Caught shoplifting in Boots, police not called - HELP!

[Ladybug1]

I really need some advice. Last night night I was caught shoplifting at Boots. I was detained by LP and they advised they had been watching me for a months, maybe even a year, and knew I had stolen other items. The LP guy said I had only got lucky that he had never been on duty to catch me. I did not have any photo ID so he was going to call the police but eventually decided not to after I'd explained my situation. He took my debit card details, train pass details (it has my photo but isn't official ID) and accepted a letter I had in my bag from Stepchange as proof of my address. He took a photo of the address section.

 

Basically, I've been shoplifting makeup items from there for a while, probably is a year. I work in the financial services industry and they've recently brought in annual credit checking for financial soundness. I am in a lot of debt and do have multiple defaults and a CCJ. I was completely honest on these checks but my manager said that going forward, I must show I'm repaying more of my debts than I have been otherwise they can't prove I'm financially sound and this could affect my job.

 

I'm quite into makeup myself so I know the value of items. I stupidly thought it would be easy to steal some makeup items, these are from more high end brands rather than the cheaper items, and sell them on via a friend I have from school who is into all sorts of dodgy stuff and was quite happy to take these items and give me a cut, which I've been using to pay off more of my debts.

 

I started doing it with the intention that I'd only do it a few times and then try find another way to make money but it was so easy that it carried on. When LP questioned me he did say he could see I'm a genuine person and that I'm not the usual 'type' they catch, which I'm assuming means I'm working and not a drug addict or something. He completely believed me, which was helped by the fact I had the Stepchange letter in my bag which I had with me as I needed it earlier in the day to show my manager at work - I was advised to contact Stepchange as it's a recognised place of support by my company.

 

He took my photo and details, said I was banned from all Boots stores for life, and then gave me one of the RLP leaflets. I've read people don't usually pay these fines but I fully intend to because in my case, the store is out of pocket as they were only able to recover the item I was trying to steal yesterday but they know I've done it before as he was able to go into detail about certain items I know I've stolen, even right down to how I concealed them and the aisles I was in at the time.

 

He escorted me outside and we stood for a long time talking. He was absolutely lovely and not at all threatening. He started off by saying that even though I wasn't arrested, they could still 'crime' it because of all the other evidence and at the very least I'm looking at a big fine, which I fully expect and accept. I asked if there was any way I could pay a fine that day, which required me having to phone my elderly gran to beg for some money (and having to lie to her about the reason why as there's no way I could tell her what I'd done, she'd be sick with worry). She agreed to transfer me some money there and then and after I got off the phone to her, I was in tears in front of the LP (because it was the first time I'd ever lied to my precious gran). I hadn't noticed but the LP had also made a call to someone at the same time as I'd been speaking to my gran. He seemed to take pity on me in my pathetic state, and said not to get the money from my gran and that he would handle this himself and whilst I wouldn't avoid the fine, I shouldn't get a record. A criminal record would probably screw me over more than my credit file in terms of my job!

 

Despite what he said, I'm still terrified they will change their mind and report this because of all the evidence they have, which I know they must have because of the detail they went into. I couldn't deny any of it. I feel so stupid and I know I will never be doing this again. I have literally exchanged one set of problems for another, not to mention increased my debt but that's the least of my worries right now.

 

The LP told me he suspects I've had about a grand's worth of merchandise and he's probably not wrong.

 

Can someone tell me if this is likely to be reported to the police, despite what he said? He did also take my phone number and said he'd be 'ringing it through' first thing today and I haven't had any calls, he seemed to be making reference to RLP when he was talking about the report but in my state at the time, I wasn't entirely sure and I left without asking a load of questions I should have. He was genuinely nice to me and said he has literally never done that before with any thief but could tell I'm a nice person who's been put into a very difficult situation. He told me to 'sort myself out' and not see stealing as an answer to my debt problems.

 

Aby help or advice out there?

 

Thanks!

[mikeymack2002]

Welcome to CAG:

 

 

To be blunt its done its over forget it move on! If the Police were going to be involved then they'd have been called. The shop didn't because they can make money out of you end of...

 

 

Second part you have a problem with taking stuff, stop it, it may affect your ability to be in the financial industry. Is it worth the risk? No.

