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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 162 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Received a Court Claim From A Private parking Speculative invoice?? - How To Deal With It HERE***Updated Dec 2021***


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..You have received a claim form for Private Land Parking Enforcement.

Firstly - read all of this post...then copy this first part to your topic - and put your answer after each question

one important point:

YOU MUST NOT MISS FILING YOUR DEFENCE BY DAY 33 From the date top right of the claimform. 

In order for us to help you we require the following information:-

 

copy and paste ____________________________________________________________________copy and paste

 

Which Court have you received the claim from ?

  1. MCOL Northampton N1 ?
  2. Manual Claim CCMCC (Salford) ?
  3. New beta WWW.MONEYCLAIMS.SERVICE.GOV.UK ?

If possible please scan redact and upload a full page copy of page 1 of the claim form. (not the response page or AOS)

Name of the Claimant :           

Claimants Solicitors: (if one is stated)

 

Date of issue – (top right hand corner of the claim form – this in order to establish the time line you need to adhere to.)

 

Date for AOS - (you must complete an Acknowledge Of Service upon receipt of the claimform on the MCOL website - this deadline is calculated by adding 19 calendar days to the date of issue - ( 5 day for service + 14 days to AOS) - carefully note that the date on the claimform is ONE in the count.)

Date to submit Defence - (you add a further 14 calendar days to the AOS date - note: should this date fall on a W/End, you must file by 4pm Friday)

[NOTE : WHEN CALCULATING YOUR TIMELINE - PLEASE REMEMBER THAT THE DATE ON THE CLAIMFORM IS ONE IN ANY COUNT [an example: Issue date 01.03.2020: + 19 days  = 19.03.2020 :+ 14 days to submit defence = 02.04.2020: a total of 33 days]

What is the claim for the reason they have issued the claim? Please type out their particulars of claim (verbatim) less any identifiable data and round the amounts up/down.

(Particulars of Claim are in the box to the left of the N1 page 1)

**IMPORTANT** WE NEED TO SEE THE FULL POC MINUS YOUR PERS DETAILS>> NOT AN ABRIDGED VERSION**THIS MUST INCLUDE THE LOCATION

What is the value of the claim?

Amount Claimed 

court fees 

legal rep fees 

Total Amount 

Have you moved since the issuance of the PCN? (y/N - if Y state Date too)

Did you receive a letter of Claim With A reply Pack wanting I&E etc about 1mth before the claimform? Y/N + date and did you reply?

 

^^^^^^^copy and paste the above to your topic^^^^^^^

 

What you need to do now.

 

Answer the questions above

 

Acknowledge service of the claim..this can be done on line by registering to use the MCOL service..your password is already providing on the claim form.

You have 19 days to do this from the date on the claim form (that being day 1) and state your intended plea.

get this CPR running to the named solicitors or the claimant if one is not mention..

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/409718-cpr-3114-request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-ppc-private-land-parking-court-claim/

 

If you are not planning on defending for one reason or another – then you will need to complete an Income and Expenditure form and contact the Solicitor with your proposal. The N9a is already enclosed in the claim pack for Admittance which should be sent to the solicitor named on the claim form

 

If you are considering making a partial admittance N9b must be completed and returned to the court.

Please note in most cases a partial admittance will result in an automatic CCJ for the amount admitted.

 

Further information on how to defend a claim

 

Given the number of claims issued by Private Parking Companies (PPC), we thought it would be useful to add practical information on how you actually go about defending and provide a template Defence.

 

Q1) Are these claims valid?

 

Most of these claims are very similar. They allege that a parking chargeicon is due under a contract between the driver and a Private Parking Company (PPC), and then seek to use the Protections of Freedom Act 2012 to pursue the registered keeper of the vehicle. Below I set out a short explanation of the main legal grounds for defending these claims.

 

- Penalty clauses – Under English law, penalty clauses designed to disproportionately punish a breach of contract are not enforceable. However it is now much more difficult to use this argument after the Supreme Court found that a charge of £85 for overstaying in a supermarket car park was justified. You can still try to claim a charge is a penalty in other environments though, as these have not been fully tested by the courts (for example if you are charged for parking in a residential road).

 

- Lack of contract – A recent tax case suggested that a parking company was not capable of entering into a contract with motorists because it did not have authority from the landlord to give the motorists the right to park. The company had authority to manage the car-park generally but this was not enough. Accordingly the Private Parking Company (PPC) should be put to proof that the landowner has given them proper authority to enter into a contract with the motorist.

