After some help concerning CRAR

[Diesel2014]

Hii everyone,

 

Is there anyone who could give me some advice or point me in the right direction to get some help about CRAR I can't seem to find out any answers on google.

 

Thanks in advance

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

Can you tell us what CRAR stands for please?

 

What kind of help do you need?

 

HB

[AndyOrch]

CRAR – Commercial Rent Arrears Recovery – allows landlords of commercial property to take control of (seize) goods belonging to the tenant to sell at auction to pay rent arrears. A court order is not required.

 

CRAR replaces the previous Common Law remedy of distress or distraint for rent. However, there are some key differences.

 

Under CRAR:

There must be a written lease in place

Only rent may be recovered, nothing else

CRAR may not be used for mixed use premises

The rent must be at least 7 days overdue

7 days’ notice of the landlord’s intention to exercise CRAR must be served

CRAR may only be enforced by a Certificated Enforcement Agent

 

Forfeiture was not affected by the introduction of The Taking Control of Goods Regulations 2014. It remains a Common Law right for landlords of commercial premises and permits them to terminate the lease before the contract end date because of a breach by the tenant.

[Diesel2014]

Hi honeybee13

 

Its Commercial Rent Arrears Recovery

 

It concerns a high court bailiff calling at our home and threatening to list our personal items and work van without giving us any notice they were calling. Even though they now say they sent a letter but it must be lost in the post.

We are trying to find out where we stand.

 

Hi Andyoch,

 

Do you know about the process of CRAR?

[ploddertom]

What status do you trade as? Which company are enforcing?

[Diesel2014]

We are a House Removal company. ploddertom.

We have now handed the keys back for the unit we was renting but they are saying they can still take possession of our personal goods in our home.

We have no stock and they only item that we own is a van that we use for our work which is now parked at home.

[ploddertom]

What I meant by status is Sole Trader, partnership or Ltd Co. Were you in arrears - if so how much, did you have a lease? How long has the rent been owing - if indeed you do owe it?

 

What value would you put on the van?

[Diesel2014]

Sorry, Sole Trader

- Yes we was in arrears and did have a lease. T

 

 

he arrears are between £4500-£5500 about 18 months worth of rent.

 

 

not sure the exact amount and no seems to be able to give be an exact figure.

 

 

It was our stupidity really we haven't used the unit for 8 months but didn't hand the keys back.

So we do owe the rent. we buried our head.

 

Now this guy from the high enforcement services has turned up at home address and gave us an Avoidance Notice and forced us to make an agreement to pay of the arrears at an amount we can't really afford.

 

 

No prior notice was given even though they are now saying they posted us a 7 days notice and it must have been lost in the post.

 

He threatened to list our personal items and our work van which is at our home address to make us agree with the payment agreement.

 

I have spoken to the council who we owe the money and they have agreed a smaller amount of £150.00 a month but we still have to deal with the enforcement officer and not them and interest is being added on the debt.

 

The van is a 51 plate luton box van with 170000 mile on the clock cost me £2500 3 years ago

[Bailiff Advice]

How much was the repayment agreement that you set up by the enforcement company?

 

Can you list down the amount of fees added by the enforcement compant?

 

With regards to the vehicle, is this sign written?

[ploddertom]

Have a read of these FAQs. http://thesheriffsoffice.com/faqs/category/landlords

[Diesel2014]

Yes the Van is sign Written.

 

I don't no what fees have been added as he left no paperwork as he said he didn't have the correct forms

 

 

he wrote the details on a form that was the wrong one

and said he would get it transferred over to the correct paperwork and send it us.

That was the 31st May.

 

The amount we agreed was £300 a month

 

Yes ploddertom but don't really understand if they should call at our home address and be able to take personal items when this was nothing to do with our business

[ploddertom]

Seeing as the Council are amicable to being paid it is a shame it got to this stage in the first place.

 

 

I would hazard a guess that payments made via the enforcement agent will only result in minimal payments being forwarded to the Council as they will take their fees first.

 

Yes ploddertom but don't really understand if they should call at our home address and be able to take personal items when this was nothing to do with our business

 

As a Sole Trader you are responsible for the debts of the business and if there are no assets at the business address then I'm afraid they look to attending your home address for goods that may satisfy the debt.

 

Of course unless he can gain entry

- it would certainly be a bad idea to let him in voluntarily

- the only goods he may be able to take control of are those outside.

 

 

At risk here are any motor vehicles - has he given you a sheet listing any goods on it?

[Bailiff Advice]

 

he left no paperwork as he said he didn't have the correct forms he wrote the details on a form that was the wrong one and said he would get it transferred over to the correct paperwork and send it us.

 

When this little gem of a document arrives....please let us know on the forum !!

