Notice required to move as suitable alternative accommodation available

[Rexroth]

So yesterday I met with a representative of the housing association. She was freindly but she is not my friend. We talked for an hour and a half and what is relevant is that when I asked why they had served a notice when previously they had said that they could not insist on my moving she hesitated and then said "I suppose we must have got new legal advice." which sounded to me that she either did not know or was lying.

 

I said that I was prepared to move if I had to but would want something suitable for me as that new home would at 72 likely be my last one. I pointed out that I would be minded to argue in court if necessary as this was so important to me.

 

I said that I might be prepared to move even if they were not in a position legally to insist that I did as long as they paid me reasonable compensation. "Did I have an amount in mind?" she asked. "No I replied. It would be the going rate for winkling an old man from his home of 24 years. I don't know what that would be, do you?"

 

She was clearly shocked at this and started to speak and then stopped. I waited quietly in the silence saying nothing. They are clearly in denial as to what they are seeking to do.

 

I suggested that they withdrew the notice and she will enquire.

 

They have two flats available, one is a basement which I don't want and the other in an upmarket expensive area which would be idea for a worker but not for me.

 

Overall I think they are prepared to negotiate. They are very concerned that their behaviour is not made public.

[45002]

Don't agree or discuss anything more with HA until you meet with a Solicitor and discussed all your options ...

[Rexroth]

For information the relevant part of my Tenancy agreement is:

 

QUOTE

 

Security of Tenure (2) The Tenant has security of tenure as an assured tenant so long as he/she occupies the Premises as his/her only or principal home. The Association can only end the Tenancy by obtaining a court order for possession of the Premises on one of the grounds listed in Schedule 2 of the Housing Act 1988. The Association agrees that it will not give less than four weeks' notice in writing of its intention to seek a possession order. The Association will only use the following grounds to obtain an order for possession -

 

(vi) suitable alternative accommodation is available to the Tenant, provided that in addition the Association can show. (Groudn 9)

 

(a) that vacant possession is necessary to carry out work to the Premises.

 

END QUOTE

 

Now the Landlords have repeatedly stated that they want to sell the property not to carry out works on it. So I don't see how this would apply but now I shall ask a solicitor as what looks obvious to me as a layman might not be correct in law.

 

Again thank you everyone who has helped me with this. I am very grateful. Now I'm going to take the weekend off and get on with other things.

[Rexroth]

Thanks everyone and the update following solicitors advice is to write to Landlords quoting the above and ask them to explain why they are seeking to act in breach of it.

 

And don't panic if they are not trying it on they need to explain what they are up to.

 

Will keep updating and the reason for the delay in this update was a firm of sleeping solicitors whom I shall not be using.

 

Thanks for support.

[Rexroth]

An update, there is a property which the Housing Association (HA) considers suitable and which I don't. It is not yet available (and consequently was not available until after the expiration of the notice) but I have seen the outside and though it is in a reasonable area it is not where I want to live. It is also much more expensive. My friend here who occupies another flat has had a letter from the HA stating that they are not going to issue him with a notice but want to have a chat with him about his future. They have picked on me as I am the difficult one being a former advice worker. Advice from my solicitor is to go and see that flat if I wish and to wait until any further notice arrives. The HA are not happy with me as I have suggested that one of their employees is guilty of fraud. I shall proceed with caution.

 

Thank you for your concern and help. I'll keep you informed as to progress.

[stu007]

Hi Rexroth

 

Thank you for the update, appreciated.

 

Make sure and let your Local Councillor and MP know what the HA are doing, also have a wee look at this link it's Ageuk: http://www.ageuk.org.uk/ (have a wee chat with them and see what they say).

 

Now as for the Housing association due to your age I think it is important that you need to specifically ask them in writing for a copy of their 'Equality Policy'.

 

Something I don't see mentioned is yes the HA are letting you look at this other property but no mention of compensation to get you to that property i.e. removal costs etc

[Rexroth]

Thank you for your post and to reply to the pisnt you make.

 

The Local Councillor knows and there are other issues involving the property and the (in)actions of the Local Authority. I have not been in contact with my MP yet.

 

I had contacted Age UK for a chat as you helpfully suggest some time ago but they would not offer me an appointment saying that I should see a solicitor. This decision was not made by a housing adviser and I might well go back to them. When I had problems in the past they were good going through everything I had done and confirming I had got it right.