 

 

You will receive many letters just ignore them. Don't call them don't do anything. (except stop stealing) !!

 

 

Read as many other post in this section to get up to speed asap ok! Click here >>http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?448994-RLP-FAQ-s.-What-do-they-mean-Reviewed-September-2015

[Ladybug1]

Thanks for the response, and you can absolutely bet your life I will never be doing it again. I feel so ashamed and so stupid.

 

I know you say to ignore the letters, which I can understand in cases where the items were recovered and the shop suffered no loss but in my case the shop have taken a loss because of the other things I stole, which they have evidence of.

 

Should I not therefore pay some sort of fine because of this? I'm thinking that if I don't pay the fines, the CCTV footage they have of me will then be passed to the police and a charge brought against me.

 

I feel like I should pay something because I did steal a lot of items and feel I should atone for that.

[mikeymack2002]

We don't not judge here on CAG we all make mistakes. Sometimes a sharp reminder is all it takes to get someone to stop silly things like this.

 

 

If you wish to donate money then donate to CAG lol. Giving money away to RPL is throwing it away for no reason. Take it from me if you steal again then you can kiss goodbye a perfectly great career, its not worth it, take some advice go car booting and see the deals you can pick up there, like No7 products and so on, very cheap too. I do this all the time...

 

 

They will not pass the information on as they have lost the chance to involve them by letting you go. This is what they rely on, your lack of knowledge and you panicking as you are...

 

 

As far as atoning, you have already, you came here, just remember this:- If you steal it they will come! (Cops with handcuffs, finger printing the works) scared enough to stop now?

 

 

Remember what you said >>

The LP told me he suspects I've had about a grand's worth of merchandise and he's probably not wrong. That says it all ok!

[silverfox1961]

Hi and welcome to CAG,

 

Firstly, I hope this lesson is enough for you to stop permanently. Stealing to fund your debts can only lead to a worse situation. You are with Stepchange and as such you need to ensure that you are only paying them what you can and not what you think your creditors want. Do another I&E to make sure you are doing the right things.

 

As for Boots, I would suggest that you are not in any position to pay them anything. Once your financial circumstances change sufficiently enough you could offer them something but not before. I am loathe to say this but Boots add on a little extra to store prices to counter 'lossage' so they won't miss what they haven't got.

 

If you do choose to pay Boots, do it directly, not through RLP as they will take their cut before passing the rest on. I suggest making a donation to charity instead (when you can-not before)

 

As for RLP. Ignore and when they send a few more letters, ignore them too. They will pass this fictitious charge on to a debt collector who can also be ignored even when they say they will pass the debt back to RLP and recommend they take court action. Nobody will.

 

We will help as long as necessary so long as you commit to not doing this again. Do you think there may be a bit of depression there? People do silly things when depressed. Have a chat with your GP if needed.

[Ladybug1]

You could be right there, though I've never ever thought of myself as depressed, I'm always very jovial and happy but I've had a pretty rough year - lost a close friend suddenly last year after he got food poisoning, he was type 1 diabetic and slipped into a coma and died. He was only 25.

 

Got suspended from work for a gross misconduct allegation (which was NOT a theft allegation, I will point out!), it was to do with breaching data protection but was all based on hearsay and nothing else. The allegations were dropped after a full investigation which found absolutely nothing, but it dragged on for so long because (unbeknownst to me at the time) HR were refusing to take it to disciplinary stage. The manager who suspended me apparently decided to go against HR advice anyway and went for the full thing but I was found completely innocent and reinstated into my role. Strangely, the manager who suspended me left the company less than a fortnight after I returned. To this day I'll never know why it went that far. So that was very stressful.

 

On Boxing Day I was flooded very badly, I'm still dealing with that and slowly getting my house back in order but insurance is proving to be a nightmare in terms of who will cover me once my current policy expires.

 

And just recently there were a load of redundancies announced in my department. I've ended up being OK but there was a period of five weeks when we didn't know who was for the chop and who wasn't.

 

So it really hasn't been the best year for me, I will make an appointment to see my doctor to see what they say.

 

And thank you to everyone who has responded and been so helpful, this is a truly wonderful forum of very helpful people! I've got a friend who's currently going through some employment issues and I've directed her here to start off with.

