Paypal - 'got used as a money mule' - help

[AmyBabee17]

Hello, I have been called several times by a number 02086100150. This is apparently the number PayPal use when they are chasing people for a negative balance. The story behind this is a case of fraud.

 

I have recently believe to have been a victim of fraud where I was told that I would receive a PayPal payout. I found this through a facebook group which is a selling page. The advert said that people could receive money as long as they met the certain criteria. In addition, it said that there would be no fees involved (and to me as a 19 year old this meant minimal risk of losing money). This involved being sent money through PayPal which would be transferred to my bank account and some of this would then be sent to another bank account as what I believed would be fees for this service. I was told to download a programme which would be used to create a meeting where the other person who was helping me to do this, would be able to take control of my screen and do what was needed. I was told to sign into my PayPal account and also my online banking (stupid mistake)...

 

I had £300 added into my PayPal account (from different people) which the person then withdrew to my bank account. From there, they went into my online banking where they typed in the bank account of the person to send the money too. They then withdrew £200 from my bank account which was as expected.

This was supposed to be repeated several times so each time I would keep the £100 remaining.

However, on the next occasion £300 was added into my PayPal account (also from different people) which was then withdrew to my bank account. From there, the person typed in all of the bank account details as before. However, this time they typed in to withdraw £800....this was not what I expected and stopped the meeting instantly so they could not take control of my bank account and PayPal any longer.

 

Several of the different people whose accounts were used to send money to mine (i'm not sure if they had the money fraudulently taken from them or if they were part of the company doing this) have then requested to have their money returned. However, I closed the PayPal account that all of these transactions happened on and now I have PayPal ringing me. I'm assuming they are questioning the negative balance on my account and are wanting the money back....

 

However, as a student I have no regular income and I dont know what to do. If they are chasing for the money then I will be placed even further in my overdraft. I have already been placed into my overdraft from having lost £400 (£600 in total added to my account and £1000 taken from my bank) and now they are chasing me for the £600 added into my PayPal account. This will mean that in total I would have lost £1000 if they get the money back.

 

I have contacted action fraud but they have 28 days to get back to me. The original case of fraud happened several weeks ago. I'm not sure what to do... I don't have the funds to pay the money back and I feel like I have been scammed so bad (p.s. im only 19)

 

Can anyone help???

[Mr.P]

You need to look up "money mule", which is what you have been used as. If someone ever offers you money for doing nothing, then always suspect a sc@m involving criminal activity. One of the common ones is "working" as an ebay lister where you post high value items for sale, take the money, and then someone else supposedly ships the item. Once you have taken your "commission", you are expected to forward the funds on to someone else (either via PayPal or Western Union). The person you forwarded the funds to could well then pass it on to someone else, and so on until the fraudster finally pockets the money. Of course, the original buyer never receives the goods and files a claim through Ebay/PayPal and the one posting the listing has to refund the money.

 

Edit: I see you have already found a thread from a victim of the first stage of this type of fraud...

 

It is quite likely that you were one of the middlemen in this chain.

 

You have already informed Action Fraud and got a reference number from them. Pass this on to PayPal if they contact you again. Two more things you must do:

 

Alert your bank to the fraud and get them to cancel any continuous payment authorities that may be in place with PayPal along with any others you do not recognise.

 

Get your computer checked over thoroughly for any viruses and/or malicious back door programs. I'm betting that this software that you were asked to install had a hidden utility to monitor any online banking activity.

[citizenB]

http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/fraud-az-money-muling

 

 

https://crimestoppers-uk.org/get-involved/our-campaigns/national-campaigns/dont-be-a-mule/

 

 

https://www.lloydsbank.com/help-guidance/security/money-mules.asp

[AmyBabee17]

what do you reckon will happen?

 

have i committed an offence?

 

i still can't believe i fell for it because of seeing it on facebook i thought it may be genuine compared to receiving a dodgy email.

im so gullible its unreal.

i feel so stupid for having done anything and i wish i hadnt now. :(

[ericsbrother]

Ah well,

that makes it different to ordinary money laundering then,

seeing it on facebook.

