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    • In March 2016 I took out a boiler from a shade greener on a conditional sale for 10 years was approximately £40 per month for 10 years which sounded a bit expensive but they advised that all parts and labour would be covered over that 10 years and an annual safety check which sounded great as it took away the worries of the boiler breaking down and replacing with expensive parts plus they said they would power flush it so I went ahead And also they had a call out of a maximum of waiting 24 hours. The whole installation and power flush took approx 4.5 hours. I didn’t have any problems until 23 months later when the hot water was playing up and I was told when I rung that if it was debris in my boiler that the visit would be chargeable. I advised none of this was mentioned when I took the agreement but they was insistent as it happened I was due a service within a couple of days so they did the visit and said it was debris and they cleaned the heat exchange plate as a gesture of goodwill. Approx 6 months later started having intermittent problems with hot water so I called again and was told by an advisor over the phone that it was my heat exchange plate which was blocked due to debris and I would be charged, I asked the advisor if he was a gas safety registered engineer and he said he wasn’t so I asked how he could be making such technical diagnosis’s over the telephone and I asked why the boiler would be blocked with debris when a power flush is supposed to last 5-6 years, I also asked if they cleaned the filter on a boiler service which they said they didn’t and they didn’t have to. I got my own gas engineer to check and it was a different fault and rang back and they sent someone out. I made a complaint to asg and i posted on social media about the disgraceful way I was spoken to on the phone and their service in general only to be sent a letter threatening libel on me and I had two days to sign a letter promising I wouldn’t post anymore on such platforms. Hence i didn’t sign and the Facebook group was changed to private however within 24 hours staff members of asg tried to infiltrate the group and when I raised this with asg they banned me from using the 24 hour call out facility and would only allow me to communicate by recorded delivery as I’d been abusive and threatening to staff which they apparently had proof of to provide to the courts if necessary. I did a sars request to asg to request said copper of emails and call recordings to which they couldn’t supply so I made a complaint to the information commissioners office who in turn raised this with asg who admitted they infact did not have these (because it never happened). Also it transpired that my boiler wasn’t fitted to gas safe regulations/building regs/manufacturers instructions to which asg denied (the flue was discharging into next doors garden) to which asg sent their head engineer round who got my tenant to sign documents (with my name in the boxes) to say their was no issue with the flue even though this had been raised several time’s. I also found out there was a charge registered against my property which prevented me from remortgaging even onto a better rate that was never mentioned when I signed up. I took these issues to the financial ombudsman who looked at the case and in the meantime I got gas safe to inspect the boiler who confirmed it wasn’t legally compliant after my solicitor checked the boundaries of the property so the ombudsman ruled in my favour that they should wind down the credit agreement, remove the boiler and pay me £400 compensation as asg had many opportunities to rectify the issues and chose not to, they also didn’t believe that the boiler flush was done to a correct standard as after researching it should take 2 days to fit a boiler and do a complete power flush. I have never dealt with a company like a shade greener in my life and sincerely hope that telling my story that no one falls foul to these again.
    • Thank you dx100uk   I know I dropped the ball on this one and there’s no excuses for it. I should of done my research well before now and not leave all this to the last minute.    I’ll try and get on the website but if I can’t I’ll email this defense over today and keep this form updated.    Once again thank you all for helping me   Andrew
    • Do you live on your own?
    • Okay thanks it is a difficult one.
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Hi I apologise in advance if I do anything wrong.

I have never posted or written a post before.


On the 13th April 2016 shopping with my children, I used a Natwest Cash machine to withdraw money.

I checked the receipt as I was paid a redundancy payment and was due to pay the majority for a deposit on a new property I was in the process of purchasing.



I had been very careful not to spend much money as the deposit was due on the Friday.

I was horrified when I looked at the receipt, the balance available was almost £6000 lower than it should of been.


I immediately returned home and called the bank.

I discussed my query with a Customer Service Advisor then onto the Fraud Department, Online Bankng and Complaints.

I spent over two hours passed around.



The fraud team told me a refund would be in my bank within 5 days,

Online Banking Fraud team informed me that they had identified that someone had been trying to log into my account from an unknown device several times over the previous 48 hours and also confirmed that my money would be refunded

as it was clear I was a victim of fraud.


After speaking the various departments over the phone I still felt really concerned and distressed as I didn't feel confident that my money would be refunded in time to pay the deposit and this would result in losing a house I had my heart set on.



The information from all the Natwest Staff was inconsistent and now I realise it was also inaccurate. I decided to go into my local Branch and speak to the Manager as I had been advised that the bank should of refunded the £6000 immediately whilst they investigate.


I sat with the Branch Manger and explained my situation,

The Branch Manager seemed very understanding

spent over an hour ringing various departments,

looking at my account and trying to find out why the bank had told me a refund would take 5 days

and not an immediate refund.



I was so upset and distressed as I had taken redundancy from my previous employer

and this was to secure the purchase of my first home for my family

and I felt that this was not going to be refunded in time and not one of the advisors seemed to care.

