Mobile Phone Cashback - phones 2 u direct

[analyst]

Ah, the old cashback [problem] - what a well trodden path eh?

 

As most posts in here tend to run along the lines of "Help" after the event I thought I'd be different and run it from up front for a change.

 

I got two phones earlier this year from Phones 2 U Direct - notorious [problematic]. However, they have been trading (albeit unscrupulously) for years so they are not classic fly-by-night's.

 

My first 6 month cashback date is looming soon, so I am trying to pre-empt any smart moves by them.

 

I have prepared my claim letter with the precise information specified in their T & C's.

 

I have the original invoice from them at the ready.

 

I am waiting for the critically dated bill to arrive. It will be dated on day 181 since connection - their T & C's say first bill after day 180.

 

It is well known that Phones 2 U Direct are notorious liars and cheats. They will usually try one of two tactics.

a) say the wrong bill was sent, end of claim

or

b) deny the bill/other documents were in with the claim letter (an outright lie, but once you have sent it you've lost it)

 

To pre-empt the above, I intend to have the contents verified by a Magistrate before sealing and sending by recorded delivery. It just so happens that my next door neighbour is a JP

 

I note that their T & C's have changed since I first dealt with them. However, I have kept a print-out of the earlier version in place at that time.

They used to give a 14 day claims window, and say payment will be made in 28 days (Ha! is that a joke?)

 

Now it gives a 21 day claims window and says payment in 45 days (in your dreams)

So it is my intention to hold them to that 28 days before hitting them with an LBA as I believe they can't change the T & C's I originally agreed to in mid term.

 

Is there anything else ye wise and experienced ones care to advise me about?

I smell a court action brewing here.

[buzby]

Good for you.

 

I think you've covered all the bases - since they rely on users tripping up on their claims, they're going to be very upset when they trip up over yours!

[barracad]

I think you've missed what is arguably the most important point - the letter should be sent Special Delivery (not Recorded) as this will guarantee the item to arrive within their 14 day deadline.

 

If you want to cover yourself incase the letter does go missing/get delayed, you would also need to take out the optional Consequential Loss insurance at the time of posting (different to the standard compensation cover and you may need to tell the clerk in the Post Office to look it up!)

 

I don't feel it's necessary to get a JP to witness it, but if it's of no trouble to you and it makes you feel better then go for it!

[buzby]

I think you've missed what is arguably the most important point - the letter should be sent Special Delivery (not Recorded) as this will guarantee the item to arrive within their 14 day deadline.

 

The problem here is the cost - assuming you pay the additional fees as required, this will eat into any cashback pot, and the usual caveat that proof of posting is not proof of delivery, would be served by RD or SD. Even if the OP took it round and handed it over (with a witness) there's still no real guarantee unless they sign for it too. If they're going to wriggle out of it, there a cost limit on when these things become more bother than they're worth!

[barracad]

I agree, but if he's claiming back, for example, £60 then it would be worth spending an extra £3 or £4 to make sure he is guaranteed to get it back. He would then get proof of delivery and a guarantee that the item would arrive on time.

 

Sending it by Recorded Delivery could be a gamble, Special Delivery would give peace of mind.

[analyst]

I don't feel it's necessary to get a JP to witness it

True, its not necessary, but as its no trouble . . .

 

FWIW I wear my self-supporting trousers with belt, braces, heavy duty baling twine and skyhooks :o

 

anyway, what do you do if these liars just brazenly say "the document wasn't included, end of claim", and they do that, because they will insist it has to be original and they've just binned your only one?

 

Its also a little warning shot across their bows to say "I mean business"

[barracad]

anyway, what do you do if these liars just brazenly say "the document wasn't included, end of claim", and they do that, because they will insist it has to be original and they've just binned your only one?

 

If it was me, I'd sue them! As long as I can prove that it was received and I'd kept copies then I would have a strong argument. If it reached a court case, do you think the judge would believe that I had gone to all the trouble of sending the item by Special Delivery just to send them an empty envelope?

 

Anyway, with the precautions you're taking then there won't be any need for that! Send it by Special Delivery with the relevant compensation cover and you've covered all bases.

[macrane1]

I had huge problems with phones2u direct. I misread the t's and c's and sent in my cashback claim a month early. Nearly two months later i got a letter saying that my claim had been sent in error and that if I wanted to claim my cashback I would have to resubmit my claim within 14 days of receiving the correct bill. Trouble was I received the letter after the deadline had passed, and what didn't surprise me was that the letter was dated about a week earlier! (must have taken them a while to post it...).

 

Is there anything I can do to get my £360 back, bearing in mind I have all the correspondence from them. I'm not holding my breath.

