Jump to content


Suspended with pay.


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 2818 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Hi all I was just after a bit of advice as to what I should do.

 

I work in a call centre for a large telecom company, I've been there for about two and a half years now. Over the last two weeks I've been made to listen to some of my own calls and fill out self assessment forms, no reason for this was given.

 

Today I logged in as normal got over half way through my shift and I got an e-mail saying log out for a meeting, completely out of the blue with nothing scheduled in. I went with my manager to the meeting room expecting something minor, until I see a note taker sitting at the desk, they sit me down and tell me I'm under investigation. I immediately asked them why I've received no formal invitation and no time to prepare or have a representative attend. My manager stated that it was a fact finding meeting and as it was not a disciplinary I was not entitled to notice or a rep.

 

They pulled me in for minor breaches of company DPA policy, nothing serious I thought, I just forgot to ask a minor question on a few calls. They had 8 calls to hand and 4 missed the question, this is not representative of my actual work as I take hundreds of calls per week. DPA in my department is more complex than most as we deal with third parties. I admitted my mistakes, and raised some issues around the training provided by my manager. He produced some hastily signed forms with the DPA procedure on them and pointed out a number of methods for us to gain access to this procedure, none of which we realistically have time to do while taking calls.

 

They dismissed the meeting, and my manager and the note taker discussed the outcome, they decided to suspend me with pay pending an investigation for gross misconduct as I'm a threat to the business for missing a tiny number of DPA questions as a genuine mistake. I asked who would be investigating and my manager said he would, I said that this would be a conflict of interest he said it wouldn't and that was basically it. Does anyone know what my rights are with this? I mean I'm at university at the moment and I can't afford to have a negative mark on my employment record when I graduate. I'm absolutely shocked, I had no idea this would happen when I walked in to work this morning. I've been given no paperwork, I've had my ID confiscated. If I'm a threat to the business why wait until over halfway through my shift to suspend me.

 

My manager doesn't like me, but I had no idea this was coming.

 

Is there anything I should be doing to better my chances of coming out of this still employed at this early stage?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Nope, I wouldn't even know where to begin getting one?

 

Being in a union is a good idea, but check what help they can give you for events occurring prior to membership.

Its a bit like insurance : they don;t have to 'backdate' responsibility / to cover for events that have already occurred prior to membership / the policy.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I just took a look, the union for my employer specifically states in their FAQ that they won't provide resources or expertise to people who join only when they have a problem.

 

This is the usual position, as it is for insurance too.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you have been employed for less than 2 years they can get rid of you without much problem.

Your manager was probably looking for an excuse and to find that you breached the dpa policy he must have spent hours listening to your calls' recordings.

Sounds like he is determined to get you out.

In any case, even if you are dismissed, this won't impact in your career, it's not a criminal record.

If it gets to the point of dismissal ask if you could at least have future reference.

Link to post
Share on other sites

so here is the thing

 

forms you signed hastily without reading them properly? your problem

 

thinking DPA is just a technicality that doesn't matter much? your problem

 

you regularly (evidence shows 50%) breaching protocol? their problem, and it can have huge repercussions for them.

 

I'd start by getting your head in space where you acknowledge you are NOT up to scratch here, and work on your apology. You may be lucky and hang on in there. I dont think any other tactic will work.

Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with Emmzzi here.

 

When the time comes, go back in with a apologetic attitude. Ask to be retrained, point out that after thinking on the matter you realise how serious your conduct has been and how it impacts on the company and clients and that you would like the opportunity to improve and demonstrate the companies values.

 

For a Disciplinary make sure you take a witness and make sure that this time, you read the notes they make and counter sign them ONLY if they capture the main points of the meeting.

 

AND JOIN A UNION! a Union is external to the company and will help you should you find yourself in this situation or need other help[ at work in this job or any other. Should the worst happen, some unions have cheap membership fees should you find yourself out of work and offer help in finding work too.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

 

 

 

The SabreSheep, All information is offered on good faith and based on mine and others experiences. I am not a qualified legal professional and you should always seek legal advice if you are unsure of your position.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the feedback guys.

