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NO ENTRY PCN - Temple Mill Lane (Newham council)

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Evening,

 

What a quality football! :)

 

 

Got a PCN from Newham council / Temple Mill Lane for 'disobeying no entry restriction' (no entry sign).

Never happened to me before!

 

Here is the situation:

 

1) It's a regular two way street with sudden 'no entry' signs for BUSSES AND CYCLES ONLY (pls see attachment from google maps)

 

2) The driver driven past the sign for about 7-8 meters BUT then put on reverse gear when it was safe to do so and driven back

 

3) Upon driving backwards the driver noticed an unmarked vehicle parked on double yellow lines with a camera and a grumpy person inside; obviously filming.

 

4) Got a PCN.

 

Put together a long appeal and got REJECTION as follows:

 

1) DRIVER: As can be seen on the video, the driver pulled back when it was safe to do so and to prevent any potential accidents.

COUNCIL: We sent you a PCN because our camera evidence shows your vehicle disobeying a 'no entry' restriction. The relevant sign is round, red, and has a horizontal white line across it.

 

2) DRIVER: There is no prior warning and thus a very strange layout when suddenly the street terminates with 'no entry' signs.

COUNCIL: Whilst it is appreciated that sometimes coming up to a no entry restriction can seem sudden to a motorist especially if unfamiliar with the road, it is very clean in this instance that you had lots of time and space to turn around with no other vehicles in site at the time.

 

3) DRIVER: No safe way to reverse: two way street, cycle lane, busses, and traffic emerging from a car park. Hazardous traffic.

COUNCIL: I note you stated there was hazardous traffic, but it should be stated that this does not mean that a motorist can drive through a no entry restriction

 

4) DRIVER: As per freedom of information act, requested a brakedown on much money they make on that spot, arguing that they prefer to keep it that way to make money rather than put a proper layout in place.

COUNCIL: Please direct such requests to the information governance team using the details xxx....

 

5) DRIVER: Enforcement officer has been parked on a double yellow line in an unmarked vehicle: does this mean any motorist can park on double yellow lines in the borough?

COUNCIL: I note you have stated that the enforcement officers car was parked inappropriately. Please not that whilst our enforcement officers do their best to make sure that there are not causing any inconvenience to others, it can be difficult at times to achieve this to the maximum. However please be assured that our enforcement officers always do their best to avoid any inconvenience whilst enforcing.

 

I disagree with these answers: clearly council is making money here and is not interested in putting things right. And clearly they do this by compromising safety of drivers/pedestrians/cyclists and ignoring the normal rules (unmarked camera vans parked on double yellow lines).

 

Do you think I have good chances of appealing to Parking Adjudicator?

How do you suggest to do this?

 

Many thanks

 

PS. On the google screenshot attached another driver is caught with the same 'offence', they are making millions there!!!

google-maps-temple-mill-lane.jpg

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I don't know the answer, but as I understand it, three-point turns and U-turns are not considered appropriate (or legal?) manoeuvres on the road. So, how is a motorist supposed to deal with a situation where there is no legal exit? It seems like a very strange road layout.

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Any suggestions? Thanks

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If you approach the road from Honour Lea Avenue the should be a sign in front of you stating the road ahead is restricted and an exemption for cycles and buses, this is missing >> https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5496275,-0.0090137,3a,75y,63.39h,79.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szvmM6iTQTvWr7G-pbW4S0A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

 

When you click on my link you carry straight ahead for this PCN area...

 

 

 

Also at the point you crossed there are no entry signs to your left (exit for car park) as you approach what is basically a dead end for cars.... Since as a car driver you can only go to the car park (1st left) or the service road on the right...

 

 

In this link other cars do exactly the same as you did https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5499877,-0.0077389,3a,75y,97.33h,77.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHBk5UYq213dMIr7Emgt8ow!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

 

 

There is also a weird sign here stating left turn only that is incorrectly positioned could help you here..

