link financial and BC debt via Stepchange

[firstship]

Hi..

 

.have received a reply from Barclaycard,

 

they have sent a copy of Barclaycard conditions Leaflet,

NO signature in fact NOTHING.

their letter states sorry for delay,

and goes on

"The information we must provide to you under the terms of Section78 is prescribed by the Consumer Credit Act 1974

and by the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notice and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983.

 

.This completes our obligation to you under section 78 of the CSA 1974.

 

As I see it they have not complied with my original request for a signed copy of the original agreement

 

,I have also written to them stating they are in default..

 

..what do you make of the letter.

 

..what is the next step please...

 

...Firstship

[42man]

So they haven't even sent an 'application' form either ? just a copy of their current terms and conditions ?

 

Thank you for your response to my request under the Consumer Credit Act section 78.

 

I am pleased to see that you confirm this as a true copy of the original agreement executed by yourselves on the XXXXX.

 

As you must realise this agreement does not conform to sections 60(1) and 61(1) of the Consumer credit Act 1974 and would therefore only be enforceable by a court under s65. However, the absence of any signature means that a court would be prevented from enforcing it under s127(3)"

 

You had until (date here) to provide me with the true copy I requested. After that date you entered into default of my request and I am therefore advising that the matter is now in dispute . Whilst the matter is in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, make any further charges to the account or pass the account to anybody else.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter a statutory notice under Section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies including any defaults. Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’, you must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you fail to respond within 21 days, I will expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

A couple of things you have to bear in mind here is that it could depend on how a judge sees this, and claiming back charges whilst not having an agreement could possibly be seen as unjust enrichment....also it is no longer an offence not to provide your agreement after the additional 30 days, this was scrapped. They just remain in default of your request if they haven't supplied it AFTER the 12+2 working days

[firstship]

THANKS 42man...............your reply is very helpful and I will use your draft to Barclaycard,good point not to claim charges,without an agreement as this is an admission of an agreement in existance,not thought of this at all.THANKYOU..........firstship..will keep you in the picture as replys come in.............

[MARTIN3030]

I will move your post into the BC forum.Feel free to continue to ask for help should you need it.

[firstship]

42man.......

Barclaycard after I wrote to them a yet again asking for a copy of the signed agreement

(they are really slow in responding)

 

they have sent me another current terms and conditions photo copy sheet stating that is all they have to do under section78 of the CCA.

 

I have read the CCA78 and |I must admit I find it vague about supplying a signed copy of the original agreement.

 

This is perhaps why a number of threads along with advise from your goodself

 

seem to feel SAR a better bet to obtain the signed agreement,

 

or am i wrong in assuming this,

 

do you feel I should tell BC they have not read the act correctly

 

and supply what is requested and they are still in default....

..any thoughts.

...CHEERS......

...Firstship

[the_shadow]

Barclaycard to my knowledge dont tend to send the copies of agreements in the SAR responses either I'm afraid.

 

S.

[slick132]

Hi Firstship,

 

I assume you will post the Sainsbury agreement on another thread so it can be properly checked if you're at all unsure as to it's validity. Don't do it on this thread.

 

BC will only respond to a CCA request with a blank set of T&C's.

 

Send a SAR if you need the a/c statements to reclaim penalty charges.

 

Then, when they fail to produce the Credit Agreement in the SAR reply, you could complain to the Information Commissioners Office. However, although I've suggested this in a number of cases (for various reasons), I DON'T know how successful this will be in getting sight of the agreement.

 

The favoured route is now the CPR Strategy - see Link No2 in my signature below.

[firstship]

Hi slick132.

 

...thanks for your response to my thread,

 

The BC not so good

 

will send SAR to start with and if I dont get the required signed copy etc

 

will follow your suggestion and complain to the Information Commisioners Office

 

.Have read your thread using the CPR strategy and I will ultimatley use this route...

 

...Question is CPR ok even if Court Proceedings are not even an issue at this point in time

(I note the comments re saving costs and time etc),,,,

,,,,,,,,,thanks again,,,,,

,,,,,will stay in touch,,

,,Firstship

[firstship]

The Shadow.............thanks for your response to my thread not good news about BC not responding to SAR either,Slick132 suggests the CPR route,which appears from other threads to produce results....In general do you think BC are the most difficult to deal with,they are certainly not quick at responding to any letters.However will try SAR see what happens if not CPR...thanks again your response is appreciated................Firstship

[firstship]

out of the blue have received a 3 page letter from Barclaycard on their interpretation of the CCA1974s77/78

(this is a standard letter then my name and account number inserted)

 

it is very interesting and goes into great detail why they do not have to produce a signed copy of the original agreement

 

but just supply T&C only,

 

which they have done and on this basis they do not consider the account is in dispute..

 

.....very nice of them to go to this trouble.

 

...I have SAR'd them awaiting reply,

 

although the SHADOW seems fairly confident they still wont supply the signed document,so CPR final route....Lets see.....????

[firstship]

Have received a short letter from Barclaycard stating that my SAR is receiving their attention.

 

MY REPLY is also a short letter DSAR request dated 31st May 2009 the date today 11th July,

 

YOU HAD 40 days in which to respond it is now day 41

 

you will not be surprised that the relevant Commisioner will be informed of your complete contempt of a legal request.........

 

...............................Have not posted my reply yet to BC...

 

....is this a bit strong-stupid-or OK..

 

..comments please.