 

I have got the Equalities Policy somewhere and the HA has many policies which regrettably it tends not to follow. (Laws alone cannot carry themselves into practice. Meng Tzu 3rd C BCE) which is the problem. The HA won't follow their complaint's procedure and the Housing Ombudsman's Service is one of the most useless and biased Ombudsmans services I have encountered. The HA is very hands off in their approach so as I am old then obviously I must need old people's accommodation.

 

As regards removal and resettlement costs there is a fixed figure of £5,300 which they expect me to grab. I am more concerned with where I spend what is likely to be the rest of my life until and unless I become inform and need looking after in a home.

 

Finally there is the fact that living at the new property would increase my costs by approximately 50%. My present rent includes a proportion of council tax, water charge, gas and electricity whereas in the new property I would pay a basic rent and pay the other costs myself. The HA's attitude is that this nothing to do with them. My attitude is that is deciding whether the accommodation offered is reasonably similar the whole cost of living there should be taken into account.

 

I am not eligible for benefits (honest I'm not) and don't want to spend up my capital so that I need to rely on benefits. I can afford to live in my present accommodation but would need to spend capital to live in the proposed new accommodation.

 

So on it goes I shall keep posting with updates.

[Rexroth]

For some reason, I can't edit this. I wanted to correct some spelling mistakes. When I click on edit I am left with a blank screen.

[Rexroth]

A further update. HA demanded that I go to visit a property. Solicitor acting for me has written pointing out that under the terms of my tenancy agreement HA cannot force me to move and also lists various reasons why the proposed new property is unsuitable. Will keep people informed. Thank you for an excellent site.

[Rexroth]

And this evening a letter from the HA wanting a meeting and pointing out their problems. I rather suspect that in view of my solicitor's letter they know they have little chance of insisting I move and this is another try on. In view of previous advice, for which I thank people, I shall not be contacting them nor meeting with them. It was they who started a legal process by issuing the notice and a legal process is what they now have.

[45002]

Hello Rexroth

 

Personal I think, If the HA keeping on contacting you may have grounds to sue them for Harassment !

 

Good luck ...

[Rexroth]

Thank you for your advice and help which I much appreciate. The updated situation is that I have spent two expensive hours with a solicitor and it seems that there are situations where a court can vary the terms of a tenancy agreement. This was news to me and thank you for the suggestion that I saw a solicitor. I have been to see the new flat which is offered, it is dreadful and much more expensive. My solictor is happy for me to meet with the HA to informally discuss matters and I had sought such a meeting. The HA came back saying that they wanted both sets of solcitors to be present which at this stage is absurd.

 

So there we are as I contemplate Christmas and a viscious landlord who really should know better.

[45002]

Thank you for your advice and help which I much appreciate. The updated situation is that I have spent two expensive hours with a solicitor and it seems that there are situations where a court can vary the terms of a tenancy agreement. This was news to me and thank you for the suggestion that I saw a solicitor. I have been to see the new flat which is offered, it is dreadful and much more expensive. My solictor is happy for me to meet with the HA to informally discuss matters and I had sought such a meeting. The HA came back saying that they wanted both sets of solicitors to be present which at this stage is absurd.

 

So there we are as I contemplate Christmas and a viscious landlord who really should know better.

 

Get your solicitor to write to the HA and say No thank I'm happy where I am and leave it at that.

 

Let the HA make the moves and not you....

 

Stop dragging this out....

[Rexroth]

Thank you, almost exactly the advice I received from my solicitor except that he advised simply to wait for the HA to act and to save me the cost of a letter. On reflection I shall take your and his advice and wait. The "stop dragging this out..." is, if I might say so, very perceptive of my behaviour in this and though I don't like hearing it I do hear it.

[Rexroth]

Update on everything.

 

On 4 December I became ill with what turned out to be cancer for which I have had an operation to remove a growth and for which I expect to start chemotherapy for a minimun of nine weeks followed by radiotherapy for some more weeks.

They do not know if it will work.

 

In addition I collapsed several times and spent time in hospital which they thought the cancer might have spread to my brain.

 

It seems it had not but they want to do another advanced scan to make sure.