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5499877,-0.0077389,3a,75y,332.16h,81.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHBk5UYq213dMIr7Emgt8ow!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en


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I would argue that if the sign in the 3rd link was correctly positioned you would have followed the one way sign and then you would not have followed as you did incorrectly, this is you get out of jail card possibly?

 

 

Or

 

 

This sign or similar is missing

 

 

bus-lane-sign-times.jpgBus lane to be used by buses and pedal cyclists only. Times of operation are shown

 

Bus lane signs

 

A bus lane will often have a sign where it starts to inform road users of who is permitted to use it and its times of operation. Bus lane signs where the bus symbol contains the word ‘local’ such as the sign to the right is to be used by buses that run a local service only. Where the word ‘local’ is not shown, the lane may be used by any vehicles that is designed to carry 8 people or more.

Other road users are permitted to use a bus lane outside its hours of operation. If the hours of operation are not show, the bus lane is in operation 24 hours a day.


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So should I go ahead and appeal to Parking Adjudicator?

Or i better pay the reduced prices, which I am totally against since this is not a fair charge by any means, shouldn't really happen in a European (hmm) society.

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If you approach the road from Honour Lea Avenue the should be a sign in front of you stating the road ahead is restricted and an exemption for cycles and buses, this is missing >> https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5496275,-0.0090137,3a,75y,63.39h,79.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szvmM6iTQTvWr7G-pbW4S0A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

 

When you click on my link you carry straight ahead for this PCN area...

 

 

 

Also at the point you crossed there are no entry signs to your left (exit for car park) as you approach what is basically a dead end for cars.... Since as a car driver you can only go to the car park (1st left) or the service road on the right...

 

 

In this link other cars do exactly the same as you did https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5499877,-0.0077389,3a,75y,97.33h,77.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHBk5UYq213dMIr7Emgt8ow!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

 

 

There is also a weird sign here stating left turn only that is incorrectly positioned could help you here..

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5499877,-0.0077389,3a,75y,332.16h,81.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHBk5UYq213dMIr7Emgt8ow!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

 

That left turn sign is for cars coming out of the side street opposite, no?

 

But in respect of the OP's latest post I would appeal on the grounds of incorrect signage and see what happens.

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Yes which points to my arguments on this point the signs in this area are not compliant


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Thanks. I have logged the appeal with the Parking Adjudicator, will post results here.

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I had exactly the same problem. I'm also going to appeal. Please share the results as it seem quite a number of people are getting hit with this.

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Good Luck with this ! I was re-directed to this particular trap in April by Newham Council employees working as parking assistants at the Queen Elizabeth Hockey Centre. I paid under protest but engaged in correspondence with various bods at Newham who seemed unconcerned at the local magistrates' repeated decisions to throw out cases brought against similar victims of this money making venture. Plenty of online comment is available in a variety of forums. I shall be making a FOI request regarding the income from this trap.

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SUCCESS!!!

 

The Adjudicator directs London Borough of Newham to cancel the Penalty Charge Notice.

 

Adjudicator's Reasons

----------

The appellant's vehicle passed in between two clearly signed 'No Entry' signs.

It stopped and reversed.

When read in conjunction with the site plan diagram, in particular the area shaded yellow, I am not

persuaded that the vehicle contravened Article 3 of the Traffic Management Order.

I will therefore allow the appeal.

----------

 

I think what this means is that simply crossing a 'no entry' sign cannot by itself lead to a fine.

 

Justice!

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Hi,

I received a PCN for contravening the No Entry sign on Sept 2016 and yesterday managed to successfully appeal at the adjudication.

 

The adjudicator took 2 minutes to decide that the 'No entry' except for buses is the wrong sign in use and therefore illegal

 

Details of my case reference which should soon be on the London Tribunal website is as follows:

Case Reference: 2160492541

 

Adjudicator's Decision:

Adjudicator's Reasons

A contravention can occur if a vehicle is driven so as to fail to comply with a 'no entry' signs

 

 

 

There appears to be no dispute that the vehicle was in Temple Mill Lane, as shown in the closed circuit television (cctv) images produced by the Enforcement Authority.

 

The vehicle is seen to pass what appears to be a qualified 'no entry' sign.

