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    • There's one other card for just over £400 in my credit file. Three of the cards were taken out end of 2017 or beginning of 2018. The largest amount. That card was probably taken out early 2017 or sometime in 2016.   I've battled with a life long drink problem. Mixed with periods of heavy in the most part recreational drug use. I've been told I have mental health problems but nothing officially diagnosed.   I was made officially bankrupt 15-20 years ago. Not long after the year was up I started borrowing again because it was offered to me. I again reached the point where it all got out of control. I didn't have the money to declare myself bankrupt again so I just ignored it. A while after the 6 years were up I was offered another card and that was that.   I start out with good intentions of building my credit file back up. But then my 'issues' kick in and it all goes wrong. Addictions aside. I have a problem with spending money. I always have.   Basically no financial company should lend me money. That is blatantly obvious from my credit history and spending patterns on previous and the aforementioned cards.   I might have some more smaller debts not on my credit file. But to be totally honest I wouldn't know. I was too out of it to know or care.   Rather surprisingly given my credit history as  far as I'm aware this is the first time I've ever had a ccj against me. As I mentioned earlier not knowing much about bailiffs was my fear. Life is a lot easier for me if I can't borrow or have access to borrowing money.
    • Well done on referring to the consumer rights act. You're absolutely right, you are within 30 days and you have the right to reject it out of hand and to insist on a refund. Have you asserted your right in writing? If not, do it immediately. Do it by email and confirm by letter – referring to the email. It's essential that you do this now. Well done on having issued a letter before action. Please can you post it here in PDF format so we can have a look. On the basis of what you have told us, – in particular if you have evidence that you have asserted your right to reject, then there is absolutely no reason why should loose. However, to reassure you on the point of costs – your maximum risk factor is your own costs of bringing the action, the hearing fee if it goes that far – and their reasonable cost of travel if it goes that far and if there is an in-person hearing. Most hearings nowadays are conducted on the phone. Other than that there is nothing else to lose. The only slight point here that they could leverage is that you appeared initially to concede your right to reject by taking it to the manufacturer. I don't understand why you did this. I don't understand why you would pay good money for a brand-new machine and then accept the fact that it needed to be repaired. However, I don't really think that this will stand against you. It would have to be very unusual judge who would accept this. You need to understand that – especially with companies like Currys – whose customer service is extraordinarily bad – you must stand absolutely on your rights, give no ground – no prisoners. They will be merciless with you – any concession to them is simply giving ground. Let's see the letter of claim. Have you started preparing your particulars of claim? We can help you with that as well.
    • Thanks for your thoughts. I guess I could go to the OC and get them to add the defaults but that might be a long process.   I have only just started entertaining the idea of not paying as my main priority was getting a clear credit report as needed to move home urgently due to personal reasons. Now I am sorted on the credit file front its a case of seeing if I can stop paying this turkeys without going backwards.
    • then they can't comeback IMHO if you stop paying. you should have stopped paying there and then, but i suppose stepchance again poked their nose in and said either you cant just stop some debts through the plan, keep lining ours and their pockets.?   they are correct they cant register defaults themselves only the OC can.    
    • Hi Bankfodder   Yep, it's these guys.  I paid by debit card; online purchase.   I have been emailing them.  Should I send a letter?   Thank you for your help x
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    • I sent in the bailiffs to the BBC. They collected £350. It made me smile.
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
       
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
       
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
       
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
       
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
       
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
       
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
       
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
       
       
        • Thanks
    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
      • 1 reply
    • Natwest Bank Transfer Fraud Call HMRC Please help. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428951-natwest-bank-transfer-fraud-call-hmrc-please-help/&do=findComment&comment=5079786
      • 33 replies

PCN from "Civil Enforcement - ** CANCELLED **


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Hi,

 

I have just received a PCN from "Civil Enforcement" and I wondered if this template was a good one to send as an initial appeal to hope to put this to bed quickly. It seems pretty comprehensive and I thought I'd include it in it's entirety in case it can help others as a useful template/guide to the possible appeals. Is it good or are there any flaws? Thanks!:

 

[removed lengthy templates dx]

 

PCN.pdf

 

Here is my PCN notice. It is unclear whether it is a notice to driver or a notice to keeper. Is this a grounds for appeal? I see that POFA 2012 requires notices to keeper to:

 

- Advise that the driver is liable for the parking charge and the amount and that it has not been paid in full

- State whether a notice to the driver was given either to the driver or placed on the vehicle and if so to repeat the information in that notice about paying the parking charge and when

- Specify the outstanding amount of the parking charge and of the maximum additional costs they may seek to recover, and of the dispute resolution arrangements

- Invite the registered keeper to pay the outstanding parking charge or, if he was not the driver, to provide the name and address of the driver and to pass a copy of the notice on to that driver

 

so now I'm unsure of my first move....

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Personally and IMO, I wouldn't even bother sending that, it's way too long, and they will simply ignore it anyway.

 

As well as the Beavis case, this is not applicable to you, stop reading their silly website.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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You are forgetting that CEL are crooks and liars so a much simpler response is all that is needed.

"the notice to keeper ref:XXXX is not compliant with the PoFA and therefore no keeper liability has been formed. Now f*** off and dont bother me again you bunch of bandits."

In short, dont give them any credence they dont deserve. They will lie, produce false documents, false witness statements and various other things so I wouldnt even go along to POPLA if they write back to you. The only thing to remember si they always lose at court becuse they are known to every judge in the country and generally dont turn up as they would rather lose a few quid in costs then get sent to prison for contempt or perjury. They are really that bad. God knows why they are still members of any ATA.