 

I also have a bowel disorder which has quietened down for the moment.

 

My PTSD recurred and I felt and feel that I have had enough.

 

I contacted the HA and asked them not to start proceeding while I was ill.

They did not reply but started proceedings for which I received the papers on a Saturday before I was due to go into hospital for an operation on the Monday.

 

I sent the papers to my solicitor and asked him to deal with it as I was too ill.

He didn't for two weeks and then advised that I could produce a defence which "will be easy" and spend 5-8K in court and not necessarily win and it would be nearly a thousand to ask for the matter to be delayed until I was better and to do so I would need to file a defense.

 

I got my papers back and went to see the HA and they agreed to postpone the Hearing and I agreed to move

- where when and how much compensation was to be negotiated.

 

Then I went to the press.

Can I post the link?

 

I've had enough and need all my energy to focus on getting well again.

[dx100uk]

Yes but is this a problem for you to be identified mind?

[Rexroth]

Thank you the truth is I don't know and in my emotional state at the moment I think I'll not post the link.

[stu007]

Hi Rexroth

 

Sorry to hear of that diagnosis in Dec and can understand having to still to deal with this issue is just something you don't need to be dealing with at the moment.

 

1. Do you have it in writing what they agreed with postponing the proceeding & compensation to be negotiated?

 

2. Is your Solicitor still dealing with this for you?

 

I can understand you don't need this at the moment and I hope you don't mind but it may also be worth having a wee chat with Macmillan and explaining what your going through with the HA.

https://www.macmillan.org.uk/

 

Anyway you know we are here even if you just want to have a wee rant

[silverfox1961]

Hi

Yes you can post a link to the news story so long as you don't mind being identified.

 

I have followed this thread since the beginning but not posted as I wouldn't know what is what however, with the conditions you have to live with, have you thought about sheltered housing.

 

Many people confuse sheltered housing as a residential care home. This is not true. I live in sheltered housing. I have my own front door, have total control of what I do and where I go and no interference from the warden aside from a daily visit to ensure I am well (not weekends/bank holidays) and when she is not on duty, I have a call system to call for help if needed. It is just like living in a one bed flat with extras. Perhaps your HA can offer some help there?

 

Some sheltered housing schemes have communal heating and electric where you pay a fixed weekly sum in your rent although an EU directive has started to take effect to ensure that people pay for what they use rather than a collective sum. I am in a transitional period where I am being moved from communal services to individual services where I will be responsible for all my utility costs (heating/lighting/electricity. hot water)

I won't be moving again, that's for sure.

[Rexroth]

Thank you friends. After this I'm not sure when I shall be posting again as I want to focus on treatment. To answer questions and respond to advice.

 

I have it in writing that they agreed to postpone the hearing date and more importantly their solicitor wrote to the Court who have writen to me and have now set a new date of 26 April.

 

The HA offered compensation to take account of the increased expenses of living at the new flat.

 

An accountant advised that this needed to be calculated as a reverse annuity

i.e. what capital sum would give me a net income equivalent to the increase in living expenses and this also would need to be inflation linked.

 

Also I would be looking for compensation for agreeing for them to break a term of my lease, the standard moving fee for HA tenants without any deductions, and damages for breaches of the terms of my current lease and a few other bits. I have agreed to move but only to a place which is suitable.

 

No the solicitor is not acting for me and in view of the behaviour of the Housing Association it is as well. The ineffiency of the HA would give me very high legal costs.

 

Thank you for suggestion of Macmillian. I was already in touch and they have been magnificent.

 

I have almost completed my defence. and will remove the words "lying toads" before sending it.

 

I shall need more advice on court procedure including how we exchange evidence before the case and how I summons witnesses etc,

 

I have represented clients before many tribunals and provided financial evidence to defend repossession proceeding in the, very long ago, I am quite sure that it will not get to court but unless I take action to defend the case it will.

 

Most importantly I need to be able to postpone matters until I am well enough to attend court.

 

And thanks for the opportunity for a wee rant of which there will be mony to come.

 

Thanks for the suggestion of sheltered housing.

People have suggested this before and this is the first time I have not had a strong emotional reaction of fury which probably means that I am slowly coming to terms with reality which is not how I would like it to be.

 

The Housing Association did suggest residential accommodation (and I do know the difference as my grandmother was in both) when I turned 65.

