fact finding meeting - accused of taking stuff - ** RESOLVED **

[Jacks04]

Hi

 

I have worked for a company (supported living) for past 8 1/2 years.

 

Two days ago a manager came to my base and after 20 mins of faffing about asked me to come to our head office because he wanted to ask me a few questions..

... a fact finder....nothing to worry about (his words).

 

Once there he introduced me to the note taker and added that she used to work for the police.

..........he then pulled out some notes and questioned me about my activities on a certain day..

....which was roughly four weeks previous.

 

I stated the obvious fact that he was asking me to remember a working day nearly a month ago.....

...he said he would jog my memory by mentioning a one off event I supported someone to in town.

 

I gave information from memory then he informed me that an allegation had been made against me regarding using ingredients from tenants house to make something for myself to take home.......

..........gobsmacked is an understatement,

accusation made from casual staff on duty that day (one of two)

who both finished their shift hours before i finished mine.

 

Obviously upset I was offered the option of going home but i chose to return to my base.....

....back there my manager saw i was upset

and on finding out I wasnt even 100% sure what I had just been accused of...

 

she rang the fact finder only to be reprimanded along with myself for not adhering to confidentiality !!!!!

 

Does anyone have any advice (theres more to this too but my head is completely mashed with this right now)

 

Thanks in advance for any help or advice

[unclebulgaria67]

This is standard practice during any disciplinary process. An allegation has been made. They go thorough a fact finding process to see if there is any evidence to back up the allegation. If they find insufficient evidence, it will go no further and you will be told. If your employers have evidence, which might be accounts of two people, then you will be invited to a formal disciplinary meeting to discuss what they have found out. You will be given opportunity to defend and can take a colleague or other person with you to act as support/note taker.

 

Best to continue working as normal and not get involved in what is being investigated.

[Emmzzi]

I would also suggest that if you haven't been suspended it's regarded as a minor incident - serious safekeeping concerns mean you are removed from the work environment until it is resolved.

[Jacks04]

Thank you for replying, I really appreciate it. Ive since found out (from notes taken at meeting i had) that its about making cakes that someone said I took home. The notes are wrong, well the wording on them are, ive been asked to sign these and take them to work. I still dont 100% remember that day but i messaged girl I was on shift with and asked her and she replied......yep my first time ever making rainbow cupcakes but id not documented the activity but I had 3 days earlier.........I would never steal anything and if i was that way inclined why would I openly do this in front of 3 other staff risking my job when I lone work after 8pm ?? Ive tried to carry on working as normal but its difficult when your not allowed to offload to anyone, plus I keep breaking down and its causing massive stress at home ive even cancelled going on holiday next week through all this

[donarebun]

Please don't sign anything until you are sure that was said during the meeting.

 

Make an enquiry why it too so long for this to come up.

 

Remember Laches is a defence in Law.

[Jacks04]

Hi

 

Thanks for reply. The answers given by me are not word for word and just one line answers and even sound like I am blaming other staff which I would not do. After i came out of meeting i jotted down some notes myself because I wasnt allowed a witness with me...........Ive put a letter in with notes and statement relating to questions I was asked but not signed their notes just my hand written statement...........im also on shift at weekend with one of the two casual staff that were on duty that day . By the way how long should it have been after allegation should I have been questioned because nearly four weeks later seems too long

[BazzaS]

Hi

im also on shift at weekend with one of the two casual staff that were on duty that day.

 

Don't be tempted to discuss the events (or the complaint!) with them.

[donarebun]

Hi

 

. By the way how long should it have been after allegation should I have been questioned because nearly four weeks later seems too long

 

I should have thought immediately.

 

But that's a question for them to answer. Let them tell you when they heard about it and why the delay.

 

Some people have retentive memory and some don't, some might recall things a year ago some can't recall things two weeks ago.

 

If there was excessive delay on their part then they forfeited their rights.

 

They have to show that they acted swiftly.

 

All you should do is ask the tough and right questions and lets see if they can come up with good answers.

[donarebun]

Remember what they say; "attack is the best form of defence".

