Napier FCN June 2016 - Failure to display ticket - How should i respond?

[Cj_68]

Hello, first post here

 

having read through other threads.

I received a FCN from Napier after parking at Willen Lake,

 

i bought a ticket and it appeared to have blown off my dash into the footwell of my car.

I returned to my car to find an FCN on the windscreen asking for payment of £80

or a reduced charge of £45 if paid within 14 days.

 

I appealed to Napier through their online procedure explaining this situation and attaching a picture of my ticket.

However they responded with a letter attached to an email stating that

because i failed to ensure the ticket was displayed that im still expected to pay.

 

In this letter though, it now says they will accept a £25 payment as a show of good will.

Very simply should i just accept this and pay them,

or is ignoring further correspondence the best route to take?

[ericsbrother]

You should NEVER respond to a ticket on the car,

always wait for the notice to keeper as doing what you have done

has now removed most of the protection the PoFA gives you.

 

If the car park is somewhere you can get to easily post up a picture of the signage at the car park

and we will take it from there.

 

 

They offer you that discount because they know they havent suffered a loss

and probably dont have a claim against you if their signage doesnt specifically mention

the display of the receipt for paying the prescribed fee to park.

 

get back to us with pictures of the signage fairly pronto so you can respond to thier offer accordingly.

[Cj_68]



 

I hope that has worked. Sorry for the slow reply, I hope the quality is good enough to read the sign. If not I will happily write out what is says..

 

Many thanks for your help on this matter.

[ericsbrother]

well, there is no definiton of what they mean by clearly display a ticket.

so it would be considered "de minimis" by any sensible judge as you have obviously paid and displayed the ticket so no loss can have occurred to the parking co.

 

Next question is

where is this sign relative to the entrance to the car park and are there any other signs?

 

 

Reason I ask is often there is a very vague or unitelligible sign at the entrance and then more detailed signs near ticket machines.

 

 

Well, the sign at the entrance, if it refers to other signs or unspecified conditions, isnt a contract but an "invitation to treat" and can be ignored, the same way as you are entitled to ignore a sign that says "all goods up to 50% off.

 

 

That doesnt force you to acually buy anything, just inform you that there is a sale and that you are then expected to make further considerations as to whether the item is reduced by an amount that would lead to an offer of purchase. The shopkeeper cant force you to buy someihing just beacuse you looked at the label.

 

Further to that, how many signs and are any of them different?

does the ticket machine have any terms on it as this sign doesnt give a tariff so may well not be an offer of a contract.

 

All of these points are beyond the understanding of the parking cowboys and even if they did know the difference they arent going to tell you as they lose most of their oncome if people realised that they didnt have to pay a bean because the signage is rubbish.

 

I note that the sign says terms and conditions apply so they must refer to somehting aqnd that means this isnt an offer of a contract so the "invitation to treat" defence will work.

 

Now.

did Napier give you a POPLA code on the letter and tell you how to appeal to the "independent" assessors?

 

 

If not my advice is to ignore them until they write again and then tell them that they have failed to follow the protocols of the PoFA and that will prevent them from taking any legal action as it will fall at the first hurdle.

 

 

So, take note of the above and when they write again tell us and we will suggest a form of words that will hopefully put and end to this matter.

[Cj_68]

Wonderful, the sign pictured above is the only one that the parking "cowboy" (love that by the way),

entered in his pictute evidence.

 

The car park is just down the road from me so i will go back tomorrow

(as i go every week due to playing football at the Lake),

i will look for further sinage and post that to you.

 

On the email reply from them after my appeal they do mention i can go through an independant appeal procedure.

[ericsbrother]

BUT DID THEY GIVE YOU A POPLA CODE? if they didnt they cant start any legal action without automatically losing for not following the procedures.

[Cj_68]

Here is the sign at the entrance of the car park and the signage on the ticket machine. There are multiple copies of the previously posted sign dotted around the car park no other different signs are visible.

 

Also attached is my "Fixed Charge Notice" which does not appear to have a POPLA code?

 

Sorry to double post but i thought this e-mail may also be of interest. It is their reply to my initial appeal.

[ericsbrother]

you wont get a POPLA code because the IAS doesnt force the issuing of a code

as they dont actually obey any rules that are considered fair.

 

 

However, as they are IAS members and their signage says BPA it isnt compliant

so they wont get one over on you in procedural matters.

 

The signage says nothing about HOW the ticket should be displayed

so as long as you keep the ticket safe then they are onto a hiding to nothing as there is no material breach of contract,

just their pique that you displayed your ticket in the footwell of the car.

 

So, how to respond?

Dont.

 

 

Let them chase you and spend their money making fools of themselves

but at the last minute send them or thier solicitors a letter telling them that you know their claim is flawed because ..

.. and state the above points and say that any claim will be vigourously defended as being vexatious.

 

 

That is a long way away at the moment, Napier tend to be toothless tigers.

[Cj_68]

Well that sounds very good to me. If that would actually stand against them then wonderful I'll follow that line. I'll await any further correspondence and update when I receive it. Many thanks so far

[Cj_68]

Just received another e-mail letter.

 

 

It's an interesting one.

(Note it's a screen shot of the main body of the letter as I am using my phone to post at the moment.

 

I don't understand why they are being so unreasonable after the fact I've bought and produced a ticket..

 

 

.how is even £25 fair in the case of a ticket only costing £0.90 for the period of time I was there?

 

 

They've made no loss, they already have £0.90 of my money, now they want more than 25x that :')

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

Can I just ask who the letter is from please? It sounds like sabre-rattling to me, but the forum regulars will tell you more.

 

HB

[Cj_68]

The letter is from Napier "enforcement team"

[dx100uk]

convert anything you attach to PDF please

and follow the upload

[dx100uk]

and that letter is a load of ole bull.

[Cj_68]

I just want to confirm whether you think that "clause" and terms and conditions won't help Napier?

[ericsbrother]

OOOO scary.

They are obviously desperate and also have nothing better to do than trawl around

looking for their name being mentioned so they can get some free advice on how to do their job.

Block their email address and report them to your service provider for harassment.

 

The fact they are in a transition between the BPA and the IPC doesnt affect you,

that is their problem that they cannot comply with the law!

 

The fact they are offering you the opportunity to be rooked of £25

instead of their normal fee of around £100 tells you a great deal.

 

 

Any contarct that you are supposed to read as you drive past that has a clause numberd 7c

isnt going to impress a judge that it is clear and thus valid.

 

 

they are wrong about even this being a contractual condition though,

the contract is the sign at the entrance and that doesnt have a clause 7c.

 

 

Anything on the ticket machine is just graffiti legally speaking

as it isnt part of the offer you were made and accepetd when driving in and parking.

 

 

You will have had to have already parked to read the ticket machine scribble

so unless they have a ticket machine in the centre of a roundabout that has words about a foot high

( gosh that will be a very big machine to get all of the milliards of pettifogging detail on)

then their threats and assertions are worthless.

 

Obviously, if they want to get someone to write a proper unilateral contract for them

perhaps they should see a solicitor.

 

 

I'm sure that Gladstones or SCS or Miahs could pen something.

they are so good at screwing up their clients court cases they would no doubt welcome tha change.

[Cj_68]

They really are frustrating aren't they? Thanks very much for the help.

[Fudster]

What's the update Cj_68