[ploddertom]

When this little gem of a document arrives....please let us know on the forum !!

 

That could be interesting!

[Diesel2014]

ploddertom, He has already entered our house on the 31st. He was going to list our goods but the council rang him to stop it as they said he couldn't.

 

The works vehicle is parked outside but at the moment is not listed.

 

The unit was in my husbands name only and I am not part of the business what would happen if he sold me the van?

[ploddertom]

 

The unit was in my husbands name only and I am not part of the business what would happen if he sold me the van?

 

 

Too late for that unfortunately, there is nothing to stop you moving it though - well out of way. Let's just say he may have some problems given his stance with the paperwork.

[Diesel2014]

Ok so we have to wait for paperwork from them. How long should we wait? We don't really want them calling back out as the council said they charge for every call.

 

I have to go out now for a couple of hours but will check back this afternoon.

 

Thanks everyone for your help so far.

[danmcr]

This cannot be CRAR as;

 

1. CRAR can only be used at the demised premises. (commercial only, no residential element attached)

2. CRAR has nothing to do with High Court Enforcement.

 

Something is not right!

[danmcr]

Sounds like unpaid rent which has ended up in Court then transferred up to HC for enforcement.

[Diesel2014]

It is for unpaid rent yes but they haven't taken us to court for it.

apparently when they go down the Crar route they don't need to go to court first.

 

 

The idea is they hire a high enforcement officer who turn up at your business premises

and threaten to take your stock if you don't pay the arrears.

This is usually enough of a threat to make you pay up.

 

However we were not at the business premises when he called

he googled us and found out our home address and turned up there.

 

 

When we explained we do not have any stock and business premises was used to store furniture from house clearances

but is empty he then said he could take personal items from our home and our work van.

 

 

As he was just about to start listing our items the council rang him

and told him he couldn't list them as he had come to our home

as this is nothing to to do with the business.

 

After he left I found out I should have been given 7 working days notice before he came which I didn't get

but they are now saying they did send it but it must be lost in the post!!

They are going to send me a copy.

 

The only paperwork he left was an Avoidance notice.

 

The council will not give me a straight answer

and are telling me t deal with them direct but I wondering if the Crar is valid

[danmcr]

Forget CRAR, it hasn't been used it seems, it seems the council have taken you to Court and then transferred the matter to the High Court for enforcement.

 

What is the "Avoidance notice" I've never heard of it and it's not a prescribed form for taking control of goods

 

One of the other helpful members will be along soon to help, but it seems to me either something has gone wrong with the enforcement route or the full story isn't apparent.

[Diesel2014]

The council haven't taken us to court, I asked the council and they said no they do not need to go to court first,

as they are going down the CRAR route where they pass this on to the court enforcement services to deal with.

 

The avoidance notice is the first letter we received from the Court Enforcement Service

which he handed us when he came to our home.

 

 

It says - I have visited the date and time stated above in relation to an enforcement power exercisable

in accordance with part 3 of the TRIBUNALS, COURT AND ENFORCEMENT ACT

 

My intention was to take control of goods in order to recover the sum of money associated with a writ

or warrant of control

 

If you fail to contact me within hours I may apply to the court for a warrant of entry

as provided within paragraph of the Tribunals,courts and enforcement act.

 

This is the first contact we have had from the court enforcement services

[ericsbrother]

CRAR only allows seizure of goods at the premises reneted/leased from the plaintiff,

they cannot take anything from anywhere else and that includes the van.

 

 

As siad earlier it can also mean immediate forfeiture of the lease

but if there is nothing at the premises the bailiff has to walk away

and the landlord then has to sue you in the normal way.

 

 

The bloke who turned up on your doorstep is nothing but a liar

and has no rights when he is there in that capacity.

 

 

If you know the name of the company he works for

then a complaint to trading standards will be the minimum as a first step.

 

 

However, to be certain that you havent had a court judgement entered against you via the business address

you should check with the courts service on both your name, business name and both addresses.

[danmcr]

CRAR is only available for use at the demised premises only! Not your home address, next door or your mates house.

 

It has nothing to do with a High Court Enforcement Officer or High Court Bailiff as you put it, only a Certificated Enforcement Agent.

 

The first letter you will get is a notice of enforcement not an "avoidance notice"

 

Court Enforcement Services is a private company headed up by ex Marston directors and a HCEO

and I'm guessing the name they use is to try and make it look like some form of official court department.

 

Also Forfeiture cannot be done at the same time as CRAR or vice versa.

[Diesel2014]

Thank you Ericsbrother, Thats what I was trying to find out.

 

So now if I pay the council direct the agreed monthly payment instead of the enforcement services there is nothing they can do. Is that correct?