 

Yes, you have committed an offence but worse than that you have fallen victim to a common fraud by giving your bank account details out to people you dont know .

 

The original money never existed

, the fraudsters control both ends of the chain

and the only loser is the gullible sap in the middle

 

. The bad news is that you will have a marker placed on your credit files

and may have your bank shut down your account and refuse to open another one.

 

You cant continue to ignore paypal or you will be in a worse situation.

However, make sure it is payal you are talking to

and not another member of the fraud gang

by asking for a reference number you can look up via your paypal account.

 

they have ways of doing this, commonmly by using the ref number

 

they initiated by adding a penny payment to your account.

[AmyBabee17]

Ah well,

that makes it different to ordinary money laundering then,

seeing it on facebook.

 

Yes, you have committed an offence but worse than that you have fallen victim to a common fraud by giving your bank account details out to people you dont know .

 

The original money never existed

, the fraudsters control both ends of the chain

and the only loser is the gullible sap in the middle

 

. The bad news is that you will have a marker placed on your credit files

and may have your bank shut down your account and refuse to open another one.

 

You cant continue to ignore paypal or you will be in a worse situation.

However, make sure it is payal you are talking to

and not another member of the fraud gang

by asking for a reference number you can look up via your paypal account.

 

they have ways of doing this, commonmly by using the ref number

 

they initiated by adding a penny payment to your account.

 

Thank you for your help.

 

I have searched up the number in google and apparently it is not paypal from previous people who have had calls from this number before.

I've also shut down the paypal account so theres no way for me to get into the account. This means I can't see whats going on with my account.....

 

I have previously rang paypal about this and all they have said is they cant help.

[dx100uk]

sorry we were lax in not checking the number you posted ourselves

 

 

so its a spoofer and pers id ignore the whole debacle now.

 

 

now are you out of pocket from your bank account at all?

[AmyBabee17]

I am out of pocket at the moment yes from the immediate after effect.

I am currently in my overdraft.

 

 

People also understandly want their money back who have had money taken from their account

and have request money back through paypal.

 

 

I want to pay them back because they dont deserve to loose money like me.

I would prefer for me to be in my overdraft and pay back the other people lost money from my stupid mistake

and being so gullible than to leave them with nothing.

 

I just want everything to be over with and them to have their money back

so I can then get myself out of my overdraft and get on with life as it was before.

 

I have also contacted paypal about this number and they have told me that it is one of their numbers that they use for negative balances and debt collection so I will be onto them tomorrow about sorting out my negative balance.

[renegadeimp]

Paypal wont and cant do anything. Theyll phone you a few times, write a letter, pass you on to a DCA who contact you 3-4 times..... and thats it.

 

You really need to contact actionfraud though as it shows how open to abuse and fraud paypals systems are.

 

Do NOT start calling paypal. get on to action fraud, get a crime number, give paypal the crime reference number in writing, and let the police communicate with them.

 

Paypal do not care. They just want money.

[AmyBabee17]

Paypal wont and cant do anything. Theyll phone you a few times, write a letter, pass you on to a DCA who contact you 3-4 times..... and thats it.

 

You really need to contact actionfraud though as it shows how open to abuse and fraud paypals systems are.

 

Do NOT start calling paypal. get on to action fraud, get a crime number, give paypal the crime reference number in writing, and let the police communicate with them.

 

Paypal do not care. They just want money.

 

I have already contacted action fraud 3 - 4 weeks ago. they were looking into it and gave a crime number. I have not received the calls i was receiving since saturday which was surprising since they usually call most days.

 

my main issue i dont want to make it worse than it is by not paying the money back. if my account is in negative balance does that mean that they have paid the money to the people and they are now chasing me for the money or have they not paid the people and are relying on me to pay??

