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Cabot 60 day extension to order for documents***Claim Discontinued***

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Hi guys, so it's been quite a while since I posted due to I tend not to get into debt anymore, but I am currently looking at an N244 order that Cabots solicitors have filed to extend the length of time required to file documents and an adjournment to be granted so they can get the required documents.

 

In my original defence I stated if they could demonstrate I owed the debt via the usual methods then I will accept the debt belongs to me, but in a longer way than this obviously.

 

What order are you asking the court to make and why?

 

That the court use its case management powers to:

1) Under CPR 3.1(2)(a) and in accordance with the overriding objective to grant a 60 day extension to the order dated 31 May 2016 to allow the claimant further time to send to the other party and court copies of all documents on which it intends to rely; and

 

2) An adjournment be granted under CPR 3.1 (2) (b) to the hearing listed for 19 August

 

 

What evidence will you be relying on, in support of your application?

 

 

Pursuant to the order dated May 2016 each party is currently required to deliver to the court and other parties, copies of all documentation upon which that party intends to rely by 4th July 2016.

 

 

The claimant has requested additional documentation from the original vendor but these documents have not yet been received.

 

 

The claimant is therefore unable to meet the deadline of the court, and requests that an extension of 60 days be granted under CPR 3.1(2)(a) in accordance with the overriding objective in order to assist the parties in keeping the costs in this matter as proportionate as possible.

 

The claimant also requests a corresponding adjournment to the hearing listed for ***** under CPR 3.1(2)(2) and in accordance and in accordance with the overriding objective.

 

 

Such an order should allow the claimant to provide the documents to the defendant,

which will encourage further exploration of alternative dispute resolution options,

will prevent any prejudice arising to other court users by wasting the court's time,

and ensure that a just and fair outcome for both parties can be reached.

 

 

They tried to have the application dealt without a hearing

but it is in my local court on Tuesday on a telephone hearing with me having to appear in person (if i wish to defend)

 

 

I've not had to deal with anything like this for a few years so really just need help filling in the blanks I can't remember etc.

 

I'll be stating how the company has been harassing me for around a year over the alleged debt and all i've asked of them is proof that I owe the debt,

 

 

as they have had to request more time it is quite obvious that they have never attempted to provide any kind of proof or made any attempt to keep the case out of court or as they put "encourage further exploration of alternative dispute resolution options"

 

 

As stated in my original defence

I believe the claimant is simply after free money and this appears to be the case as any professional company and solicitor should have had all the sufficient proof they needed before putting such a case forward and demonstrates to me as an individual a willingness to attempt to abuse a system in order to scare individuals into paying unsubstantiated debts.

 

 

With regards to preventing any prejudice and ensure a fair outcome for both parties,

it occurs to me that there would not be any prejudice as the claimant has failed to supply any kind of proof so wouldn't be entitled to seek a CCJ regardless.

 

 

Assuming the claimant (A debt recovery company) has undertaken this procedure countless times,

then asking for an extension is in itself a waste of courts time for a company that should thoroughly know about court procedure.

 

 

This company has had ample time to demonstrate I owe the alleged debt even before attempting to claim it through court they or they're solicitors would have been aware that such proof would be required in court and if they didn't they would have known when filing the court papers therefore i feel the claimant should not be granted a 60 day adjournment.

 

This is just something i quickly (or an hour) typing and will probably make edits to it before going to court,

any input would be great,

 

 

also isn't there a thing where it is unlawful to take someone to court over an alleged debt if you can't demonstrate they owe the debt because it's an unenforceable debt?

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Do you have to agree to an extension... can you refuse it if they have not met the deadline for producing documents? They are not allowed an unlimited amount of time, surely? TB

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No, the court has to agree to it, I've never seen an order of this kind but looks like they can apply for an extension of 60 days to produce documents to the court, The deadline to produce documents was 4th July and they filed nothing

 

Just looking at what it is they're referring to:

 

Case management – unrepresented parties

 

3.1A

(1) This rule applies in any proceedings where at least one party is unrepresented.

(2) When the court is exercising any powers of case management, it must have regard to the fact that at least one party is unrepresented.

(3) Both the parties and the court must, when drafting case management directions in the multi-track and fast track, take as their starting point any relevant standard directions which can be found online at www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil and adapt them as appropriate to the circumstances of the case.

(4) The court must adopt such procedure at any hearing as it considers appropriate to further the overriding objective.

