credit dating back to the Victorian era,

derived from the 1878/1882 Bills Of Sale Acts, with terms and conditions to match in many cases.

.

Problems are manyfold from extortionate charges by lenders for calling a customer,

to repossessions where owners have been left at the side of a busy road,

unable to get to work, and even sexual harassment via debt collection.

.

Poor practices abound, unsurprising when there is no incentive for lenders

to ensure their customers understand the terms or can afford the repayments.

In fact the very nature of this form of finance could be seen to encourage bad behaviour

– why carry out affordability checks if a single missed payments means you get to keep

the money and takeaway the car?

.

.

How does it work?

.

When you take out a logbook loan you will be asked to hand over your vehicle’s logbook

or vehicle registration document, which proves you are the registered keeper of the vehicle.

.

You’ll also have to sign a credit agreement and a form called a ‘bill of sale’.

This means the lender now owns your vehicle on a temporary basis

but you are still able to use it so long as you meet all loan repayments.

.

These documents are recognised by law in England, Wales and Northern Ireland

but are not used in Scotland.

.

The law only recognises a bill of sale if the lender registers it with the High Court.

If it’s not registered, the lender must get a court’s approval to repossess your vehicle.

.

You should check if the bill of sale is registered.

.

What you should do if you have a repayment problem

.

1) check your Bill Of Sale is registered as above

.

2) the lender must send you a default notice which complies with the requirements of s87(1)cca1974

.

allowing you fourteen clear days to remedy any default (which can be after one missed payment)

.

You should , if your lender will not negotiate a reduced payment, straight away on receipt of the dn

.

look to take out a time order. This gains you the protection of the court, which can look into the overall loan--

https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/...t/Default.aspx

.

What you can do if you have purchased a car with an existing logbook loan

.

If you receive a letter threatening to repossess the car or an enforcement officer

turns up at your home to take it, you may not be able to stop them.

.

•ask to see proof of their identity and their authorisation to take the car

•ask to see the bill of sale document – they have to show you this if you ask for it

•if you feel threatened by how an enforcement officer is behaving, call the polic

•ask for written confirmation of what has been taken

•get the contact details for the logbook loan company.

.

If the lender has taken your car, you can try to get it back

and reclaim your money from the seller.

However, this can be a costly and time-consuming process and is not guaranteed to succeed.

.

If you want to get the car back, you could pay off the outstanding loan

and then take the person who sold you the car to court, to try to get your money back.

.

If you just want to get your money back, you can take the person who sold you the car to court.

Always get independent advice before you decide to take someone to court.

.

Some lenders are members of the consumer crediticon Trade Association (CCTA),

which has a code of practice covering logbook loans.

The code of practice says the lender must register the logbook loan on a register,

so it will show up when you carry out a history check on the car.

It also says they must obey certain rules when they repossess a car.

.

If you are unhappy with the way a logbook loan lender or its enforcement officers have behaved,

find out whether they are a member. If so, you can complain directly to the CCTA.

However this code is regularly ignored

.

http://www.ccta.co.uk/content/our-code.aspx

.

Finally both the Financial Conduct Authority and the Law Commission are investigating

Logbook Lending and the associated legislation,

full details here--

.

http://www.fca.org.uk/firms/firm-typ.../logbook-loans

.

http://lawcommission.justice.gov.uk/...ls-of-sale.htm

.

for anyones info, you must act immediately on receipt of a default notice

.

What you should do if you have a repayment problem

.

1) check your Bill Of Sale is registered as above

.

2) the lender must send you a default notice which complies with the requirements of s87(1)cca1974

allowing you fourteen clear days to remedy any default (which can be after one missed payment)

.

You should , if your lender will not negotiate a reduced payment, straight away on receipt of the default notice look to take out a time order. This gains you the protection of the court, which can look into the overall loan--

.

https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/...t/Default.aspx

Bills of Sale Act does not apply in Scotland,

just to reassure you from the Money Advice Service *Taking out a logbook loan in Scotland*

In Scotland, ‘bills of sale’ cannot be used as security and are not legally binding.

Lenders in Scotland are therefore likely to be operating under different credit arrangements.

If the logbook loan is a ‘hire-purchase agreement’ or a ‘conditional sale’, your consumer rights and protection under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 will apply.

 

.

dx

[theoldrouge 793]

In order to keep the car you will need to negotiate hard

But first demand their proof of ownership

Demand a stamped signed copy of the BOS

prior to any negotiation

Read the following especially L2G response

and para 7.1 use this in your negotiations

 

http://www.lawcom.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/cp225_bills_of_sale_analysis.pdf

[spamheed 1,973]

So we were sent a copy of the stamped Bill Of Sale, which we verified with the courts, registered correctly

 

 

It turns out that the original loan was being serviced and had not been defaulted and they were trying to maximize their returns on this loan

They didn't want to repo the car, but just wanted us to be aware that they owned it and could repo it at any time they wanted.

 

 

Told them I'd simply revert the car to scrap value and let them get on with it, car would be worth maybe £70, would cost them at least £200 to lift the vehicle without its wheels or any of the other parts we'd added.

 

 

In light of the fact there was no way they would make money out of this deal playing hardball, after a couple of phone calls we managed to get the charge down to a couple of hundred pounds, not great but better than having to strip all of our parts off this car and buy another car.

 

 

it truly is a criminal system, where an innocent buyer can be robbed legally by an unscrupulous lender

[cupcake girl 1]

Hi what I did was put it on a friend's private drive and took the wheels off

 

 

the logbook people did come up to get the car but were unable to take it as it was on a private drive not at my address

they need a court order to go onto a private drive to get the car

 

 

whatever you do don't let the take it

 

 

I've campaigned the the law to be change

 

 

I've spoken on BBC radio 4 and bbc news hopefully the law will change

[obiter dictum 250]

I think you will find they can take it off your drive, or go onto private property to sieze the vehicle.

 

 

The Court order is with agreements secured under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

 

Log book loans are secured under a Bill of Sale with a consumer credit agreement.

 

 

That is why they use a Bill of Sale to bypass the Consumer Credit Act

 

But i am open to be proved in error though