 

Just a couple of points, while the evidence they have suggests I've failed DPA on 50% of calls this evidence was cherry picked. He has four calls with me failing DPA because four is all he can find. It's not like a random subsection of calls has been taken, he gets to listen through each call before writing it up as evidence.

 

For the sections that I have failed DPA on, I've already admitted that I was at fault. The issues are that when a third party did not hold a password I asked them two additional questions rather than three. And that when a first party rang up I asked for the customers ID details but did not ask if they'd "seen ID". These were slips of the mind and not something I normally do, but as we have three different DPA procedures each with 8-10 points to cover, some of the minor bits slipped my mind on a minority of calls due to tiredness. I'm a medical student currently pulling extended weekend shifts to accommodate my studies so between reading, studying, lectures, travelling, placements and working, I'm pretty much working 7 days a week.

 

I joined a union last night, seems my workplace has two unions.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I do not think "my manager is evil" or "I am tired" will have legs. It raeally, really is not what managers like to hear.

Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe in the banking sector that 2 questions is the bare minimum and more than 5 is data mining and a risky thing in case employees on the phones then use that info for nefarious reasons. However, if 3 is their requirement then 3 it is so you need to try and apologise, say that your lack of training (if it can be shown that it was likely to be falling short of what is necessary-I do not believe thet being directed to a page in the infranet is adequate training for something this important) or understanding of the requirements of the particular task led to these errors and ask that you be given extra support to make sure it doesnt occur again.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

For the sections that I have failed DPA on, I've already admitted that I was at fault. The issues are that when a third party did not hold a password I asked them two additional questions rather than three. And that when a first party rang up I asked for the customers ID details but did not ask if they'd "seen ID". These were slips of the mind and not something I normally do, but as we have three different DPA procedures each with 8-10 points to cover, some of the minor bits slipped my mind on a minority of calls due to tiredness. I'm a medical student currently pulling extended weekend shifts to accommodate my studies so between reading, studying, lectures, travelling, placements and working, I'm pretty much working 7 days a week.

 

What a great learning experience for your portfolio and reflective learning.

 

He produced some hastily signed forms with the DPA procedure on them and pointed out a number of methods for us to gain access to this procedure, none of which we realistically have time to do while taking calls.

 

So, at least 3 learning points / reflective episodes spring to mind:

 

1) When you qualify as a junior doctor you'll sign lots of notes, prescriptions and forms.

Read what you are signing, and only sign if you believe it to be true (if notes / a statement) and/or expect to be bound by it (such as if a form / signing that you understand data protection).

 

2) You'll have access to lots of personal information for a large number of people and have an obligation to your patients (and can be held to account by the GMC) regarding confidentiality. You'll do Information Governance training regularly : "I read it / signed that I'd read it / understood it but hadn't really" : just won't cut it. If working in GUMed/sexual health the GMC's civil penalties regarding confidentiality are backed up with criminal sanctions, too.

 

 

3) Become a student member of a union (the BMA) and a protection society (MPS or MDU), and a full member when you qualify : do this before you find that you need their help, protection societies and unions (as well as insurers) don't have to backdate cover to before you joined.

 

Get used to being tired and working 7 days a week : so your studies may be giving you a taste of what is to come .....

Link to post
Share on other sites

What a great learning experience for your portfolio and reflective learning.

 

 

 

So, at least 3 learning points / reflective episodes spring to mind:

 

1) When you qualify as a junior doctor you'll sign lots of notes, prescriptions and forms.

Read what you are signing, and only sign if you believe it to be true (if notes / a statement) and/or expect to be bound by it (such as if a form / signing that you understand data protection).

 

2) You'll have access to lots of personal information for a large number of people and have an obligation to your patients (and can be held to account by the GMC) regarding confidentiality. You'll do Information Governance training regularly : "I read it / signed that I'd read it / understood it but hadn't really" : just won't cut it. If working in GUMed/sexual health the GMC's civil penalties regarding confidentiality are backed up with criminal sanctions, too.

