Unknown transactions - Barclays made a mess of it

[azzadle]

Hi,

 

Recently I'd noticed a lot of transactions when checking my online banking to a company I'd never heard of, approx 19 transactions in total for small amounts, gradually getting larger. Started off with £10 then increasing to £40, £50 etc. It had been done through my paypal account to a company called SJU limited which they say is a website called Stan James, a betting site registered in Gibraltar.

 

I have ONE online account and that's with Betfair. I have also in the past used other online sites to take advantage of free offers for matched betting, and I fear that's worked against me.

 

I phoned Barclays to report this and they re-credited my account with £191 and said there were further transactions I'd have to wait to clear before they could do anything about. I then phone again to report the same issue and on the third occasion the advisor said 'I can see your previous cases have been deemed as fraudulent so that money is yours', which was great to hear. However 4 days later, I get a letter stating I'm liable for the full amount and they'll be re-debiting my account.

 

I was abroad twice when some of these transactions occurred - Spain and Holland from 25-28th April then 13-16th May, during which time I've not had internet access.

 

For the first lot of transactions though, the second advisor told me the first advisor shouldn't have credited me back as it was done through Paypal and to contact them. Paypal say there hasn't been a breach of security, stating the IP addresses were the same. I'm not sure how this is possible as only 2 of us live here and we were both abroad..

 

PP referred me back to the bank, who then credited me back the money but as menionted have now re-debited it. Their letter states 'because of your previous dealings with this company' - I have NEVER used them before, and have challenged Barclays to go through every statement to confirm this as I know I'm right.

 

I'm utterly stuck as to what to do. I have a complaint raised with Barclays but for the meantime my account is sat hundreds of pounds overdrawn and I've got bills to pay, they're refusing to help until they've concluded their investigation.

 

I have no idea how, who, or why my details have been taken but I understand this happens, Lloyds dealt with it very swiftly back in 2009 but that was only for £45.

 

Any advice would be greatly appricated.

[liverpoolluke]

do you have a paypal account ? can you see the transaction's in your paypal account ? could someone have access to your wifi when your away ?

[slick132]

Hi Azzadle.

 

The FCA are clear that disputed transactions must be refunded immediately unless the bank " ......... has evidence that there is a reason to refuse a refund........ "

 

See here and read the article - https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiohdy18ovNAhXHJsAKHXsJDD0QFggrMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fca.org.uk%2Fconsumers%2Ffinancial-services-products%2Fbanking%2Fyour-rights%2Funauthorised-payments&usg=AFQjCNE62LtGkMmqN7pLoo5rphOtoXsXvw

 

Keep dealings in writing only from now on so you have evidence of what's said by either party.

 

I'd complain to Barclays London HQ citing the FCA guidance and asking for the evidence they that you've ever dealt with this company before. Assumed guilt because you bet online in the past is hardly convincing.

 

I have a complaint raised with Barclays

 

If this was just done over the phone, it is unlikely to lead to a good result IMHO. If this is causing you immediate financial difficulties, I'd go to the London HQ immediately by letter, or email, to the CEO.

 

[azzadle]

I shall indeed do that. It's left me minus several hundred pounds so I'm currently shafted. Thabks for the advice

[azzadle]

On the phone to them now, their excuse is 'because you have a Paypal account' that makes me liable for the transactions.

 

I also have a car, am I solely responsible for global warming?

[slick132]

As suggested above, I'd stay off the phone and put the complaint in writing.

 

[azzadle]

No response at all. Emailed Jes Staley who promised a response by the 22nd..

[slick132]

1. Who did you contact.

 

2. At what address.

 

3. By letter or email.

 

4. What did you say to them.

 

By this time, I'd have made an urgent complaint to The FOS for the bank's failure to abide by the FCA requirement to refund immediately.

 

[azzadle]

Jes Staley at his email address and got a response from Laura McGuigan the next day.

