Marston bailiffs for CCJ for water rates

[whitsend]

I have just sorted out my council tax and I have now had a letter from marstons, saying they are coming with removal contractors on July 21st. This is for a CCJ to severn trent water.

 

I was already aware I was behind with this and had filed a N245 for a variation, however when I phone Bradford County Court on Friday they said they were just about to deal with it.

 

Do their officers have right of entry. Should I tell them that the N245 has be sent. There will not be any cars there and I will not be at home. But I don't want them to break in.

 

I was under the impression they could not force entry.

[dx100uk]

what are marstons doing with it

they are not court bailiffs

 

 

looks like trent have gotten them involved as HCEO's?

 

 

no right of entry at all

treat this the same as a CTAX debt ..ignore in a way.

 

 

N245 will stop it all

[whitsend]

Thanks, I thought not

 

Shall I ignore this or phone them and tell them about the n245

[dx100uk]

bet it wont make a ounce of diff they'll still prob try and add the £325 fees etc.

 

 

when was the CCJ granted

did you not defend?

[Bailiff Advice]

 

what are marstons doing with it they are not court bailiffs

 

looks like trent have gotten them involved as HCEO's? no right of entry at all

 

treat this the same as a CTAX debt ..ignore in a way. N245 will stop it all

 

 

DX, Marston Holdings consists of one of the largest High Court enforcement companies. You mention in your next posts that they will try to add £325 onto the debt (I assumed that you meant £235).

 

Given that this is a debt that has been transferred to the High Court, the fee scale is significantly more. With these type of debts, if you wish to enter into a payment arrangement, an enforcement agent must attend the debtor's address. The link below is to the Explanatory Memorandum supporting the Taking Control of Goods (Fees) regulations 2014, and you will see under section 7.3, why the initial visit is mandatory.

 

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014/1/pdfs/uksiem_20140001_en.pdf

 

You have also indicated that the OP should treat the debt in the same way as council tax and ignore. If, the OP were to do this, she will find herself lumbered with the Stage 2 fee of £495 (fee scale below).

 

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014/1/schedule/made?view=plain

 

 

Until the creditor has agreed the 'variation' (N245), enforcement by Marston's can continue.

 

Whisend.......what date did you submit your N245 application?

[Coughdrop]

There will not be any cars there and I will not be at home. But I don't want them to break in.

 

I was under the impression they could not force entry.

 

Hi Whitsend,

 

Firstly, I make no claims to be an expert with HCEO's, so I hope people correct me if what I state below is incorrect.

 

Here's a post from one of the forum's High Court experts:

 

ploddertom wrote.......

 

As long as it is your main home then there is no automatic right of entry and it would be a seriously bad idea to let him in. .........

 

Do you have any detached buildings on site - if so then he does have the right to force entry to these if he believes there are goods inside that may help satisfy the debt. Just make sure you keep all your doors locked for now & if possible record each visit. It should not take him long to realise there are no pickings and the Writ should be sent back to the Claimant - who could instruct another HCEO of course.

 

There is one proviso to this and that is if you are leaving your Bentley or Ferrari on the drive next to your sea going yacht then they could apply for forced entry under the belief you had mad stacks of cash and had bought items rather than pay your debt, I imagine this is not your scenario but feel it fair to point it out.

 

This was a different context, but I imagine the same applies in your case.

 

The issue of waiting for a debt to be returned as advised above is a little controversial on here, but this person is highly respected, so I imagine it is solid advice - there were certainly no comments to suggest it is debt avoidance or anything.

 

More importantly, it appears to clarify there is no automatic right of forced entry, something backed up by reading I've been doing in material from The Sheriffs Office, and in an old bailiff handbook I was reading at the weekend which went into huge detail about access rights - a topic of some real interest at present.

[Peterbard]

Hi

 

I notice that you have work premises, just for clarity the CCJ relates to your home ?

 

 

 

In addition under the new rules he cannot force entry to external building if they are secured, this was a former entitlement no longer available to the HCEO.

[Peterbard]

see grumpy is here. Stand by your beds !

 

I think it is also true that the HCEO can force entry to the place where the debtor has a business or occupation, as long a there is reasonable belief that there are goods which are available for seizure within.

 

I agree with the statement that the writ will be returned and as the same statement also says , it can easily be assigned to another agent. I think this has been adequately proven in your last thread.

[whitsend]

Ok, I have had the n245 returned today by Bradford CountyForcourt, saying I need to fill in a n244 not a n245 as it is a high court writ. I have an appointment with my court on Friday 10.30. That is the earliest they can get me an appointment to file it.

 

I have rang marstons and they say they are coming tomorrow to take my cars. Which are currently locked in someone elses warehouse. They say if they can't gain entry, they will go back to court for a warrant to enter.

 

This debt is 5110, as they did not send me any bills for a number of years. I was defending but the court judged as they said they did not receive a defense. Or they received it too late. I was defending it as Severn Trent could not produce any bills only a list of amounts on a spreadsheet.

 

Not sure what to put on the n244.

[whitsend]

Hi

 

I notice that you have work premises, just for clarity the CCJ relates to your home ?

 

 

 

In addition under the new rules he cannot force entry to external building if they are secured, this was a former entitlement no longer available to the HCEO.

 

No to my home address. I did have one business registered to my home address but I changed this today.

[whitsend]

DX, Marston Holdings consists of one of the largest High Court enforcement companies. You mention in your next posts that they will try to add £325 onto the debt (I assumed that you meant £235).