..thankyou Firstship

[slick132]

Hi FS,

 

The ICO are too busy to be of any immediate help to you and may take months to look at your case.

 

Have you looked at taking court action to get your data. Bank Templates Library, items 18, 19 and 20 if I recall correctly.

 

Send the LBA first and take that time to research how to file Form N1 to get the data you want.

 

BC usually DO send the data for the last 6 years - but they make take longer than they're supposed to.

[firstship]

slick132....thanks for your reply,looking at template library,as you suggest see how this works out,keep you in the picture....thankyou..................Firstship

[firstship]

Hi all...

 

....been very quiet on the BC front.

 

..at last a response to my SAR,

 

a huge quantity of statements

 

,letter stating

"If I asked for a list of default charges applied to the account

,they cannot supply these individually as their system is not enabled to do this

however the default charges if any will be contained within the statements,(final paragraph)

 

The information we have enclosed relating to this account is all that we hold...

 

...No copy of agreement in fact nothing else outside of the statements

 

,so which route do we take blast straight in

 

WITH NO AGREEMENT NO ENFORCEABLE ACCOUNT,

 

or a more gentle approach asking for copy of ageement as they are required TO SUPPLY UNDER A SAR REQUEST ALONG WITH OTHER DATA....

 

......any thoughts,,,

 

,,,,Thankyou Firstship

[slick132]

Hi FS,

 

You can certainly now send them an "a/c In Dispute" letter.

 

It's up to you if you decide to withhold further payments, until they produce your credit agreement.

 

I would personally now complain to the ICO that BC have failed to include a copy of the agreement in the SAR response. I think it can do no harm.

 

And start doing a list of charges for your SOC.

[firstship]

SLICK132.......

 

.....thanks for your reply I will follow your advice and send A/C in dispute letter but continue to pay them,

 

will stop payments if I do not receive the documents

 

they should supply.

 

YES ICO will be informed.

 

BC are very similar to Halifax they seem to get delight in stringing out CCA and SAR requests as long as possible,

 

with stupid replies,certainly a lot of patience required................MANY THANKS..FIRSTSHIP

[firstship]

now received an interim letter,

 

QUOTE we are currently dealing with your enquiry,

 

but I regret that we cannot give a full reply at the moment,

 

and they go on to say Apologies for delay etc

 

and their customer services will write as soon as we are in a position to do so..

 

IS THIS JUST ANOTHER DELAYING TACTIC,OR DO I GET THE IMPRESSION THEY CANNOT PRODUCE

THE SIGNED AGREEMENT anybody else had this type of response recently?????

 

??????thankyou....Firstship

[slick132]

They're just playing for time.

 

Ignore their inadequacies and always follow your own timescale.

[firstship]

have now received statements and a number of documents in response to my SAR,

 

 

they have even sent a copy of a signed application form but still not a copy of the signed agreement.

 

 

I assume the signed application form is insufficient data

 

 

and does not carry any legal weight or will be regarded as a substitute for the signed agreement???????????????

 

 

any thoughts regarding next step....thanks Firstship

[slick132]

Hi FS,

 

Use Link No5 in my signature to check if the "application" contains the Prescribed Terms, etc which would make the agreement enforceable. If you're still in doubt, post a copy of the Application so we can check it over.

 

Have you put together your SOC yet detailing penalty charges on the a/c.

[firstship]

Thanks SLICK132 for you reply

 

 

"quote..

application form contains my name

date of birth,

nationality,

telephone number,

email address.

my bank details.

mothers maiden name,

employers name,

salary,

telephone number,

Nectar account details.

barclaycard protection plan(now cancelled)

my signature and

date and details of a transfer balance from another credit card,

that is it.

 

 

Have read your link and I think it is just an application form

without any financial details of any description

and would YOU agree does not constitute an Agreement????????

 

 

Ref SOC no have not made claims to date will come back to you on this,

WILL NEED SOME HELP ON THIS...........

.......thankyou Firstship.............

...cancelled protection plan in 2006

can I claim back from 2001 to 2006????????????

[the_shadow]

Hi Firstship, you do really need to post up a scan of the application for advice on enforceability or not, people cant really make the call on just details of what someone sees on the form, others may see something else hidden away that satsifies the prescribed terms requirement.

 

If you believe you were mis-sold the PPI then yes you can claim back the payments although I think they'll fight anything older than 6 years but there is a possible avenue for claiming even the older payments back.

 

S.

[firstship]

The Shadow..thanks for your reply see attatchment....comments please..with thanks...Firstship

 

 

 

cca return.pdf

[the_shadow]

Its an app form and a bad copy of an app form at that... didnt they send any t&c and claim that they were the back or the second page of that form?

 

As it stands the form contains none of the prescribed terms and shouldnt be enforceable.

 

S.

[firstship]

Shadow,,,,thanks thought this was only an application form,

 

YES they sent T&Cs Statements etc and No did not claim they where the reverse of the signed agreement.

 

Barclaycard have sent pretty much everything apart from the signed agreement,

 

and their covering letter states

 

"Any other details requested which are available will be sent to you from the appropriate areas"

 

Me thinks this is another delaying tactic,

they are way past their 40 days,

ICO has been informed,

 

do I dig my heels in and say if you cannot supply the signed agreement a

s you are required to do under my SAR request

,you must inform me,s

hould you not comply within 14 days I will no longer consider the account?

 

agreement enforceable........is this OK or am I being to rash.???????

 

thanks for your reply..Firstship