 

Keep asking the right questions and you might get an apology from them.

 

Unfortunately I don't think you will ever get any compensation but you will gain respect from them.

 

You will get treated better in the future.

[Emmzzi]

Remember what they say; "attack is the best form of defence".

 

.

 

If you wish your employment to be a war zone.

[donarebun]

If you wish your employment to be a war zone.

 

I was nice and I lost my job!

 

The OP can be nice and see how far it gets him.

 

The employer got the information 4 weeks ago and did nothing.

 

All of a sudden they have now brought it up.

 

My honest belief is that they are trying to get rid of him and they are trying to use that old info as ammo.

 

I may be wrong but it is up to the OP how much he values his job to take chances

[Emmzzi]

OP is currently not suspended and will be having a discussion about cup cakes. There is no suggestion they are being bullied. This is very different to your case and different advice is appropriate. Going at it like a bull in a china shop will do nothing except make them look like they have something to hide!

[king12345]

I was nice and I lost my job!

 

The OP can be nice and see how far it gets him.

 

The employer got the information 4 weeks ago and did nothing.

 

All of a sudden they have now brought it up.

 

My honest belief is that they are trying to get rid of him and they are trying to use that old info as ammo.

 

I may be wrong but it is up to the OP how much he values his job to take chances

 

Unfortunately I have to agree with this comment.

In my experience the management is in the business of preying on the weak characters.

I was nice once and they got to the extent of fabricating a complaint and falsify my signature on an admission statement.

Fortunately I audio recorded the meeting and threatened to start private prosecution for falsification of official documents.

The people involved resigned and one of them is now living in poverty.

Serves them well.

They left me alone since then, understanding that they were messing about with the wrong sheep.

As there's no evidence in the op's case I would start a grievance process against the accusers.

If the policy doesn't allow this to be done while they investigate, send them an intention to start a grievance so they know they're on dangerous ground.

I admit that this might backfire, but in my experience managers are a bunch of cowards self professed intelligent being when in fact they couldn't organise a **** up in a brewery.

[neword]

I have witnessed this type of situation before,

 

Employer takes on some casual staff, few weeks later there's a complaint by casual staff against a full time employee,

Then there's a disciplinary meeting, employee eventually gets booted out and a casual staff is given the vacant job.

 

I would certainly let the employer know that it will be your intention to file a grievance process against the casual staff for

making false accusations and that should the employer accept their words over yours then you will also follow the route

of claiming for unfair dismissal. After all, what have you got to lose now, you relationship with the employer, the casual staff

and the company is now soured and you will forever feel uncomfortable from now on.

 

I would subtly let the casual staff know of your intentions, just the little hint of impending intent just to make them nervous and

let them know they not going to get away with it.

 

I would also make the employer feel nervous by hinting along the lines that you have had some legal advice and that you will

be following that advice (you do not have to say what that advice was).

[renegadeimp]

I would subtly let the casual staff know of your intentions, just the little hint of impending intent just to make them nervous and

let them know they not going to get away with it.

 

VERY bad idea

[BazzaS]

VERY bad idea

 

I concur : bad idea.

 

At the moment, OP is facing an investigation for something so minor they haven't been suspended.

 

Being seen to be interfering with that investigation risks a new disciplinary: one that would likely involve suspension and would be much easier to find misconduct!.

 

If the employer isn't "out to get" the OP it risks making things much worse.

If the employer is "out to get" the OP : why hand them "gross misconduct" on a plate for them to use against you!

 

This is why I previously noted

Don't be tempted to discuss the events (or the complaint!) with them.

