Passport required again or can't work

[bluestar83]

Hey folks we found out at work on Monday that we need to provide a birth certificate or passport or we can't work any shifts..I already provided this information when I started and again two or three years ago...can they do this? We've not had any written notification of the requirement or been told why they need it again...I'm assuming my identity has not changed...can they stop me working if I refuse to provide the info again...given its the same as what they already have?? Thanks all! !

[renegadeimp]

Can you give more info. What is your job, what nationality are you? Can you give some history on this?

[Bazooka Boo]

Is this Wetherspoons by any chance?

 

I believe they have been hauled over the coals in the city for employing those who were not eligible to work in this country.

 

I would think this is simply your employer (?) ensuring they don't fall foul of immigration laws?

[caro]

I see what you mean about you still being you, but just wondered why not just take it in?

 

My employers have always been very thorough checking ID and eligibility to work, but someone was investigated after working there 2 or 3 years and found to have false docs. Not sure, but I think it might have been hmrc found him out.

[Bazooka Boo]

.can they stop me working if I refuse to provide the info again...given its the same as what they already have?

 

In a word, yes!

[renegadeimp]

We really need more info to be able to give accurate advice. Right now its just general stuff.

[Ethel Street]

As others have said, hard to answer specifically without more detail. Behind all this though is that the government has made employers its front line immigration inspectors. Employers didn't want this foisted on them, but it was. If any employer is found to employing someone without the right to work in the UK they face severe criminal penalties. Unsurprisingly employers often adopt way over the top checking procedures to check and double check that that everyone they employ has the right to work in the UK, simply because they don't want to take the risk that inspectors from the immigration authorities could turn up and ask to see the passports and documentation of all employees and they don't have yours on file.

 

This isn't your employer being difficult for some reason of their own, they're just having their strings pulled by the Immigration authorities. They're just covering their backsides.

 

So the short answer to your question, in general, is yes the employer can insist on this, and if you refuse they can probably dismiss you. Not proving your right to work to work in the UK is a valid reason to dismiss someone.

 

Is there a problem in you providing it?

[Sidewinder]

Completely agree with all of the above. Most employers have to prove that they have conducted due diligence in obtaining proof of entitlement to work at the time of employment, but as some rights to work may expire or require renewal periodically, there is a need for those to be re-verified from time to time. Potential discrimination concerns prevent employers from checking only those whose nationality is not British, so the standard is for all employees to provide proof even where that right to work in the UK cannot possibly have changed.

 

As mentioned previously, this often happens after a large employer has been caught employing those without the necessary right to work and it tends to bring about a hurried check on everybody so that up to date records of checks made can be shown.

 

And yes, you can be prevented from working if you cannot provide proof of entitlement to work in the UK

[CrappoMan]

...Most employers have to prove that they have conducted due diligence in obtaining proof of entitlement to work at the time of employment, but as some rights to work may expire or require renewal periodically, there is a need for those to be re-verified from time to time. Potential discrimination concerns prevent employers from checking only those whose nationality is not British, so the standard is for all employees to provide proof even where that right to work in the UK cannot possibly have changed....

 

If you have provided your employer with a non-time-limited document, e.g: a uk passport or birth certificate, the employer has what is called a "statutory excuse" not to check your documents again.

 

The employer must periodically re-check any document which is on "list B", there is no discrimination and the re-checking cannot be used as grounds for greivance/complaint.

 

If the employer has lost the documents, there are also ID theft implications.

[bluestar83]

Hey folks thanks for the replies! I'm german born but have lived in the UK for most of my life...I've provided copies before to my employer having worked there since 2002...they cam str8 in with threats of not being able to work instead of just explaining why they wanted them...I also thought there would have been dpa issues? We were not told why they needed it and how long it will be held for?

[Guest topcat14]

Sounds a bit heavy handed, but the right to work needs to be proved by the employer if they are asked to by the Border Agency for instance. My view would be let them have the info. Additionaly you can ask for the info held about you under the dpa if you wish. All data holders have to follow specific guidelines to ensure that the data they hold about someone is only used for the specific purpose that they required to hold it.

[caro]

I don't believe you should let them keep hold of the documents. I'd expect them to want to see the originals and copy what they need for their purposes.

[Ethel Street]

...how long it will be held for?

 

The original document should be copied when you present it to your employer and not retained by them at all. The government guidance to employers on retaining copies is that they must keep them for the whole duration of your employment + 2 years after you have left. See page 14 of the guidance here

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/426964/an_employers_guide_to_right_to_work_checks_may_2015_final.pdf

[ericsbrother]

This is an example of one branch of the government making decisions that affect others without considetring the consequences. It is a criminal offence to copy a passport yet it is a requirement to do so under this legislation. previously the employer had to state that they had seen it and any visa that goes with it.

[Ethel Street]

It is a criminal offence to copy a passport .

 

It isn't. Not to photocopy it. Obviously it is to forge one and present it as an original.

 

========================================================

 

Reproducing the passport

 

3.1 Definition of copying

 

For the purposes of this guidance, the term copying includes:

 

• photocopying

• scanning

• filming

• reproduction in any other medium, including the placing of material on the internet

 

3.2 Record keeping

 

The UK Passport contains the personal details of the passport holder. HM Passport Office advises that:

 

• passport holders should record/photocopy the information on this page, and keep it securely, and separate from the passport. This will help the HM Passport Office to process an application for a replacement passport if the current passport is lost or is stolen

• passport holders should only agree to the reproduction of the personal details page in the passport if they are satisfied that the person, or organisation, will protect the copy from unauthorised disclosure

• unless there is a legal requirement, the organisations which require to retain a reproduction of the personal details in the passport, must first obtain the consent of the individual

• organisations should retain a record of the consent and should store the passport details securely

• photocopies of the personal details page of the passport may be made, for the purposes of record keeping only, by the following persons:

 the holder/owner of the passport

 notaries, solicitors, banks and government departments

 a person or institution subject to the requirements of the Money Laundering Regulations

 a person certifying that identification checks required under these Money Laundering Regulations have taken place

• where copies of the bio-data, observations or visa pages are required, copies may be taken in either black and white or colour, and may be held electronically or in paper format. The person or organisation taking the image must ensure that it complies with the Data Protection Act when holding personal information

• notarised or certified photocopies of passports are not acceptable as proof of identity

• only the original document may be used as evidence of identity; but a photocopy may be made to record the fact that identification checks have taken place. It is for organisations to ensure that they comply with requirements under legislation, and the information in this document does not seek to interpret legal requirements on the taking of copies of passports

 

3.3 Restrictions on reproduction

 

The image of the cover of the Passport including the Royal Arms, or the details pages of the Passport may not be used:

× as the main focus of the cover of a work, for example, the dust jacket or cover of a publication

× in advertising

× in facsimile form for use as a passport holder or cover

[fletch70]

It was a legitimate question FF , the advice has been given with an explanation. I can understand the poster being somewhat confused and aggrieved by the way their employer went about this.

[maroondevo52]

It was a legitimate question FF , the advice has been given with an explanation. I can understand the poster being somewhat confused and aggrieved by the way their employer went about this.

 

fletch FF's post has been 'unapproved'.