However, the camera does not focus on the sign and, perhaps surprisingly, there are no other images of it produced by the Enforcement Authority.

 

 

I am therefore unable to determine what the exemption is or if it is, alternatively, a time variant.

 

It is clear from the road markings that some vehicles can pass. If, as might be the case, this is a bus gate then a 'no entry' sign is not that prescribed.

 

The Adjudicator is only able decide an appeal by making findings of fact on the basis of the evidence produced by the parties and applying relevant law.

 

Considering all the evidence before me carefully I cannot find as a fact that, on this particular occasion, the contravention alleged did occur.

 

Accordingly this appeal must be allowed.

 

Henry Michael Greenslade Adjudicator 7th January 2017 2160492541 PN14244668

 

I had written also the following comments in my evidence to the adjudicator

although in the end it was unnecessary as the sign was simply illegal and should be taken down:

 

Notice of Appeal Additional Information

 

Source: Online appeal received online: 23/11/2016 Appeal details:

I finally received a copy of the DVD from Newham Council to show CCTV footage of the alleged contravention, 3 months after the incident.

 

 

I can now understand what I have been accused of contravening,

however I feel more strongly that I have a right of appeal on the grounds that the signage along the road is wholly inadequate and possibly dangerous.

 

Now that I have seen the evidence,

I cannot deny that I drove through a 'No Entry' sign.

 

 

However for motorists on entering Temple Mill Lane, a long straight road, there is no signage to indicate at the beginning of the junction that the road is becoming a "buses only" road.

 

There is no change to the road markings or diversion offered e.g. a red coloured lane to indicate a bus lane or a road to turn-off, thus your mind is focused on the road ahead, which indicates a narrowing of the road, and a "Give Way" sign (after the No Entry sign) to give priority to the oncoming traffic.

 

There is no warning prior to the "No Entry" sign that motorists are unable to continue along the road.

Also, there is no provision to advise motorists what they should do to avoid the "No Entry" sign.

The only option is to stop in the middle of the road and perform a U-Turn , which in itself would be dangerous on this narrow road with a cycle lane.

 

As you can also see on the CCTV footage,

a cyclist is riding alongside on my left at the exact point I was about to enter the 'buses-only' section.

Any sort of sudden stop to avoid the contravention would have created a dangerous situation for the cyclist.

 

I also refer to previous case references where identical situations to the one I faced occurred and where their appeals were accepted: Case reference: 2150441067 Case reference: 2150433502

 

Given the previous cases where appeals have been accepted 1 year ago,

I am surprised that the existing signage is still allowed to stand.

 

 

The whole signage on this road is confusing as there were no indications,

advanced warnings or any diversion which I would have thought by law should have been there to avoid driver confusion.

 

Hope this helps.

It's just a disgraceful money making cash cow by Newham Council who have been completely obnoxious in the whole process.

Edited by joe1974

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hi there

 

is there any particular info you can give me as i have received a PCN for no entry on temple mill lane.

any info would be very helpful

 

hi i could not find your case on london tribunal website

can you help please

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On 25/09/17 I was taking my grandchildren to Homerton Hospital clinic at Liberty Bridge Rd Post Code E20 1AS. As I was driving down Temple Mill Lane I arrived at a point where, I either had to go to the car park or carry straight on. I drove to the car park turned around and at Exit I was faced with the same dilemma. I had 2 options: -

A- To take an unsafe right turn towards the adjacent traffic lights.

B- To go left onto restricted road

Temple Mill Lane is a regular 2-way road. Some way into this road it is closed to normal traffic except for buses and cycles.

There are no diversion signs to advise drivers to the other end of Temple Mill Lane. This results in drivers keep driving round and round until somehow find the long way around to the other end of this road or take the no-entry road.

It appears that this crazy arrangement is either deliberately so designed to generate income for the council or is the result of incompetent traffic managers.

Please advise me if you manage to successfully challenge the council.

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Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

You need to start a new thread of your own please. It won't help if you post on someone else's thread.

 

Best, HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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