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You are forgetting that CEL are crooks and liars so a much simpler response is all that is needed.

"the notice to keeper ref:XXXX is not compliant with the PoFA and therefore no keeper liability has been formed. Now f*** off and dont bother me again you bunch of bandits."

 

Brilliant! Alternatively refer them to Arkell v Pressdram...

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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You are forgetting that CEL are crooks and liars so a much simpler response is all that is needed.

"the notice to keeper ref:XXXX is not compliant with the PoFA and therefore no keeper liability has been formed. Now f*** off and dont bother me again you bunch of bandits."

In short, dont give them any credence they dont deserve. They will lie, produce false documents, false witness statements and various other things so I wouldnt even go along to POPLA if they write back to you. The only thing to remember si they always lose at court becuse they are known to every judge in the country and generally dont turn up as they would rather lose a few quid in costs then get sent to prison for contempt or perjury. They are really that bad. God knows why they are still members of any ATA.

 

Thanks for the quick reply! In what way exactly is their notice non-compliant? Shall I outline why it is not compliant in my letter to them? I thought the longer letter may put them off so they pursue easier targets?

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The longer letter won't put them off, they won't read it for a start.

 

Why would you want to tell them their puerile missive is non compliant?

 

Let them stew, as Ericsbrother said, should they wish to go down the legal route then they lose and you are reimbursed for your trouble.

 

In fact why would you want to enter the lethargic game of letter tennis?

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Is it non compliant? Ericsbrother stated it was and so I'd like to be sure why so I know I'd have a case if they pursue me.

 

I just don't want to lose and have to pay. I don't want to have to defend myself in court either (although I will if I have to), I can imagine it'd be time consuming and stressful. I just want this to go away asap without paying the swine and need advice on the best way to do this. Is there a better template of what to write to achieve this? I'm not as confident as you both seem to be and the risk is that I'll accrue more fines and penalties if I try to fight it so I want to get this right.

 

Many thanks again for your help.

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Have a look at PoFA, as ericsbrother says, there is no keeper liability, there is no need to keep yanking their chain and telling them exactly what is wrong with their missive, they're the ones in the business of conning folk out of money so they should know.

 

Court? Not a chance in hell.

And as for paying them anything, why would you?

 

The answer if you want to give them a response is in Erics response, two lines, that's all you need.

No signature, no identity, DON'T identify the driver OR yourself, or you'll walk straight into their trap and trip yourself up.

Hence the advice.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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if you go into any detail they will think that you are unsure of your position and continue to harass you in the hope you will eventually yield and pay up. CEL have a nasty habit of sending out demands that go up to around £600 with their mysterious costs but nevre explain how they come to them.

 

I have been taken to court by these bandits and they lost even before the actual claim was heard because the judge had decided that they have a history of telling lies and making up costs so he struck out their claim without actually hearing it when he looked at certain points of it.

 

They could have continued if they wanted (they phoned me the next day and said they were going to in the hope I would pay them a couple of hundred quid to go away) but the judge said that they would have no chance of winning on any of their points and the claims for additional costs were unlawfully accrued so they werent going to get any of that money anyway.

 

The propblem is the parking companies would lose collectively around £300 million a year if they stuck to the rules and make it simple for people so they will persist and you have to accept it is a long game or just pay up to make it go away, the choice is yours.

 

We hope that you stick it out, generally they use rentathreat solicitors or dca's to make them look bigger than they are but this is again mostly bluff otherwise they would just go ahead and sue and actually win but they dont becasue they lose most defended claims.

 

There is no need to explain yourself, they know they are caught out trying it on so dont do or say anything that can be seen as either weakness or ignorance. They know that their letter isnt PoFA compliant, they dont pretend that it is but they tell lies to the DVLA to get the keeper details and no-one throws the in prison so they carry on.

 

Even their trade association encourages them to continue misapplying the law because they would all go out of business if the worse ones were called out and publicly brought to account becasue even the best ones break the law, hide evidence, lie to judges and fial to follow their own codes of practice..

Edited by honeybee13
Paras.
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Thanks very much for explaining things. So it won't weaken my case any if I don't go to POPLA?

 

If I send the letter with my address on it but no name or signature will that weaken my case any?

 

If not how about this letter I've drafted as per your suggestions? Shall I just send it as is with no "Yours sincerely" or whatever? Not signing it off seems weird....

 

Dear Sir,

 

The Parking Charge Notice ref: XXXX you sent to this address is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and therefore no keeper liability has been formed.

 

The billable hours and expenses spent researching and dealing with this issue have already been logged and will continue to be so if harassment with this spurious penalty continues for a future invoice of costs incurred.

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They have addressed you so you can leave the letter with just the typed name they wrote to. CEL have a lot of trouble with signatures ( you should read about them and the retired solicitor Swartz) so they are the only people I wouldnt sign off a letter to.

As for the bit about billable hours, this is an nonsensical as their claims, I dont know where you got that from but ditch it or make yourself look even more stupid than they do. I suggested a one liner, either use it or shortn it to leave out the foff part if you want to be polite but dont complicate things and risk dropping yourself in it by saying something that can be used against you..

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  • 3 weeks later...

Success! I sent the letter as you advised and just got their cancellation today. Brilliant! Many, many thanks, it feels good to have told them where to stick it and have justice prevail.

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well done and good of you to come back and tell us. Every time someone does that it helps us to help others as we can see what quickly works and what needs more time and patience.

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