 

Given that this is a debt that has been transferred to the High Court, the fee scale is significantly more. With these type of debts, if you wish to enter into a payment arrangement, an enforcement agent must attend the debtor's address. The link below is to the Explanatory Memorandum supporting the Taking Control of Goods (Fees) regulations 2014, and you will see under section 7.3, why the initial visit is mandatory.

 

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014/1/pdfs/uksiem_20140001_en.pdf

 

You have also indicated that the OP should treat the debt in the same way as council tax and ignore. If, the OP were to do this, she will find herself lumbered with the Stage 2 fee of £495 (fee scale below).

 

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014/1/schedule/made?view=plain

 

 

Until the creditor has agreed the 'variation' (N245), enforcement by Marston's can continue.

 

Whisend.......what date did you submit your N245 application?

 

I sent it the same day as the bailiff visited, I had already filled it in ready to go as I was 3 months in agrears. They have sent it back saying it is the wrong form. I need a n244 to stay a high court writ of control.

[whitsend]

Can I apply to set aside as I did send in a defense within the time limit. The court said they did not get it in time.

[Peterbard]

If the debt is registered to you, and your business is the place you usually cary out you trade they can enforce there anyway.

(6)Otherwise premises are relevant if the enforcement agent reasonably believes that they are the place, or one of the places, where the debtor—

(a)usually lives, or

(b)carries on a trade or business

[whitsend]

I changed a business I do not use to my other work address on companies house, as I was told they can force entry into a business premises if they think you have private belongings there.

 

I use one of my cars for work, but I thought it was easier to hide it than try to prove it. and I would not know how to prove it anyway.

[Bailiff Advice]

Can I apply to set aside as I did send in a defense within the time limit. The court said they did not get it in time.

 

Only you can decide whether you wish to use the N244 to 'Stay the Proceedings' or to 'Set Aside' the judgment.

 

To help you decide, it would be best for you to carefully read the excellent guidance in the following link written by the forums 'expert' Ploddertom:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?454644-What-Form-What-For-Where-does-it-go

[whitsend]

I have read that and as it says no receiving documents would not count as a good enough reason.

 

I want to reduce the payments, as I cannot afford these, thats why I sent in a n245. So I take it I must ask for a stay of proceedings.

 

With bailiffs visiting tomorrow, they have already added fees for tomorrow, so I do not want anymore fees.

 

They have also told me they will be going back to court for a warrant to force entry, if they cannot get in tomorrow, how long will this take.

[Peterbard]

I changed a business I do not use to my other work address on companies house, as I was told they can force entry into a business premises if they think you have private belongings there.

 

I use one of my cars for work, but I thought it was easier to hide it than try to prove it. and I would not know how to prove it anyway.

 

Yes, i said the same earlier, however they may attend. Do you have grounds to set aside ?

[Peterbard]

I have read that and as it says no receiving documents would not count as a good enough reason.

 

I want to reduce the payments, as I cannot afford these, thats why I sent in a n245. So I take it I must ask for a stay of proceedings.

 

With bailiffs visiting tomorrow, they have already added fees for tomorrow, so I do not want anymore fees.

 

They have also told me they will be going back to court for a warrant to force entry, if they cannot get in tomorrow, how long will this take.

 

They cannot force entry into your home to enforce a CCJ, and no warrant would be granted, even if they were to apply for one. Unless they previously have had entry and you signed a controlled goods agreement.

 

The account will go back to the creditor if the enforcment is unsuccessful and the creditor will have to pay the compliance fee.

 

Unfortunately there is an array of measures the court can take after this,charging order, bankruptcy etc. Did you make a reasonable offer to the bailiff earlier in the enforcment.

[Leakie]

You are partly correct DB over the bankruptcy

the limit was raise from £700 to I believe £5000 to make a debtor Bankrupt,

Also the creditor would have to pay a hefty fee to commence Bankrupcy

[Peterbard]

No I m absolutely correct as usual. The OP has not mentioned a sum, also ther is a £1000 minimum on a charging order also, which i did not think worth mentioning.

 

In addition it costs nothing to issue a statutory demand.

[Peterbard]

Oh and it was raised form £750 not £700

[Leakie]

Not wanting to argue

I did not mention Charging orders.

 

The stat demand may be free

but to make some one bankrupt does cost the creditor to take it before the judge,

if granted no guarantee they would recover what is owed,

[Leakie]

That is just nick picking DB

ok £750 to £5000

 

 

Thought you are better than that!!!!!!!

[whitsend]

Yes, i said the same earlier, however they may attend. Do you have grounds to set aside ?

 

The only grounds I have is that they did not send me a bill for a number of years. Which made the sum unmanageable. I put in a defence as they could not give me any copies of bills, just a spreadsheet with dates and numbers on. The judgement went against me as they did not receive my defense or they received it too late.

 

The judgement was for £50, which I could not afford while paying everything else, so I applied for a variation order for £25, not realising that I could not do this with a High Court Writ.

[Bailiff Advice]

The only grounds I have is that they did not send me a bill for a number of years. Which made the sum unmanageable. I put in a defence as they could not give me any copies of bills, just a spreadsheet with dates and numbers on. The judgement went against me as they did not receive my defense or they received it too late.

 

The judgement was for £50, which I could not afford while paying everything else, so I applied for a variation order for £25, not realising that I could not do this with a High Court Writ.

 

You have said that the debt is now £5,110. Accordingly, Dodgeball was correct in that bankruptcy could be an option. Applying to the court to 'vary the order' should resolve this.

 

I think that you will have little grounds to 'set aside' the judgment. Therefore, you need to follow the guidance from Ploddertom and file the N244 to 'Stay the proceedings' AND the N245 to 'Vary' the order.

 

You have said that you have appointment with the court on Friday, have you been asked to take any documents with you ?