[dx100uk]

please stop using the word FINE.

 

 

I think you will find that he NEVER used that word.

 

 

RLP CANNOT FINE YOU, only the police or courts can do that

and its not gone there and never will.

 

 

just to further comfort you.

 

 

there is no point whatsoever in paying RLP anything

'because you have stolen stuff that's never been recovered or paid for'...

 

 

amything you pay RLP will NEVER get back to the retailer

 

 

you've done wrong

you know it

 

 

now its time to move on in life

and change your ways

 

 

dx

[brassnecked]

One could regard RLP as guilty of extortion as they have no legal basis for their demands, they also lost in court in the Oxford case.

[Ladybug1]

I had a call from the LP who caught me today.

 

 

He said his boss was really not happy that the police weren't being called

and also wanted me arrested because the job I'm in 'must involve money'

if I have to go through the kind of credit checking that I go through, which obviously is correct.

 

 

He said his boss thought it should be reported to the police as I'm likely a risk in the job I'm in.

I know I'm not, I've worked for the same company for 11 years and I don't even have direct access to cash,

I'm in the back office. But it would NEVER occur to me to steal from my workplace.

But obviously they don't know that.

 

 

The LP said that he had also contacted RLP and that, based on the footage they had of me stealing various items over such a long period of time, the 'fine' they would be looking to give me is £3k, which obviously I know everyone would tell me not to pay anyway.

 

The LP said he had managed to convince is boss to handle it 'in store' instead and keep both the police and RLP out of it

but I would have to go back to store and pay a £350 'fine' which would be in cash

and essentially go back directly to Boots.

He said that would be the end of the case.

 

I am able to do that,

he asked if I could do today

 

 

I can't as I'm not at work today and I live 30 miles away from that city centre

so the store would be closed by the time I could get there.

He agreed Monday morning would be fine.

 

I'm just nervous that the police will be there and I'll be arrested.

He has been super nice all the way through

 

 

I'm worried his boss has asked for this to get me back there and involve the police. I

know they have plenty of CCTV evidence to get me convicted

but equally if I don't go back and pay the fine,

they can still report it to the police.

 

Can someone advise what I should be doing?

 

 

I'm perfectly happy to pay this fine if this is going to be an end to it,

I just don't know if they can have me arrested when I go back there.

[dx100uk]

I really do hope whoever lp is [what does LP stand for?]

 

has the authority and is NOT using the word FINE?

he cant use that

they cannot fine you

its civil recovery issue

 

gotta admit

however nice this guy sounds

it really smacks that he wants this money for his back pocket

 

they have no powers whatsoever to report you to anyone other than involve the police

and they'd be at your door if they were interested at all.

 

under DPA boots or whomever have no authority whatsoever to report this to your employer [Data Protection act etc]

 

something smells here to me.

 

dx

[Ladybug1]

LP (loss prevention), he calls himself a Loss Prevention Officer which I'm guessing is a fancy word for security guard.

 

I agree it sounds a bit off, I feel like they've got me in a catch 22 situation here because I know they've got plenty of CCTV footage. If they didn't, he wouldn't have been able to accurately describe various items I'd taken and when I did it.

 

The guy said he would call me on Monday morning at 9am, presumably I'd be going to the Boots store, but he didn't specify. I agree it sounds like he might want this cash in his back pocket but to be honest, I don't care if it buys me peace of mind.

 

I just want to know how likely it is they could call the police once I'm there.

They have my full name and address, so I would have thought that if Boots themselves were so intent on prosecuting me, they would have reported me already and the police would have been at my house.

 

I've arranged to borrow some cash from my mum, though she doesn't know what it's for, so I've basically got the weekend now to decide what the hell to do.

 

Given the amount of CCTV footage they have, wouldn't the police still take an interest even though Boots did let me go at the time?

With all my correct details and the evidence, surely it would be a nice and easy case for them?

 

It's also worth adding that he said an 'in store' fine would be around £700

but when I said there's no way I could pay that, he asked how much I could pay.

 

 

He then made a call to someone on another phone whilst on the line to me,

I could hear his side of the discussion, he said it was his boss.

