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    • Hello there,  I would be most grateful for any help or views on a distressing incident that occurred last summer, I can supply more info.  I am a 70 years old retired man and quite severely disabled I use a Mobilty Scooter and walking aids.  I had recently been admitted to hospital with an ongoing heart condition.     I was quite a frequent customer of my local Pub/Restaurant and I had previously submitted several verbal complaints regarding short measures of drinks.  The both managers took exception to this and told me that I was "Never happy until I found something to moan about"  The atmosphere in the Pub generally declined towards myself and I was certainly made to feel unwelcome.  Matters came to a head when I witnessed a dog, inside the Pub, attack a child (A Toddler) who had accidentally trodden on the Dog`s tail.  Fortunately the parents of the child and the owners of the dog reacted quickly and no injury occurred .  The pub was very busy at this time and the incident went somewhat unnoticed.  I brought the incident to the attention of one of the managers and he actually laughed, it was monstrous.  When the pub became quieter I remonstrated with the said manager and I stated that IMO it was dangerous to have dogs and children in such close proximity whist food is being served.  He became extremely unpleasant and told me in no uncertain terms that if I did not like it then to "Stop coming back"   Two days later whilst I was out in the next village with friends my wife rang to inform me that the Owner of the pub had called around to our home and told me wife that I was barred from the pub and to never venture there again; my wife was distressed, she never frequented the pub and the owner and my wife are not well known to each other.  It is my opinion that he had no right whatsoever, to include my wife in this matter and to do so within her own home whilst I was not present.      I returned home then went to the pub to enquire why the owner had visited my home, and upset my wife.  Whilst I was on the pub car park I was met by both the owner and the manager who both informed that I was barred as I had upset staff members.  No suitable explanation was forthcoming from the owner for the reason of his unwanted and unwelcome visit plus his aggressive manner whilst he talked down to my wife.  They both informed me that they would forcefully remove me if I did not leave the car park.   Due to the immense stress I was enduring I felt an urgent need to use the toilet, when i requested to do so I was denied.  I could not believe it, I was in such a hopeless state and was utterly distraught.  Finally I struggled out of the car park but entered the front of the pub and headed for the toilet however they caught up with me and I sat down on a stool and refused to move until i was granted access to the toilet, however they were both adamant that it would not be allowed.  I reminded them that i was disabled but the owner stated that I was `Milking It` and to "Go behind a hedge".  At least half an hour passed, since I had entered the pub, and the owner stated that he would call the Police, I had gathered my thoughts a little by this time and I stated to them that I would call the Police myself and then see if I would be allowed to use the toilets.  I feel the owner began to realise that he might be in trouble as when I began to make the phone call he stated that I could use the toilet however he would accompany me; i had no option but to concur with his somewhat sick condition.  I was forced to defecate whilst he stood immediately outside the door.  My humiliation and embarrassment was complete.    Two days later I wrote to the owner and informed that I was intending to sue him for disability discrimination related offences.  He chose to disregard what I had stated and replied stating that he had no intention of lifting the ban.  I replied stating that I had no desire to ever enter one of his pubs ever again and that he should re-read my letter and respond to the charges.  He did not reply.   I issued proceedings against him in the Small Claim Court for less than £400  (Some of my clothes and a she were damaged due to soiling).  He, rather surprisingly, instructed a solicitor who has threatened me with costs being awarded against me by the court which could run into many many thousands of pounds and that there was clearly no case for her client to answer.  I must admit to being rather alarmed.  The owner is a wealthy man.     The court have advised mediation and have even offered to award one hour of such FOC; I agreed, the defendant refused.  We now have a date for a hearing and I do not know exactly what to expect.  His court response states that he will be bringing two witnesses with him yet there was only he, the owner and the manager who were present.    Much of this was audio recorded and the owner is not disputing much of my statement.  I never threatened violence or used bad language during this most unpleasant incident.      Any help and opinions would be greatly appreciated.   Kind regards.  --  tibar
    • My friend has told them this and got no response as yet nor any refund,  she  is giving them till about 2pm  to refund it or   will be  reporting it as fraud and  seeing the Police etc, have told her please  do not ever  do it again or drag me into it, I will do my best keep you updated   Sandy xx
    • Make sure you keep that email and print it out for safe keeping, just in case the PPC don't quite get the message.
    • Okay i've just sent the letters recorded delivery and have registered with the claims court. Just reading about PAP.
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We live in a private block of retirement apartments with no assisted help

and a visiting manager employed to look after the building.

 

 

A mentally ill man has been living in an apartment owned by his sister.

For the past 6 months this poor chap has become violent and delusional.

 

 

He has caused damage and has threatened and terrorised elderly residents.

He also exposed himself and made many lewd comments.

He also was involved in an incident where he had a gun and threatened residents, paramedics and the police with it.

 

 

4 armed policemen, three others and a dog handler eventually disarmed him (it was a replica gun)

and he was detained under section 2 of the mental health act.

After one month this was upgraded to section 3.

 

His sister has put the apartment up for sale with a view to finding the poor chap more suitable accommodation.

 

It has left many of the residents mentally traumatised and nervous.

Some have had to leave for a while and some are under their doctors for nerves and heart problems.

Some will still not even leave their apartment.

 

We have now been told that he is to come back under section 17,

initially for an assessment with a view to returning.

 

Obviously residents are now even more terrified after assuming he would not be back

and more suitable accommodation would have been found for him during the 10 weeks he has been absent.

 

His sister has told us she cannot look after him because she is scared of him

and there is not enough room for her and her husband and brother in their three bedroomed house.

The sister is breaking the rules of the lease by allowing an unsuitable tenant in her property

who cannot look after himself.

 

Our managing agent will not get involved,

The police have met us and explained that we cannot lock him out.