 

- Parking charge not incorporated into the contract - This will be applicable where the signage was not clear or was not visible to the motorist until after he parked his car. This argument is based on the case Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking, where it was held that a carpark could not enforce a disclaimer on the back of a parking ticket, since a contract had already been formed before the ticket was provided.

 

- Unfair Contract Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations This provides that "A contractual term which has not been individually negotiated shall be regarded as unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer" … and if it meets that test it is not enforceable.

 

- Failure to comply with POFA - Private Parking Companies (PPC's) typically rely on the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, which basically allows them to pursue the registered owner of the vehicle for parking charges. Previously they could only chase the person who was driving at the time. The Act sets out a number of requirements before the registered owner may be pursued, contained in paragraphs 4, 5, 6, 11 and 12 of this link:

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4d.

 

- Proof of facts – If a Private Parking Company (PPC) allege that you entered and exited a given carpark at given times, it is their responsibility to prove this. In most cases a PPC tend to provide time stamped photographs, which makes this line of defence redundant.

 

Q2) How should I defend? NOTE YOU NEVER COUNTER CLAIM!

 

It may seem tempting to include a large number of legal points to dismantle the PPC's case.  However, experience has shown that this just gives the PPCs and their solicitors months & months to think up ways to counter your points.  It's not a good idea to play your cards too early.  Keep it brief.

 

Here is a template for a decent Defence. You need to fill in the square-brackets and make any amendments needed to suit your particular case. Please make sure you check the deadlines for filing this, which are explained on the claim form.

 

 

The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature which fails to comply with CPR 16.4.  The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

1.  The Defendant is the recorded keeper of [motor vehicle].

 

2.  It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant.

 

3.  As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance.  The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner.  Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 

 

4.  In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant.

 

5.  The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 

 

6.  The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety.  It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all.

 

 

This is only a template.  For example if the PPC has not invented extra fees you cannot use (5).

 

A generic defence of this type means that if the case proceeds to court, you can flesh out points (2) and (4) to include the legal points made in Q1).

 

If you can, adapt the defence to refer directly to the points in the PPC's Particulars of Claim.  A good example is in post 66 here  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/431494-vcs-spycar-pcn-paploc-now-claimform-no-stopping-47-stopping-in-a-restricted-bus-stop-stand-robin-hood-airport-doncaster/page/3/#comments

 

Q3) Will I have to go to court?

 

After you have filed a Defence the Private Parking Company (PPC) will need to file a Directions Questionnaire and pay a hearing fee to the court. In several cases the PPC have failed to pay the hearing fee resulting in the claim being struck out before it gets anywhere near a court room.

 

If a PPC decide to proceed with the case and pay the hearing fee, then the case will proceed to a hearing in the small claimsicon track. This should be held in your local county courticon. Small claims is designed to be used by people who do not have legal training so you should not feel scared or intimidated.

 

Q4) If it goes to court will I win?

 

The parking company will sometimes win if it is able to prove clear signage and when you entered/left the car park. However these companies often cannot provide proper evidence, they should be challenged if they can't or won't provide it. Many of these companies hope that most people do not know what to do or get scared, and will pay-up without a court claim ever being issued, even if they do not have proper evidence. As with all litigation there are no guarantees because it ultimately comes down to the decision of the judge on the day.

 

Q5) What is the risk if I lose?

 

If you lose, you will be liable for the parking charge plus £50 fixed costs, plus the £25 issue fee plus the hearing fee, in accordance with Parts 27 and 45 of the Civil Procedure Rules. Further legal costs are only awarded for small claims in exceptional circumstances. Once a claim has been issued they will be trying to claim the fixed cost and the issue fee back from you anyway, so I would always advise defending these claims.

 

Q6) What else can I do?

 

Complain to the landowner. Let them know the damage a Private Parking Companies (PPC's) tactics are causing to their business.

We could do with some help from you.

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  • 2 months later...

I have temporarily opened this sticky for further opinions as concerns have been raised with regards to the contents of the proposed defence..Once its been finalised and agreed I will remove any posts to a discussion thread.

 

Regards

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group - The National Consumer Service

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello - I've updated the sticky to take account of the decision in Beavis. The basic message is that it is much more difficult to defend these claims now on the ground that the charge is a penalty, but there are still other challenges which should be made (e.g. if the signage was unclear or the parking company can't prove when you entered/left the car park).

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EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

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  • AndyOrch changed the title to Received a Court Claim From A Private parking Speculative invoice?? - How To Deal With It HERE***Updated Dec 2021***
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