 

 

He said he was negotiating with him on whether the amount could be less, and then he agreed that £350 would be acceptable to close the whole case.

There didn't seem to be much negotiating required to get the amount halved.

 

I'm wondering if I should call the Boots head office and ask if this is a known practice in their stores.

 

 

The more I think about it, the more I'm thinking that Boots would have just called the police without even bothering to listen to the LP guy if they really wanted to.

 

 

It does feel like he's taking advantage of how much I value my job but then I can't prove that and if I don't pay up, I'm thinking maybe he'll just pass the details to the police anyway out of spite and I'll be screwed.

[silverfox1961]

If this guy rings you up again, record the call any way you can. This is not normal practice and I would be very wary of giving this guy a penny. Just because he was speaking to 'another' doesn't mean anything. he could easily have been pretending to call someone else.

 

Did he ring you from a mobile?

If he was acting on behalf of the store, they have landlines so he would have called from them. If it came up 'number withheld' I would be very wary.

 

What i am trying to say without actually saying it is that this seems very dodgy to me.

 

I suggest staying off the phone.

 

What you could do with is a third party acting for you to contact Boots about this guy and see if they are legit or not. If he did this with Boots blessing, there will be something written somewhere.

[Ladybug1]

It did come from a withheld number,

but when I gave my number on the day I was caught (with a female staff member present also),

he called me from the company mobile phone he was using to check I'd given him the right number and it rang as withheld then.

So I'm guessing that's the phone he was calling from.

 

He said other stuff like, like how they all had a meeting about it (the counter staff, his boss and security staff) to discuss my case and how they'd all been wanting to prosecute but eventually decided to let him make the decision.

 

This also seems odd to me -

why would Boots, who have ultimately taken the loss here,

allowed one of their security staff to make a decision about this?

That doesn't seem like normal practice either.

[mikeymack2002]

Like I said yesterday it's done and dusted move on. Don't play silly buggers with the LP if he calls log the call record it report it to Boots HO.

 

If he or they call again remind them that this is harassment. You can always ask your mobile supplier to change your number.

 

Remember that although you were searched he or they had no right to look into or use your mobile phone or demand your number.

 

You DO NOT have to give them your number ever...

[Ladybug1]

I get what you're saying and I know that in the majority of cases, if they haven't called the police at the time then they won't.

 

 

But in my case I'm concerned they could still report it - they have my name and address and all the footage, all they've got to to do is report it and I'm sure the police would be interested in arresting me based on the amount of footage they've got. It would be an easy prosecution, I could imagine.

 

I don't fall within the 'below £200' value which is what the law states is low-rate theft. The total amount is probably a grand or more and this sits in a higher category, that's why I'm concerned there's a very good chance they could still get the police involved.

 

Or are you saying that they'd have done that already if they wanted to? It kind of feels like this is a bribe - 'pay us this and we won't tell the police' - which is the only thing I feel I've got to my advantage, since I'm sure large stores wouldn't usually handle something like that in this way.

[Ladybug1]

Just to update on this, I got a third party to call Boots HO about this and she spoke to a lovely man called Toby.

 

 

He completely agreed that something didn't seem right and he advised the majority of shoplifting cases are dealt with as civil matters.

 

 

He called through to the store manager today who advised the matter hasn't been reported to the police and there is no requirement to pay any 'fine' on Monday.

 

 

Apparently she also spoke to the security guard who denied mentioning anything about a cash fine, he claimed he only called me to discuss the charges I would be getting from RLP and to clarify thing further.

 

 

Toby himself that Boots prefer to deal with things as a civil matter, which is obviously because they know there's more chance of making money out of people that way.

 

 

Obviously she didn't say that to him.

So quite clearly this guard was trying to exploit the situation for his own ends, which is what I did suspect all along.

 

 

Toby has reassured me a lot in terms of police involvement, they haven't been called and he said they're highly unlikely to be, though he obviously couldn't say it's a guarantee but I'm guessing I can pretty much take that as they won't be involved.

 

Thanks to everyone who advised me on this,

it felt shifty from the start but without some other opinions

I probably wouldn't have gone as far as contacting Boots to get the information.

 

 

I'm just wondering now if that security guard will be questioned in relation to that call,

though he denied saying any of those things..