The HA is not good at dealing with real people only figures.

 

At the time I was travelling to Africa and trekking through jungles and up mountains and was very independent.

 

At the moment I need more than sheltered accommodation but so much depends on the outcome of treatment and this might take up to six months.

 

It would be sensible to leave things and decisions until then but the HA is not inclined to do so.

I must move to another flat and perhaps move on again from there.

 

If I am well enough I want to retain my independance and if not then I am thinking of moving abroad where I could enjoy a higher standard of living and care at a much lower price.

I'm now 72and nearly 73.

 

I'm glad you are happy with your accommodation and wish you well.

[Rexroth]

Another update and I feel today the world has gone crazy.

 

 

As the HA and I had not reached an agreement as to when I would move and how much they would pay me, I filed a defence at the court for the five minute hearing last Wednesday.

 

 

I also arranged for my consultant to send a letter to the court saying that I was unable to attend.

I am not sure she did.

 

 

The HA emailed me to say that it would be a directions hearing which would have been nice to know.

 

 

Directions arrive this morning and I have to file a defence.

I don't trust the court administration and I see a solicitor on Friday to sort out what to do.

 

 

The HA wanted me to move in mid May despite being under notice that I am ill and immunosuppressed I could deal with the legal side but not the legal administration.

 

Treatment goes well and I was to have my last chemotherapy tomorrow

but am postponing it so that I'll be in a fit state to see the solicitor on Friday.

 

 

Afterwards I start radiotherapy and after that we see if it has worked.

I remind myself that I am very fortunate to be near a first class hospital and am receiving excellent treatment.

 

I have been living with cancer now for five months and with the threat of having to move home for a little longer. I would like my life back.

 

Finally the newspaper article

http://www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/dartmouth-park-cancer-sufferer-72-ordered-to-leave-home-of-24-years-because-he-is-delaying-sale-1-4902439

 

 

it is a bit old now but will be updated when I am a bit better.

[silverfox1961]

Hi again,

I truly hope that the treatment you are getting has worked. Keeping my fingers crossed.

 

As for the statement by the HA. Sorry, that is laughable. Are they that desperate for funds that they have to sell one property?

 

Have the Council been contacted to see if they can help? You are a vulnerable adult and as such, the councils Adult Social Services may be able to offer a suitable solution. I know that the area you live in, the costs of homes will be high but after looking at the article, you have sufficient need for sheltered housing and while that may not be your first choice, you can still live an independant life as well as having the support from the (usually) daily visit from a warden and have the alarm call system available to you.

 

I think I have said it before. Don't confuse sheltered with residential.

[Rexroth]

Thanks for good advice and support.

 

What has happened is that last Wednesday 3 May I had an order from the court saying that I had not filed a defence and that I must provide one by next week.

They also appear not to have heard from my consultant.

 

I had had enough and cancelled my cancer treatment and went to see a solicitor yesterday, Friday.

 

He is excellent and expensive but I can now relax and get on with my treatment.

The fact that I was stopping treatment to attend to the legal matters was a danger signal to me.

 

In the discussion,

I realised that I had gradually conceded various points to the HA who had conceded nothing to me.

 

My solicitor considers the HA conduct to be outrageous but that it not what the court is deciding.

 

He will look after the case and I can concentrate on getting better.

This morning after a night's sleep I feel exhausted but relieved.

 

The HA might well be so desperate for funds that they need to sell the property.

It would give them in excess of 2 million.

 

They might have misled the HCA which body regulates HAs but complaining about that can wait.

 

Essentially the CEO of the HA can use the HA funds for legal action which would have been avoided had she behaved properly. The situation arises because of her actions, not mine.

 

Finally, and I don't want to say it, the solicitor did ask if I had contacted the Council and if I had considered sheltered accommodation. I am going to have a few days of peace and quiet before deciding what to do about it.

 

Again thank you for good advice. I really appreciate it.

[Rexroth]

Brief update.

my solicitor emailed me a copy of the defence this morning and it is fine.

 

He is attaching a copy of my defence and sending both to the Court and to the other side's solicitor.

 

He assures me both will receive them.

 

Now I can relax about this aspect of my life.

 

So I shall concentrate on getting well again and getting my life back.

 

Thank you everyone.