The Branch Manager had experienced poor customer service herself from the various departments.



Eventually the Branch Manager informed me that I had not been refunded

as the transactions were still pending and that these had to clear before a refund could be issued.



The manager did inform me that the transactions were to a company abroad

and it was evident that I had been a victim of fraud.



The Manager offered to put a temporary credit in my account but could not cover the full amount for the deposit.

I was given a letter from the Branch Manager sympathising with my situation,

confirming that I had been a victim of fraud and CLEARLY stating that £6000 would be refunded into my account in 5 days time.


I declined the offer of a temp credit and I advised that I would request an extension for my deposit

as I could use the letter to prove that I would have the money in 5 days

and that I had been a victim of fraud.



I went to the solicitor and provided the letter as proof

and an extension was agreed among the parties involved

as my Solicitor had confirmed that he had seen an official letter.



I waited the 5 days and checked my account and no refund,

I left it till the following day and rang the bank to query why the money was not in my bank.

I spoke to a rude, arrogant man who abruptly stated 'your not having a refund'

I was mortified and just assumed he had made a mistake.


He told me the bank had made a decision not to refund,

a letter was in the post and that my account was going to be closed.



I was so upset and informed him that the Branch Manager had confirmed the refund,

the advisors I had spoken to has also told me a refund would be paid in 5 days.



The advisors words to me where 'the letter means nothing you may as well put it in the bin'

He went on to tell me that a Branch Manager has no authority to make this decision

and only the fraud team could make these decisions.


I was under the assumption that a Branch Manager was a person of authority

and was someone who could deal with issues such as mine.

I told him that the letter was an official letter and that my Solicitor had accepted it

as evidence for an extension on the sale of my new home.



'put it in the bin' I had worked myself into such a state crying and totally powerless.

I couldn't believe it.



From there on I have contacted the complaints team,

made a formal complaint, a spokesman said wrote an article about my situation

and also contacted the bank on my behalf but still no refund.


I have complained to the CEO and the Executive Team Manger responded

and advised one of his team would be looking into my case.



I rang the Exec Manager and discussed my issue.

He appeared to be really sympathetic and genuinely sounded as if he knew it was the Banks mistake.

I felt optimistic but



within a few days I received a final response letter from the exec team identical to the response from the Complaints team

and advising that the decision would not be overturned and they agreed with the Complaint Handler.


I had sent a response picking out all the mistakes they had made.

They had identified transactions made several months prior that appeared to be a similar merchant.



The amount was completely different and nowhere near the large amounts that had been made during this fraud.

I had been in hospital with Sepsis for 10 weeks throughout Novemeber

and all through Christimas and it was not until I returned home I recognised unauthorised transactions on my account.



I queried these

but did not request a refund

as I had concerns that a 17 year old male I had fostered for a year may have been involved.

I could not prove this so felt very restricted to confronting him.

I also did not want to involve the Police as it might have had nothing to do with him.


I explained this to the Complaints Handler and also informed her that I had not asked for the previous

'fraud concerns' to be refunded.



I had queried it as fraud but when the transaction details were provided I left it as that.

This had no similarities to the transactions made on this occasion the current fraud was £6000 over 24 hour period.



The complaint team response clearly states that

'I had been either involved in authorising the transactions or had been careless with my details'

They refused to provide any evidence or details of how they made this decision

and told me they were not required to as it was part of the NatWest fraud ,

security AND INVESTIGATION procedures which they did not have to disclose.


As explained their decision was clearly due to other transactions on my account, not identical and in the complaint response the information was incorrect. It was evident that this was what the handler had based her assumption on. The letter then stated that the Branch Manager had acted in good faith when writing the letter and this was written based on information I had provided. I almost choked. Are you being serious. If I went into a branch and told the Manager I had just won a million would she write a letter and confirm this information? NO. The Branch Manager is paid to make responsible and accurate decisions and as a senior member of staff are we really supposed to believe they would provide confirmation of a refund simply because a customer says so.


The complaint letter provided no evidence to back up this statement

but is clearly stating that I am lying and the Managers word is what they accept as true.



There was no other information in the complaint response

and the points I had made in my complaint had not been addressed

such as the FCA principles and the lending standards board guidelines they had failed to adhere to.



All Ignored

and the excuse they provided for not being able to provide any factual evidence

or hard copies of anything related was due to the fraud and security processes they could not breech this

and these processes could not be discussed with customers.


I feel I have exhausted all avenues with the Bank and the Bank has won.

They are just refusing with no proof, not even a reason but I feel powerless.



I contacted the FSA who advised that the bank had not followed various principles and guidelines

and that I should take this to the Ombudsman.



I am aware that the Ombudsman is a length process and from the information I have read on your site

and several others the ombudsman seem to side with the Banks and are not required to follow the FSA guidelines.

I had considered just going to the Small Claims Court.