. I'm sure it might slightly taint their opinion of him though.

 

 

Obviously I'm no Saint myself but he clearly was trying to take advantage of someone he knew was in absolute turmoil which I believe makes him no better than the thief I have been!

[silverfox1961]

WOW! As I said yesterday this seemed dodgy. Your third party has confirmed this. While no doubt no evidence exists and I bet he has cleared his phone log, I feel his actions should be reported to the SIA who licence security staff.

He has taken full advantage of your situation for his own benefit. There is no way he would be calling you about a 'fine' when Boots policy is to pass on civil cases to RLP to chase.When those letters star, we can assist.

[Ladybug1]

I agree, and he seemed so confident and convincing when he was speaking to me that it's making me think I won't be the first person he has tried this with and I'm sure there will be others who've coughed up.

 

 

The giveaway really was the bargaining he was doing, such as asking 'well how much can you pay?' when I said I couldn't pay the £700 upfront. And that it must be cash.

 

 

It hardly seemed to be the way a large retail store would deal with a shoplifting case.

Toby also completely believed I had received that call and said that if it were proven he had done that, it would be gross misconduct and dismissal but he also said there's probably no proof either side, which is true.

 

 

Obviously phone records can be investigated by the police but I highly doubt anyone would do that in this case, especially since I'm in no position myself to take the moral high ground. I'm just glad I found out it wasn't legit before parting with the cash.

 

Apparently it will be around three weeks before I get the first letter.

I'm not too concerned about those anyway - as someone who's spent years in a lot of debt,

 

 

I am more than familiar with the sort of tactics and threats they're likely to come out with and experience of this does mean I'm not the type now to cave under pressure with silly letters.

 

 

I imagine they have even less clout than my actual creditors, since I did borrow money from them and they're entitled to chase me for it but from what I've read RLP have no clout at all.

 

I only wonder one thing - if so many people ignore these letters and don't pay, why don't RLP or Boots then decide to just escalate those cases to the police anyway out of spite, if nothing else? Is it just a simple case of the police not being interested if they weren't called at the time?

[mikeymack2002]

What did concern me yesterday was the fact this LP took this young lady outside for some reason, it appears from the responses it may well have been financial but, I will let this one hang here...

 

 

If its a company phone then the call will be logged on the system, if the LP used his own phone again this will also be there,

 

 

Again the matter seems to be closed once more, but consider downloading the app to allow you to record your calls and put a shortcut on the home screen, don't be afraid to use it....

 

 

As far as RLP goes ignore them totally from now on, all I can say to you now is that, Light fingers cause a health hazard.... Look what it's done so far, be good and learn please.

 

 

Have a nice day!

[silverfox1961]

I have yet to see a case that was dealt with in store that was later passed to the police. Why not? Not 100% sure. I can see no reason why they wouldn't pass on evidence to the police to deal with.

 

As the police did not attend in this particular case, they shouldn't be involved but as Boots 'allege' they have the evidence of other thefts, why not pass it on for the feds to investigate. Perhaps they rely on their own evidential process rather than a stores CCTV.

 

If Boots wanted to, they could get the phone logs from their telecoms supplier to show what calls were made then ask why would a security member be making these calls after the event. There would be no need for it as they pass on all cases to RLP. Most stores have forgotten about you the moment you are released.

 

It's not about the 'moral high ground' You stole, he exploited that presumably for his own ends. two wrongs don't make a right!

[silverfox1961]

Also, I doubt very much the phone call on Monday will arrive. If he does, try and record it. There are apps that can be used to record all calls

[Ladybug1]

What did concern me yesterday was the fact this LP took this young lady outside for some reason, it appears from the responses it may well have been financial but, I will let this one hang here...

 

 

If its a company phone then the call will be logged on the system, if the LP used his own phone again this will also be there,

 

 

Again the matter seems to be closed once more, but consider downloading the app to allow you to record your calls and put a shortcut on the home screen, don't be afraid to use it....

 

 

As far as RLP goes ignore them totally from now on, all I can say to you now is that, Light fingers cause a health hazard.... Look what it's done so far, be good and learn please.

 

 

Have a nice day!