[Jacks04]

Hi everyone thanks so much for your replies and help on this I appreciate this so much. Just had couple of days off stressing about the whole thing. Here is an update though........ I did not sign fact finding notes, instead I typed a statement and also a couple of questions and answers that I felt were not recorded correctly, glad I took my own notes soon as I left meeting. Anyway I gave these to fact finder and he looked through them and said it was fine.......he then noted i am on 2 weeks annual leave from the 25th and then asked me if I would come in if needed (for any further meeting or anything) and continued to say in his experience and when he has dealt with things like this before they dont usually go to worst case scenario BUT like he said he has to look over everything and make a decision and i probs wouldnt want to be stressing over it my whole time off.........I reminded him that it was a bit late for that (stopping me stressing). I dont feel I should feel pressured into dealing with this whilst on leave. Can anyone tell me if during fact finding they interview all those on shift or just the person making the accusation and the one they are making it against??.........Thanks again for all advice

[BazzaS]

They should interview anyone with relevant information, to ensure a fair decision. However, the way the people are questioned should be non-leading, using "open" questions ("closed" questions may be appropriate to follow up on information volunteered, either with the original complainant or other person who gives relevant info).

[Jacks04]

Hi, thanks again for replying. I know one ot the 3 other staff i was on with has not been questioned and she only does the odd shift so maybe recalls more than I do ...... and has told someone I did not do what ive been accused of but cant say anything YET because she doesnt want them adding the accusation of breaking confidentiality to all this. Apparently she cant understand why they have not questioned her about anything. It all just feels a bit cloak and dagger to me, is this how fact finding is conducted just speaking to who they choose? Soy you probs all bloody bored with this now

[donarebun]

Hi,

 

Like I said earlier ask a lot of questions but to management only.

 

I believe they are testing the water to see if they can easily get rid of you.

 

Don't go to the alleged informer but just ask management tough questions and it will put them off getting rid of you.

 

Bullies are always scared of tough people ie people who put up a fight.

 

Bullies respect tough people and treat them with dignity.

 

I will always suggest you act tough, even if you are not actually tough, to keep your job.

[renegadeimp]

Hi,

 

Like I said earlier ask a lot of questions but to management only.

 

I believe they are testing the water to see if they can easily get rid of you.

 

Don't go to the alleged informer but just ask management tough questions and it will put them off getting rid of you.

 

Bullies are always scared of tough people ie people who put up a fight.

 

Bullies respect tough people and treat them with dignity.

 

I will always suggest you act tough, even if you are not actually tough, to keep your job.

 

The real world and employment doesnt work like that.

[Emmzzi]

Hello,

 

make management aware of your witness and ask them to ensure they are interviewed. Maybe drop them an email?

[Jacks04]

Hi thanks for replying, when I gave amended notes in person to 'fact finder' (who wholly decides if there is even a case to answer to) he told me himself from his experience of dealing with similar cases its not going to go to worst case scenario ....... as in losing my job!! Then added 'thats if nothing else comes to light'........ I replied that nothing else WILL come to light and by the sounds of things you have already marked me guilty!! I am on 2 weeks annual leave from today and he has asked me if I will go in if needed for any further enquiries/meetings...........I told him no he will have to wait till I am back at work and as far as I am concerned I have done nothing wrong and refuse to spend my annual leave stressing anymore over all this. I am not dragging any of my co workers into this mess unless I have no choice, not even upset over this anymore I am angry because I cancelled going away with my family over this crap

[donarebun]

The real world and employment doesnt work like that.

 

I guess the real world and employment works by waiting 4 weeks before investigating an issue.

 

I guess the real world and employment works by failing to speak to relevant witnesses.

 

The OP has a choice: either be the nice guy and be messed about with or stand up to bullies.

 

The choice is his to make only.

 

I can only advice.

 

By the way I take it that bullies exist in the real world?

[Emmzzi]

I guess the real world and employment works by waiting 4 weeks before investigating an issue.

 

I guess the real world and employment works by failing to speak to relevant witnesses.

 

The OP has a choice: either be the nice guy and be messed about with or stand up to bullies.

 

The choice is his to make only.

 

I can only advice.

 

By the way I take it that bullies exist in the real world?

 

 

There is a whole range of behaviours between these two extremes; the world is not sectioned into good and bad people.

 

I will note however that being an irritating PITA at work makes managers very keen to find ways to exit you. So if they are not already set that you are for the door, there is no point in making yourself a target!

 

I am sorry that your own experience was not good but I think you assumption that what happened to you is universal, is clouding your advice.