 

Thanks

 

Matthew

[buzby]

Sadly no, these schemes are designed specifically to catch the unwary and prevent them from benefiting from the discount. As it was your error in not complying to the precise terms and conditions, it comes as no surprise that they processing rtesulted in you missing the 'real' deadline.

 

The only routes are (a) write back and appeal, but if you realise the whole point of the promotion is to discourage claimants, you can see where they might be relictant to be sympathetic. (b) Threaten them with court action. THis remains a possibility, however they could argue it was you that was negligent and they have paid out to everyone who has correctly followed their instructions.

 

If you have further claims to make, then hopefully the T&Cs will not bar you from making those, but the usual advice is these Cashback schemes are a promotional [problem] and not worth the paper they are written on.

[demon_x_slash]

Did the OP get hir cashback after all that? SD, signed by a JP, sealed in a titanium envelope...?

[buzby]

I think the pursuer needs titanium Y-fronts as the retailers are not slow in throwing problems (Kong-style) in their path. With their goal being NOT to meet claims, its easy to see why so many are unsatistfied, as there is no common goal for both parties.

[analyst]

OK guys and guyesses, here's the result:

 

(sorry for somewhat of a delay responding here but I had this silly idea of taking a holiday in Egypt for some winter sunshine - been a holiday from hell, glad to get back in, barely, one piece - but that may be the subject for another thread in due course)

 

Just before I left for said H-f-H, I received a cheque for . . . ta-da, £245 which is the precise first ⅓ payment and now firmly banked.

 

This was actually earlier than the full term of 28 working days in their T & C's (now shows 45 total days in T & C ver 3.5).

 

I wonder if that was anything to do with the fact that I called them in the middle of December and politely reminded them the payment would soon be due and that it was my intention to play them at their own game i.e. if they dare go just one day over their own payment period I shall pursue them immediately with court action.

 

 

Now from above

Busby: If you have further claims to make, then hopefully the T&Cs will not bar you from making those

Phones 2U Direct T & C's do state:

Where a cashback is claimed in instalments, claims for subsequent instalments are dependent on acceptance of the previous claim.

So it looks like they've got that sewn up too, bar-stewards!

[buzby]

Now from above Phones 2U Direct T & C's do state:

Where a cashback is claimed in instalments, claims for subsequent instalments are dependent on acceptance of the previous claim.

So it looks like they've got that sewn up too, bar-stewards!

 

Why am I not surprised? Well, at least the cash is flowing and it's on to the next one. I do still think that anyone entering into any cashback deal should be prepared to lose it or spend lots of time pursuing it, with the distinct possibility that it will go pear-shaped before the final payment is made.

[ukmp3]

I too have had the same problems with phones2u and so issued court action via MCOL.

 

Phones2u have entered a defence and it is being transfered to my local court. Any one had this happen before?

 

Thanks

[r0cknr0ll]

Hi there, I am in the process of taking this company to court. I sent all my documents at the correct time but they have come up with the brainwave of saying that I only sent 4 pages of my bill instead of 10. I would be obliged if anyone could help me with filling in the court documents and advising me how to word it professionally.....

[buzby]

This isn't always a recommended course of action, for a variety of reasons. Which network is your mobile connected to? 3UK have started fighting for their customers against dealers operating in this way.

[ukmp3]

Firstly you need to ensure they have had the first page of the contract monthly bill - this confirms the connection.

 

Secondly make sure the court has all the info they require.

 

Phones2u settled out of court for 60% of the claim, so making them an offer (I would start at 80%) and offering to settle will look good from your side in court. They wont go for 80% they will try to beat you down, but it is worth reminding them that they wont get their costs back and going to court for them (legal rep etc) is expensive even if they win!

 

Hoe much is the claim for and how many cash back claims are outstanding?

 

If you need more help please PM me

[Pinky J]

I to have been well and truly stung by this company. Myself and my husband took out a cash back offer the same deal as you all describe. Unfortunately I only sent the front page of both mine and my husbands billing invoice. Mine arrived 1 day late due to not recieving it fromO2 in time and my husbands did arrive in the 21 days stipulated. They of course rejected our claims. I did appeal but they said as my invoice was incomplete and 1 day late they refused. They also went on and refused my husbands saying it was incomplete. Sending the 9 month bill off all correct and in time I have today recieved as letter rejecting my husbands due to the following also

 

Where a cashback is claimed in instalments, claims for subsequent instalments are dependent on acceptance of the previous claim.

 

This has made me so mad. I'm sure a rejection letter will follow for my 9 month claim. This is a lot of money to loose £720 with both contracts.

Is it worth me taking this to small claims not that we can afford to do this. Is it worth writing to them threatening court action?