 

 

3) Become a student member of a union (the BMA) and a protection society (MPS or MDU), and a full member when you qualify : do this before you find that you need their help, protection societies and unions (as well as insurers) don't have to backdate cover to before you joined.

 

Get used to being tired and working 7 days a week : so your studies may be giving you a taste of what is to come .....

 

 

It's not that I didn't read the forms, or understand them, it was simply that I forgot two extremely minor points in a frequently changing system. I asked for a customers ID information and didn't follow up by asking if they'd seen the ID (something everyone just says yes to anyway because they're salesmen and they'd lose the sale if they said no). And instead of asking an additional third security question during a failed password check I told the third party to have the customer change their password to something they knew and denied access. In the first instance even had the third party not seen the ID, they'd have lied and I'd have had no way of knowing. In the second instance there was no information given out as the customer was instructed to change their password. Therefore the end result had I asked these questions would be the same.

 

Now it's not that I don't appreciate the feedback, but what's done is done, responding with "well you shouldn't have done that" isn't helping me because I'm aware of that. I just want to know what in your experience you'd do to escape this with as little damage as possible? I'm sure I don't need to tell you that the NHS will do background checks, and "gross misconduct" for failing DPA is going to result in me being unemployable. While I, know I can't just walk in to a meeting and tell them my team leader is trying to get rid of me because she doesn't like me. The reality of the situation is that's what's happening. I absolutely get why people would be sceptical about an employee saying that about their boss, but I need you to trust me on this one.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sure I don't need to tell you that the NHS will do background checks, and "gross misconduct" for failing DPA is going to result in me being unemployable. While I, know I can't just walk in to a meeting and tell them my team leader is trying to get rid of me because she doesn't like me. The reality of the situation is that's what's happening. I absolutely get why people would be sceptical about an employee saying that about their boss, but I need you to trust me on this one.

 

It depends what you mean by "background checks" : The NHS will perform an eDBS (and "list 99') to ensure you aren't a risk to children / vulnerable patients. Being fired (even for gross misconduct) won't show on an eDBS.

 

If you pass your exams and your conduct on the wards and in assessments and OSCEs in appropriate, I doubt what happened in your non-medical role will be checked.

 

If asked about it, be honest, as being caught in a lie might be a problem.

If so, use it as an example of "while I was a student I learnt outside of medicine, so it isn't going to be a problem in my practice of medicine".

 

If the worst happens and you get dismissed : if it is then preying on your mind : go see your personal tutor. Explain, and I bet they'll reassure you.

 

However, I reiterate: I doubt you'll be asked about for references from your employment outside medicine during your time as a student other than being asked about criminal convictions.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Bazza, that's extremely reassuring.

 

I'd rather keep the job but should it come down to it, I'd assume once they finish "investigating" they'll either dismiss it with a warning or start the gross misconduct proceedings. Should they start those proceedings and I quit, do I still count as being fired for gross misconduct?

Link to post
Share on other sites

you "resigned while under investigation for GMC" which is frankly no better

 

Just get your apologising hat on, and stop saying they were minor breaches. The might be to you but the aren't for your employer, so stop making excuses. It's the worse possible attitude to show in the hearing.

Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!

Link to post
Share on other sites

you "resigned while under investigation for GMC" which is frankly no better

 

Just get your apologising hat on, and stop saying they were minor breaches. The might be to you but the aren't for your employer, so stop making excuses. It's the worse possible attitude to show in the hearing.

 

The hazards of abbreviations (which I too am guilty of).

I take it GMC above is "gross misconduct" rather than "General Medical Council"? (both possible, given the OP is a medical student).

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Hi, I just thought I'd give you guys an update on this.

 

I'm still suspended, I've received no communication from them until today when I received a letter inviting me to a disciplinary hearing along with the evidence they intend to use. The letter they've sent me indicates the circumstances are exactly the same as when they suspended me so they've essentially had me suspended pending an investigation that has yielded nothing aside from what they already had. All of the evidence provided is exactly the same evidence used in the original meeting, which makes me think they haven't investigated at all.