(5) At any hearing where the court is taking evidence this may include—

(a) ascertaining from an unrepresented party the matters about which the witness may be able to give evidence or on which the witness ought to be cross-examined; and

(b) putting, or causing to be put, to the witness such questions as may appear to the court to be proper.

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This is where you should be looking unicorn......and basing your objection on.

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part03#3.8.

 

Read 3.8

 

Andy


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Thank you Andy,

This is stating that a time extension may be granted to a rule, practice or court order for up to 28 days as long as it does not put at risk a hearing date??

 

 

I could be wrong but since the date to provide documents it would also be asking for a retrospective agreement rather than a prior agreement?

 

So I would be saying something along the lines of;

 

Under CPR3.8(4) it is stated that such a time extension may only be granted by prior written agreement for up to a maximum of 28 days provided that such an extension does not put at risk any hearing date. This makes a request for an extension to the order by 60 days an unlawful request because

 

A) A 60 day time extension exceeds the maximum 28 day extension the court allows

B) Granting such an extension would mean the hearing date would have to be moved

 

Requesting and granting an adjournment would be unlawful in respect that by it's very intention it would be putting at risk the hearing set for *******

 

(This part i'm not so sure applies since 3.1(a) states failed to comply) Furthermore an extension of any kind may only be granted with prior court agreement, since the deadline to deliver documents has passed then the claimant is requesting retrospective permission from the courts as opposed to prior written consent

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They are trying to get around the court directions..and extend the times stated within the directions.....therefore including the 33 days from when the claim was issued plus the time through allocation and now requesting a further 60 days is totally unreasonable on you the defendant.

 

Perhaps they should have their paperwork in order before issuing a claim and as directions have been issued you really should be requested that sanctions be imposed...not that they should be allowed further time.

 

It must be a substantive amount they are claiming to go to all this trouble and make application?

 

Andy


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You would think it would be a substantial amount,

but it now sits at around £800, If i remember correctly it was in the region of £600 before court costs and fees

 

OK, so i understand that they can ask for extra time even after the date has passed.

I am no professional in law and have more often than not heard nothing back from old debts by simply using the guides on here.

 

 

I understand the concept of sanctioning but have no idea on sanctioning in court or what i should be requesting to be imposed??

 

 

Would I just be stating since the claimant has been so negligent in following simple court directions or having the proof they are basing their allegation on when filing such a claim, they should if anything have sanctions imposed rather than be allowed an extra 60 days on top of the 84 days from when i defended my claim, which would be unreasonable on me as a defendant?

 

Since I also had to get time off work would it be unrealistic to request loss of earning etc?

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A court will only allow so much leniency to either party..but not an extra 60 days once directions have been issued...Judges do not like their Directions being questioned or delayed..I think the court will not allow this application..and if they do I would be rather shocked.

 

Object to the application..again quoting CPR 3 and insist at the least that sanctions be imposed or even that the claim be struck out.

 

And yes request costs for attending and dealing with this application (£90 for time of work and further costs in dealing with the application in your time.)


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I presume that as it's reached this stage then the claimant/sols must have acknowledged your defence and indicated to the court that they wish to proceed with their claim.

 

 

I would raise the point that If they didn't have the paperwork in order then they shouldn't have issued a claim when they did

- And notwithstanding that they had the further option of allowing the claim to become stayed while they got their act together but instead pressed ahead with their claim in the knowledge they had nothing to substantiate it.

 

 

Get across that they're taking the michael out of the court system, cpr and the judge to even make such an application when they should have had this sorted BEFORE even issuing a claim.

 

If the judge does allow them the time then ask that should they fail to comply with the judge's order then the claim stands struck out with judgment for defendant without further order. And costs.

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What would "further costs in dealing with the application in your time" equate to?

I understand I can ask for £90 for loss of earnings per day without further proof of earning and if i remember correctly 45P per mile for fuel costs. What would be reasonable to ask for and what cost??

 

Panther,

yes I have a letter I kept from the solicitors that says

"Further to our reply to your defence sent on 11 April 2016"

so they can't deny they never had anything.

 

 

when i filed my defence I said i've never been sent any kind of proof I owe the debt and believe the claimant is simply after some free money.

 

 

In response they sent me a two page letter telling me to pay them because they have all this proof and we're going to get me sent to prison or whatever threats they issued

 

 

i replied with a peter griffin who the hell cares meme, it amused me greatly but i don't think they saw the funny side of it.