 

Our question is

what rights do we have,

His sister has refused to house him with her but it appears we cannot refuse to house him with us

even though he does not own the property.

Why can his sister do this and yet we cannot,

 

We fully understand that there has to be anti discrimination laws

but this appears to be discriminating against us.

 

The mental health unit have assured us that they feel he is OK to come back.

If that is the case, he should be OK to live with his sister.

 

Where are we going wrong with out thoughts and is there anything we can do to safeguard the health

of the other 70 residents who live here?

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Hi Noebys,

 

Sorry to hear the troubles you are having, I've moved this thread to our Residential Lettings forum as you may receive more help there.

 

Regards,

 

Scott.


 
 

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Hi

 

This is such a difficult position to be in especially after what has happened.

 

Now I am not defending this individuals actions but as we are unaware of there mental health condition there could be reasons that they may have reacted the way they did i.e.

 

If on medication and this has been changed and they have reacted badly to it or

 

there has been a change to there daily routine.

 

this is just an example as I am no expert in this area but what the Mental Health Unit are trying to do is help/assit/treat this individual so that they can integrate back into the community.

 

Have the Residents had any meetings with the Police/Mental Health Unit to air their concerns? ( I think it may be worth considering contacting both so the residents

can air their concerns and hopefully they will ease those concerns)

 

Now you say they are coming back under section 17 is "Leave of absence when detained in hospital" see link below for more on the different sections:

http://www.mentalhealthcare.org.uk/mental_health_act#Leave_of_absence_when_detained_in_hospital_ndash_Section_17

 

Now I know you mentioned the Managing Agent but do you have the Freeholders details who has Employed them?

 

Also the clause in the lease you refer to could you possibly type that clause here (minus any personal details)?

 

Something the Residents need to check is that they are not getting invoiced by the Managing Agent for any repairs to i.e. communal areas caused by this individual.

 

What the Residents not as a group but individually need to do is keep a written log of every single incident no matter how small and as well as logging it at the same time report to Managing Agent, Police (so it's logged), Mental Health Unit & Local Councils Anti Social Behaviour Team. (The PDF below may be of use)

Incident Log-with form fields -----.pdf


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Hello there. I do feel for the other residents.

 

stu007 knows far more about property issues than I do, but I had a couple of thoughts. Is there a minimum age for people who buy/rent these apartments and if so, is this man over the required age?

 

Possibly not relevant, but why does the sister own an apartment in a retirement block as well as having a house?

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Thank you for your reply.

There is a minimum age and this man is over that age. However he has a diagnosed mental age of 9 according to his sister.

 

The story that the sister has told us is that when Mum and Dad died money was left in a trust for this poor man. So his sister bought the apartment in a independent living retirement rather than seeking the help he needs! The apartment is in her name.

 

His sister has now agreed it is not the right place for him and has put the flat on the market. Although everyone agrees it is not right for him, the Responsible Clinician in the Mental Heath Department has deemed that it is the correct place for him to return to, even though residents will unfortunately be hostile towards him!

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Thank you for your reply

 

I think without exception all residents here feel desperately sorry for this poor man. Sorry to put it bluntly but he has been 'dumped' here by his sister without any thought for his welfare, or ours. There may well be changes in his life that caused this, but what happens when changes happen again?

 

As detailed to Honeybee13 he is not an owner or a tenant with a shorthold lease. He is living free in his sisters flat in an independent living retirement development (which his trust paid for!) and has a diagnosed mental age of 9.

 

I agree that what the Mental Health Unit are trying to do is help/assist/treat this individual so that they can integrate back into the community. But I think they may need treatment themselves if they think that putting him back into a hostile situation is the way to do it! What better way than to put him back with his sister who has a house large enough to accommodate him. She appears to have the right to say 'No' on the basis she is afraid of him. Why can't we have this same right? His sister has now agreed that this is not the correct place for him and has put the flat on the market. So to integrate him back in the community, what better way than for him to live with her until a more appropriate place is found for him?

 

The most traumatised residents have had meetings with the police, but have not been offered victim support or anything similar. The Mental Health unit will not talk to us, only the police.

 

We have contacted both Managing Agents and Freeholders (both of whom are well known national concerns) with, as yet, no response.

 

The part of the lease that we refer to is copied below:

 

(2) Other than to an assignee or underlessee who shall be over the age of fifty five years at the date of any such assignment underletting or parting with or sharing of possession of the whole of the Dwelling with the exception of a married couple where one spouse only may be under the age of fifty five years pror.ided that such spouse is over the age of fifty years and who shall if required by the Lessor produce to the Lessor a medical certificate indicating that such assignee or underlessee is physically fit and capable of carrying out the obligations and requirements of the Lessee under this Lease save that the Lessor reserves the right to grant consent on such conditions as it may deem necessary to the assignment or underletting of the whole of the Dwelling to a person under the age of fifty five years for the continuous occupation thereof by a person or persons older than that age but subject to the proviso as to married couples above mentioned

 

Thank you for the reminder of checking the invoices from the Managing Agent. We are told we are not being charged, but we not got a copy of who paid it.

 

The written log form is very useful - thankyou. There have been logs kept of incidents but this will formalise it.

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Sorry - think I replied to you on Honeybee13!

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Couple of other links for you:

 

Solve a residential property dispute: https://www.gov.uk/housing-tribunals/overview

 

First-tier Tribunal (Property Chamber): https://www.gov.uk/courts-tribunals/first-tier-tribunal-property-chamber


How to Upload Documents/Images on CAG - **INSTRUCTIONS CLICK HERE**

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I cannot give any advice by PM - If you provide a link to your Thread then I will be happy to offer advice there.

I advise to the best of my ability, but I am not a qualified professional, benefits lawyer nor Welfare Rights Adviser.

Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

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