 

Now you mention it, the whole incident outside was very informal, now I look back on it.

 

 

At the time I was in a state and not thinking properly but we were stood there for at least 15 minutes.

 

 

Now, it was right outside one of the entrances to the store and cameras were all around so I don't think there were any of those intentions on his part, but what I do suspect now is that he kept me talking long enough to decide what kind of person I am and whether I'd be likely to part with some cash.

 

 

Given that I spent some of the time in tears, I suspect he thought he could milk me for a fair bit.

At one point, a couple of PCSO officers even walked right past us and he just smiled and waved at them and made it look like he was having a chat with a friend.

 

 

He had the opportunity right there to call them over and report me but he didn't. He also spent the whole time smoking his e-cig, which also seemed very strange considering the situation.

 

My only slight worry is that now he knows he's not getting that cash, he could report me to the police now as there's nothing in it for him but I'm guessing he won't since Boots have already been told about this call and whilst he's denied it, I'm sure it will be making them wonder why I would make that up since I had no reason to! I'm hoping he'll not contact me again and just keep his head down.

 

And I've already downloaded an app that records calls automatically so if he does call again, it will all be on there. There's so many of those apps that maybe he will even be wondering if I did record that call and he'll just let it lie now.

[Ladybug1]

I have yet to see a case that was dealt with in store that was later passed to the police. Why not? Not 100% sure. I can see no reason why they wouldn't pass on evidence to the police to deal with.

 

As the police did not attend in this particular case, they shouldn't be involved but as Boots 'allege' they have the evidence of other thefts, why not pass it on for the feds to investigate. Perhaps they rely on their own evidential process rather than a stores CCTV.

 

If Boots wanted to, they could get the phone logs from their telecoms supplier to show what calls were made then ask why would a security member be making these calls after the event. There would be no need for it as they pass on all cases to RLP. Most stores have forgotten about you the moment you are released.

 

It's not about the 'moral high ground' You stole, he exploited that presumably for his own ends. two wrongs don't make a right!

 

And maybe they make more money going down the civil route than through the courts, since that may result in conviction but no compensation to the store.

 

The LP guy made out like I was the worst shoplifter they had ever had in saying they'd had meetings about it and all sorts, but logically I can't imagine that happens. It feels to me like I'm the only one but obviously common sense tells me that a huge city store very likely has plenty of regular shoplifters to deal with and I can't imagine they would be putting the time in to have staff meetings about all these cases, otherwise they would never have time to be on the shop floor!

 

As far as his call to me goes, I only hope the seed has been planted on their side, and that maybe they will wonder if that call actually did take place. He might even be questioned about it. Agreed that two wrongs don't make a right.

 

I also agree that I'm highly unlikely to receive that call on Monday but if I do, it will be recorded, don't worry!

 

Thanks everyone for the help and support. I know there are plenty out there who do it, get caught, do it again and again until they end up in jail. Not me, not happening. Not worth it. I stupidly thought I'd found a solution to pay off some debts quicker but a criminal record is worse than all the debts in the world!

[silverfox1961]

I completely missed the bit about talking outside the store. That should have been the clue I should have spotted.

 

Once the normal practice of getting your details has been completed, he should have escorted you to the door and that should have been it. No more time spending chatting and I bet none of this 'chat' was mentioned inside the store.

 

Anyhoo, as you now seem much calmer, time to deal with the forthcoming letters. If you have read other threads about RLP, you will know what to do although the letters will keep coming for quite some time.

[mikeymack2002]

SF. The use of 'suspicion' is not permitted by these LPO's they technically could hand it over as there is no time limit to charge for theft. RLP try to keep the Police out of it to try to force/coerce a lifter to pay a fee for their crime this way they can have a great Xmas party! As we know its advised to ignore. But it could come back to haunt the OP IF they continue their chosen path!

 

 

My local shop has been hit big time by shoplifters recently, I advised a change of shelves for the high end items, coffee/washing products so they are no longer in a blind spot, they have a rogues wall so to speak, and if they notice the suspected thief come in, they are asked to leave which they do, the result is this particular shop still has stock, but the next one up the road has been hit.

 

 

Just remember the CPS can use the CCTV at a later date but may not charge so once more it's not worth the hassle....