 

also, what will the debt collection agency do? i have not actually had any letters from paypal or emails regarding the debt collection, it is just from the number that has been calling me that i know about this

[dx100uk]

bugger and all = DCA's

they are NOT BAILIFFS

[AmyBabee17]

bugger and all = DCA's

they are NOT BAILIFFS

 

thank you so much for your help! the past month has been horrendous with constant worry and fear of what may happen as well as regret.

 

what is the worst a debt collection agency can do??? will it just be to collect the money that is negative on my paypal balance??

[dx100uk]

yep that's a ll they can do

 

just remember

they have no legal powers whatsoever.

 

you or I could become a dca tomorrow

 

if someone owes us money

we can take them to court and try to get a CCJ

 

that's ALL a dca can do.

problem is

unless the debt is SOLD TO THEM.

 

only the OWNER can do court.

 

you'll soon get the idea

[AmyBabee17]

yep that's a ll they can do

 

just remember

they have no legal powers whatsoever.

 

you or I could become a dca tomorrow

 

if someone owes us money

we can take them to court and try to get a CCJ

 

that's ALL a dca can do.

problem is

unless the debt is SOLD TO THEM.

 

only the OWNER can do court.

 

you'll soon get the idea

 

Okay thank you. So they could take me to court if paypal wanted to pursue it?

The debt is somewhere betweeen 400 and 600.

Not sure exactly but i think its closer to 400.

Would this be an amount large enough for them to be worth chasing me?

 

The really annoying thing is thay because the paypal account is shut

there is no way for me to see what the active balance is

and whether they have just decided to write off the negative balance on the account.

[dx100uk]

no paypal would need to do it - and they don't so...

 

the most probable outcome is PP will sell the debt on.

 

then you'll get new scary letters.

 

let it run.

 

dx

[king12345]

You're the victim, not the fraudster!

Stop thinking that you have to pay the other victims in the chain out of your own pocket.

You've already lost enough money.

[aburobert]

Paypal do not do court. They either sell the debt on or just close your account.

 

Interestingly I had a company account where a buyer in Spain managed a chargeback for several hundred pounds despite using tracked mail.

 

This took a very long time to arrive which meant Paypal refunded the buyer and simply ignored me when I could prove tracking.

 

Anyway the account was and is in a significant minus balance.

 

First came a barrage of phone calls from Paypal which I totally ignored.

Then a series of debt collector letters indicating the possibility of various dire consequences - then blissful silence.

 

By complete chance I managed to confront the Spanish buyer at a big collector bourse in London.

 

To avoid embarrassment he agreed to repay the money to the Paypal account and I watched him as he attempted to do this

- he received a message stating the account could not receive funds!

So Paypal shot themselves in the foot.

 

I have now written off this account and use another one for my business.

The account still exists and as long as the account cannot accept funds it will remain in limbo with a substantial minus balance.

 

The Spaniard actually paid me the money in Euros which are sitting in an envelope ready to pay to Paypal should the account ever be able to accept funds

- I will give it a couple of years and if no joy have a good dinner and night out at Paypal's expense!

[jacktheskipper]

Well I suppose does show the inherent problems with paypal.. a horrible system.

 

Credit cards are better as they will pay the buyer their money back if $cammed.

Ebay and paypal seemingly don't want this for some reason

and force you to use paypal which I think may actually be illegal.

Moving on...

 

The first thing is change your phone number so that they can't hassle you via that.

I'm wondering also whether you ought to report the whole affair to the local plod,..

. not that they will do anything but at least it is on record that you have been $cammed.

 

Still you imply it has put you out over your own bank account ...

and you know they will add interest so we're going have to come up with a plan to deal with that too.

Edited July 27, 2016 by jacktheskipper
would not print the word scammed

[renegadeimp]

The first thing is change your phone number so that they can't hassle you via that.

 

Why on earth would you even consider that?

[jacktheskipper]

I had a neighbour a few years that got in a similar pickle, he was bombarded with calls from banks and creditors. All starting from a relatively minor amount which compounded with their various charges and interest fees etc.

 

 

Anyway getting rid of the phone... matter of fact BT cut him off.. but it was a relief to him not to nagged on a daily basis by these people. And in the end it was a successful outcome.