 

Explained as above and the contact poor service from Barclays. No matter who I discuss this with they all casually ignore the fact they need to refund me.

 

Basically she said i'll get a response by the 22nd. Called her today and she's out of office until the 4th of July!

 

Nobody seems to want to deal with this.

[slick132]

I'd fire a further complaint to Jes Staley's email address saying you were promised a response from Laura McGuigan by 22nd June, heard nothing, and now learn she's away until 4th July.

 

I'd also call the FOS saying you've been left without funds due to Barclays failure to comply with FCA rules about the refund of unauthorised transactions.

 

If you are still suffering financially due to this, ask the FOS to intervene urgently on your behalf.

 

[azzadle]

Barclays responded today. They say the issue lies with Paypal and not them but have offered £300 compensation for the dreadful handling of my complaint.

 

Jeeez.

[slick132]

When you spoke to Paypal about the transactions, was it all done by phone or was anything in writing. Unless you record the phone calls, stay OFF the phone or you'll have no proof of what was said.

 

Can you say a bit more about the transactions, so I understand better about the relationship between PP, Barclays and the payee.

 

Paypal is not a strongpoint of mine so I hope others will comment.

 

[azzadle]

I actually first phoned them BUT i have voice recorded so all my calls are recorded. PP told me to dispute the transactions in my resolution centre which I did but 2 hours later they rejected my claim saying the IP address the claim was made from was identical to the one the transactions were made from. No idea how this is possible.

[slick132]

Hi Azza,

 

You've not really replied to the 2nd paragraph in my post above and it'll help me if you do so.

 

Thanks

[azzadle]

Sorry, was so tired last night.

 

The payments went to SJU Limited registered in Gibraltar also known as Stan James. I do not and never have had an account with them. Barclays have ultimately denied any responsibility and told me to go back to PP. There were approx 17 transactions between 18th April and 15th May.

 

Spoke to PP today (again, recorded call) and they said their fraud system is very advanced and they see no evidence of third party access. They say the logins are consistent from the same IP address (which I highly doubt, had PP since 2004 and moved house 3 times in that period) and told me to ask the bank for a chargeback. He even had the cheek to say 'well if the bank are refusing you, why would we say any different?' !!

[slick132]

Looking for insight into how the transactions work, I found this Dummies Guide - http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/how-does-paypal-work.html

 

It may be a USA site but it says :-

 

How to send money

 

PayPal breaks types of payments into categories based on what you’re paying for. You can pay for almost anything in the world on the PayPal system (as long as the recipient has an e-mail address). A few things that you can’t pay for with PayPal include most items related to gambling, adult content or services, and buying or selling prescription drugs from noncertified sellers.

 

I've asked for comment from others as I know too little about PP to properly help you here.

 

[stu007]

You need to immediately change their paypal account password (if you haven't already done so, also consider doing this with all your passwords)

 

Report this to Actionfraud: http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/

 

Any device that they use to access their paypal account they need to run full virus/spam/malware scans urgently.

 

In your first post you mention you only noticed after doing online banking, did you also receive a paypal notification of the payments?

 

What is the timeline between the different transactions?

[Mr.P]

Looking for insight into how the transactions work, I found this Dummies Guide - http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/how-does-paypal-work.html

 

Not sure about that. Having read PayPal's T&C page: https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full?locale.x=en_GB the only reference I can see for gambling comes under section 13.4.a.9

 

13.4 Conditions for reimbursement

You may be reimbursed under PayPal Buyer Protection for a problem with a purchase only if all of the following requirements are met:

 

1. Your purchase is an eligible purchase. Purchases of most goods and services are eligible (including travel tickets, intangible items such as rights of access to digital content and other licences), except for purchases of the following :
   
   9. any wager (whether by way of backing or laying against any outcome or otherwise) and any other opportunity to benefit from a gambling activity.
   
   

   
   

 

From that, I take it to mean any transaction related to gambling is excluded from the buyer protection scheme, but not specifically a prohibited transaction.