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Whats funny is cabot are so inept and openly flout regulation and law, they simply cant admit theyre wrong. THey will do this all the way to the end, then say " we're withdrawing for business reasons". They rarely ever hold paperwork for a debt and iirc rarely ever buy legit debts.


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Yes i've noticed a lot from Cabot on the forums haha

 

OK I have the following, would appreciate opinions/stuff i'm doing wrong/help with costs

 

In response to the order requested by Wright Hassall I would like to point out that the claimant has been harassing me for the alleged debt for over one year and even though I have requested proof that I owe the alleged debt this has never been disclosed to myself. This demonstrates a clear lack of effort in keeping this matter out of court.

 

My defence was filed and acknowledged on 11 April 2016 which has allowed the claimant a total of 84 days to gather any documents that they needed to support this case.

 

Under CPR3.8(4) it is stated that such a time extension may only be granted by prior written agreement for up to a maximum of 28 days provided that such an extension does not put at risk any hearing date. This makes a request for an extension to the order by 60 days an unlawful request because..

 

A) A 60 day time extension exceeds the maximum 28 day extension the court allows

B) Granting such an extension would mean the hearing date would have to be moved

 

I find it completely unfair as a defendant that the court would even consider such an order and ask for an extension let alone an extension of 2 months would consider that the claimant and solicitor is making a mockery of the court system,CPR, and the judge to make such an application when they should have had such documents before even issuing a claim.

 

I feel that attempting to make use of one directive which directly violates another court direction even though they are both contained within the same 'part 3 of The court's case management powers' of the' civil Rules and practice directions' as well as filing such a claim and attempting to follow through with it, with nothing to substantiate the it, is such a ridiculous request that i feel sanctions be imposed or the case be struck out.

 

The court makes clear that evidence that you rely on in court would be requested and attempting to use a court order because you simply "forgot" you needed documents when filing a claim is unacceptable for a company that has legal representation and a sole purpose of collecting debts.

 

I feel an order should have not even filed for such basic negligence and wish to request costs for the following:

 

£90 for time I have had to take of work

£21 for travel expenses based on 45P per mile

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Just a few tweaks...now pop that into a drafted witness statement and serve it on the court/claimant..it should be submitted not less than 7 days ...normally.


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thanks, um. I'm in court on Tuesday?? I thought i would be able to attend as requested and give a defence? The notice of hearing application was only sent out on the 7th so by the time it got to me i'm pretty sure I couldn't have gotten it to the court or claimant before 7 days

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Yes do attend...email it to the court and claimant today


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OK, Do we have a template to hand? I can find one online but can't see one on the forum?

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Just add the headers Claimant v Defendant Case Number xxxxx Court and add a statement of truth and date.

 

Witness statement of Mr xxxxxxxxxx in the application of the claimant dated xxxxxxx


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OK awesome!

 

I've just sent an email to both and will send a paper copy to the court special delivery now

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OK all sent, guaranteed delivery before 1PM Monday

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Well done.


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OK i've just got back from court

 

The judge refused to allow them to move the hearing, he allowed them 7 days to get the documents and awarded me £50 because I never took a letter from my employer saying i'd lose wages??

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As expected then...obviously they wont comply so strike out next.

 

With regards to the loss of wages....who does he think he is...headmaster.:wink:

 

Still its £50 coming from Cabot...so when this claim is struck out they will have lost the court fee the application fee and I assume they had representation today so another £500..they will wish they never issued this claim..as their profit has just gone down the pan:lol:

 

Post up the next General Order when you recieve it and then you can ask them to strike out.

 

Well done.

 

Andy


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They had a telephone hearing so their solicitor represented,

 

 

he read my defence and pretty much begged the judge for the order

this was even after not even ringing through until an hour late haha.

 

I assume since they have seven days they highly unlikely to have any documentation sent through unless they have it to hand immediately??

 

Thanks for the help. I shall keep updated regarding the court progress:smile:

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How much is this debt for unicorn ?

 

if you dont mind...please round the amount up ..not exact


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Honestly I literally have no paperwork on how much the debt was but from memory rounded it was £650 and £800 with court fees and solicitor fees

 

Oh sorry i'm lying. I just logged into my credit record for you and their balance is £909 according to my accounts! I assume Cabot have added some fees onto this for attempted recovery of the debt

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