[renegadeimp]

But theres no need to change phone numbers. there is case law that supports anyone harassed by creditors by phone. Your neighbor had NO choice regarding the phone in that situation.

[aburobert]

There is absolutely no need to change telephone numbers or get rid of the telephone.

 

You are under no obligation to speak to anyone who rings you. If it is Paypal or its representatives either put the phone down on them or put the receiver down and have a cup of tea or whatever until they cut the connection.

 

OK you will be bombarded with calls at first but they will eventually taper off and they will leave you alone when they realise they are getting nowhere.

 

You will only need to take any action if a County Court claim form drops through your letter box. The likelihood of this happening is so remote you probably stand a better chance of winning the lottery then them taking such action.

[AmyBabee17]

Well I suppose does show the inherent problems with paypal.. a horrible system.

 

Credit cards are better as they will pay the buyer their money back if $cammed.

Ebay and paypal seemingly don't want this for some reason

and force you to use paypal which I think may actually be illegal.

Moving on...

 

The first thing is change your phone number so that they can't hassle you via that.

I'm wondering also whether you ought to report the whole affair to the local plod,..

. not that they will do anything but at least it is on record that you have been $cammed.

 

Still you imply it has put you out over your own bank account ...

and you know they will add interest so we're going have to come up with a plan to deal with that too.

 

thank you very much. luckily enough i am a uni student and have an interest free bank account that the money had been taken from. therefore, i will not get any overdraft charges on the account which is lucky.

[AmyBabee17]

There is absolutely no need to change telephone numbers or get rid of the telephone.

 

You are under no obligation to speak to anyone who rings you. If it is Paypal or its representatives either put the phone down on them or put the receiver down and have a cup of tea or whatever until they cut the connection.

 

OK you will be bombarded with calls at first but they will eventually taper off and they will leave you alone when they realise they are getting nowhere.

 

You will only need to take any action if a County Court claim form drops through your letter box. The likelihood of this happening is so remote you probably stand a better chance of winning the lottery then them taking such action.

 

if this happens then would they just request the money to be paid and if not then i would have to go to court to decide whether the money gets paid?

 

 

if it comes to this, then i would probably just pay it to get them off my back as its so much hassle and stress that i would prefer to deal without.

 

 

also as a uni student the concept of money for me is not yet there as it usually just comes and goes anyway.

thanks so much for your help though.

 

Paypal have stopped calling on the number that they were using.

hoping this doesnt mean that they're onto the DCA's now about getting it.

surprised i have not received a letter in the post from paypal tbh.

 

also, as i dont live at home during term time im worried about letters being sent to my house from late september

and obviously i wont receive them if im not here.

[AmyBabee17]

Paypal do not do court. They either sell the debt on or just close your account.

 

Interestingly I had a company account where a buyer in Spain managed a chargeback for several hundred pounds despite using tracked mail.

 

This took a very long time to arrive which meant Paypal refunded the buyer and simply ignored me when I could prove tracking.

 

Anyway the account was and is in a significant minus balance.

 

First came a barrage of phone calls from Paypal which I totally ignored.

Then a series of debt collector letters indicating the possibility of various dire consequences - then blissful silence.

 

By complete chance I managed to confront the Spanish buyer at a big collector bourse in London.

 

To avoid embarrassment he agreed to repay the money to the Paypal account and I watched him as he attempted to do this

- he received a message stating the account could not receive funds!

So Paypal shot themselves in the foot.

 

I have now written off this account and use another one for my business.

The account still exists and as long as the account cannot accept funds it will remain in limbo with a substantial minus balance.

 

The Spaniard actually paid me the money in Euros which are sitting in an envelope ready to pay to Paypal should the account ever be able to accept funds

- I will give it a couple of years and if no joy have a good dinner and night out at Paypal's expense!

 

did you get calls from the 0208 number they use for debt collection?

also, how many letters would you say you received from the debt collector and how long ago was all of this?