Please Help

Thanks

[buzby]

As I've noted in other and similar threads, these deals are structured specifically to permit rejection, and is purely a marketing ploy to ensure people sign up and redemption is difficult if not impossible.

 

The trouble with most of these companies, they're using fly-by-night tactics and are often here today and gone tomorrow, so with spending money on court action and subsequent due diligence, you may simply be throwing good money after bad, with no reasonable expectation of ever having the debt satisfied.

 

This always assumes a judge takes your side - many will accept that you did not complete the full terms are required under the arrangement and strike out the action.

 

It's a hard lesson to learn - but if you hear the word 'cashback' it is often better to just keep walking...

[TwiggyB123]

I've got a mobile from Phones 2 U Direct, and I sent away my first cashback claim in May.

However, I received a letter from them today to say my claim has been rejected because I "sent in the invoice previous to the one needed to claim".

I sent bills 1 to 6, as the terms and conditions state "send the complete original postal network for the month you are claiming for".

As far as I'm concerned, I was claiming for months 1 - 6, therefore I sent them bills 1 - 6.

I gather from their letter, that they only wanted bill 6 from me.

 

As far as I'm concerned, I feel I have still complied with the terms and conditions, as I gave them bill 6. The fact that I also sent bills 1 - 5 is irrelevant.

What do you think I should do? - do I have a leg to stand on?

[barracad]

If they wanted your sixth bill and you have sent it then you are quite right - they should accept your claim and the fact you have sent extra bills is irrelevant - as long as you have definitely sent the one they asked for.

 

Definitely complain about it, but I'm not sure how far it will get you - these companies will do absolutely anything to get out of paying and they will find any possible loophole they can. Ultimately, the only way to get your money may well be small claims action after you have exhausted all other options, but as already been stated - even this is no guarantee of ever getting hold of your cashback.

[buzby]

It really doesn't matter what you do - they'd are looking for ANY way to cancel your arrangement and any spurious excuse is fine by them. If you look at contributions from others, court action seldom achieves the desired results.

[analyst]

Two points here.

 

Yes, I am the OP, who had my documents verified by a JP (my next-door-neighbour) before posting - and a very wise move that turned out to be, as I'll explain in a mo.

 

But just to round off, I got ALL my cashback for 2 phones for the full 12 months from Phones 2 U Direct - but I'm sure it was only because I had them trussed up tighter than a Christmas turkey right from the start.

 

Do not take this full cashback refund as form of praise, I still believe they are gutter-snakes.

 

Around the various forums, fora, fori (take yer choice) it appears that it has become the norm for many/most of these snakes to reject claims on the basis of the old "missing document [problem]".

 

Standard line of refusal is: "your file has been checked and we have not received the page showing your tariff details"- a complete lie, but too late to dispute once they have binned your original documents, end of claims.

 

So, for this reason, I go back to my original post and strongly advise that you get your documents verified as all present and correct at time of sealing the envelope, and that you let them know you have done that.

 

In my case I actually put a sheet in with the first claim, signed and dated by the JP, confirming the contents. Every subsequent claim included a line in my letter reminding them that the contents had been verified as previously.

 

I got all my claims paid, and generally without delay too.

 

EDIT:

Sorry, forgot my second point.

Do NOT count "months of billing", these can sometimes be confusing.

The T & C's will normally say something like "send the bill for the 6th month, normally the first bill after 180 days."

 

Count those bloody days on a calendar to get it spot on - be advised. A day before 180 will not count, even if it appears to be the 6th month (or whatever).

[jh787]

I too have had the same problems with phones2u and so issued court action via MCOL.

 

Phones2u have entered a defence and it is being transfered to my local court. Any one had this happen before?

 

Thanks

 

I issued proceedings against this company about a year ago.

They sent me a cheque on the final day of their 14 day allowance before it went to court.

I did send them a detailed letter about all the evidence i had which included letters and emails i sent with recorded proof of delivery.

 

The attached compliment slip said something along the lines of " sorry for the inconvenience"

I am thinking of getting another phone off them as it was quite fun chasing them and beating them at their own game.

 

My advice is to complete the terms and condition and claim all cashbacks as normal even if they havent paid for previous months and make a claim for the full amount at the end.

[mwacuk]

Hi am I in danger of not receiving my cash back? I have had a mobile with orange for the last year (contract sold to me from phones4u) anyway i had a call from a guy from phones 4u about a 3 weeks ago stating my current contract was due to end in Jan 09 and offered me an upgrade. I took up the offer as i will only have 1 and a half overlapping bills (so not major problem) anyway he advised he would arrange for a cheque for 95pounds to be sent to me 30 days later (ive recorded this on my mobile) i have the new phone now. The contract is completely verbal, have they anyway of wiggling out of sending me a cheque?

cheers