 

They are pushing for gross misconduct, based on the four calls I mentioned previously. They've provided me with documents I've signed for two data protection policies, the personal DPA procedure which is essentially 'don't access your own account or the account of anyone you know' and the online DPA procedure which is about not leaking or selling information. Neither of these covers the customer DPA procedure we do over the phone with customers/dealers so they're trying to make it seem like I've signed a document I haven't signed by presenting similar documents I have signed.

 

Anyway I signed up for a union when this all kicked off, when I signed up their website didn't give a minimum term for assistance but I doubt they'll help me after being with them for only a month, I guess we'll see on monday.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Search the internet for ACAS guidelines and make sure they follow it to the letter.

 

Take someone with you.

 

I suggest you nitpick every statement they make and bring them to task over it.

 

Try and move the discussion from your alleged errors to their lack of thorough investigation.

 

Ask them for as much documents as you can.

 

In short be hard on them.

 

You may have made some mistakes but it doesn't mean you should lose your job so that someone will have a filled ego.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I've been trying for the best part of a week to get in touch with the union but they don't seem to be answering any of my e-mails.

 

HR have given me the number for two employee reps, neither of whom are answering.

 

It seems I'm going to have to go in there alone.

 

I've prepared a statement giving my explanation for the four failed calls, two of which are issues not covered by the companies DPA policy, and the other two are simple user error. I've apologised for the issues, explained that they won't happen again and given steps I'll take to ensure that. In terms of mitigation. I've mentioned that the fails happened while I was undertaking exams, and therefore studying and in labs/lectures all week, then pulling 17 hours over the weekend. I've also mentioned my boss' negative attitude towards me, numerous failures to follow up on call monitoring on his part and the fact that the minutes were altered removing at least one of his responses and making me sound abrupt. I've also mentioned that I consider the fact that I was suspended for an investigation yet no additional evidence was produced a breach of ACAS guidelines. I've also mentioned that this may have a severe impact on my future in the NHS.

 

If I'm going in there with a statement prepared am I obligated to send them it before hand?

 

Also is if this does end up going past appeal and to a tribunal, is there a limit to what they'd consider gross misconduct? It seems to me failing to ask two questions, one of which is completely inconsequential to the security of the account, is an extremely overboard response.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I've been trying for the best part of a week to get in touch with the union but they don't seem to be answering any of my e-mails.

 

HR have given me the number for two employee reps, neither of whom are answering.

 

It seems I'm going to have to go in there alone.

 

I've prepared a statement giving my explanation for the four failed calls, two of which are issues not covered by the companies DPA policy, and the other two are simple user error. I've apologised for the issues, explained that they won't happen again and given steps I'll take to ensure that. In terms of mitigation. I've mentioned that the fails happened while I was undertaking exams, and therefore studying and in labs/lectures all week, then pulling 17 hours over the weekend. I've also mentioned my boss' negative attitude towards me, numerous failures to follow up on call monitoring on his part and the fact that the minutes were altered removing at least one of his responses and making me sound abrupt. I've also mentioned that I consider the fact that I was suspended for an investigation yet no additional evidence was produced a breach of ACAS guidelines. I've also mentioned that this may have a severe impact on my future in the NHS.

 

If I'm going in there with a statement prepared am I obligated to send them it before hand?

 

Are you aiming for "here is my mitigation" or "attack is the best form of defence"?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've split it in to two sections, giving the reasons for my mistakes, the impact dismissal it will have on me. And the issues I've had within the business that have had an effect on this. So it's a bit of both.

 

Is that a bad idea?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've split it in to two sections, giving the reasons for my mistakes, the impact dismissal it will have on me. And the issues I've had within the business that have had an effect on this. So it's a bit of both.

 

Is that a bad idea?

 

It is mixed messages.

 

One potential interpretation is :

"I'm saying I'm sorry, but I'm not really sorry, as it is the businesses fault after all....."

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...