To be honest it is not as important to me now,

I have lost the house I had been in the process of purchasing

and as the Branch Managers Letter appeared sincere and I trusted the Banks Branch Manager



I went ahead with land searches and now solicitors fees I have paid and all for nothing.

I am angry upset and feeling really low at the moment.



I have lost money and the house and feel devastated that over half of the money I received as redundancy

has just been stolen and there is nothing I can do, Its heart breaking.



If anyone has any advice or ideas that they think may help I would be very grateful as at the moment I have given up.

Edited by SabreSheep
Formatted for easier reading

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Please will you post up a copy of the letter that you have received in PDF format. I think that reading this will make it a little easier to understand the story.


Although I can see that you have told us your story "from the heart", it's rather overlong narrative style makes it rather difficult for us to get to the nitty-gritty and to understand exactly what has happened and to give you the help you need.


I think it will be a good idea if you could have a look at your story and then posted up again but in some kind of bullet pointed form and sticking to the relevant facts.


I understand that you have been a victim of a fraud – but which has maybe gone on for some time and may possibly be linked to somebody you know.


I understand also that although you have had your suspicions, in the past you haven't done anything about it.


I understand that your branch manager accepted that there was a fraud and gave you a letter confirming this and telling you that a refund would be made. I gather that in reliance on this letter that you went ahead and committed funds towards a property purchase including solicitors fees and other reasonable expenses.


I understand that the bank head office is now told you that the letter has no effect and that they won't be making any refund.


Let me say first of all, that if you have received a letter from your branch manager in which he has committed the bank to giving your refund, then I find it difficult to see that this is not binding and that if you have relied on this letter and incurred losses as a result, that they should best liability.


I think you should lay out the whole story – but a bit more carefully and with rather less emotion.


Also, please tell us what you think your losses are because I think that he will be important to understand what value of this is to you if you decide to make a complaint.


Your losses would include any expenses incurred attempting to buy a property. Also, if the property was a bargain and you will have to pay more money in order to get a replacement, it will be interesting to know to what extent you would be out of pocket in that respect also.

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I apologise in advance for the length

I have spent hours trying to cut it down but could not reduce it any further.

I have listed the facts and attached a copy of the Branch Managers letter.


I would be grateful of any advice or support as I feel defeated, upset and cheated.

Every penny has been stolen and the bank has no intention of taking responsibility.


NATWEST BASIC ACCOUNT complaint re: £6000 missing from my account.

Customer Service advisor informed me that there had been a large number of transactions

to one merchant that they were unable to identify as the transactions were still pending

Debit card cancelled, new one ordered.


I explained that I did not make the transactions and no one had access to my personal info or security details

I notified the fraud team that I had been contacted numerous times on my landline

and via e-mail by people claiming to be Microsoft,



due to my suspicions and concerns I contacted the Action Fraud to report it.

The crime reference number they had provided me with was passed on to the fraud team to investigate

if there was any connection to the fraud on my account.


The Online Banking Team informed me that they had identified several attempts

made from an unknown device to access my online banking.

The attempts were all unsuccessful.


The advisor explained that Online Software Fraud' was carried out by [problem]mers

who had the ability to access personal and security details stored in your lap top

and many other ways of accessing accounts.


I followed the instructions that I was given to change passwords

install rapport and set up online banking with new log in details.


I was re assured that the fraudulent transactions would be refunded,

an investigation would be completed as procedure

and then the money would be back in my account, within five days.


I expressed that I was concerned and worried as the money had been for a deposit

to secure the sale of a property that I had been going through the process of buying.



I had spent over a year searching for something affordable and this proved difficult to find something in my budget.

The deposit was due in two days time and the final details completed.



I informed the advisor that I could risk losing the property if I was unable to pay the deposit.

I paid for land searches etc, Solicitors fees and had given notice on my home.


I was informed of some of the guidelines the bank were expected to follow and demanded a refund

based on the guideline the bank should refund transactions that the customer has not made

unless they have proof of negligence or fraud.

No explanation, evidence , proof or information was provided in relation to the unauthorised transactions


The Natwest Bank were unfair and failed to follow a number of the FSA rules

and several of their own lending code rules.


I had no confidence or reassurance that this problem was going to be resolved.

The information was inconsistent and vague. I



went to the Natwest Branch and requested to speak to the Branch Manager.

The Branch Manager, contacted the various departments, discussed the issues

and the suspected fraud and it was confirmed that it was highly likely that I had been a victim of fraud.

The transactions had not cleared at this time and were still showing as pending.


The Branch manager explained that the transactions were still pending.

In order to dispute them they had to show as cleared.


The Manager accessed my account, looked at previous statements

and a previous query I had made in relation to transactions I did not recognise

I explained the details with the Manager;

Over a period of around 12 months I had identified a number of transactions I had not authorised

At the time I queried the transactions.


Details of three online gaming sites had been used and a number of transactions had been made.

At this time I had temporarily fostered a lad who was 17,

I became aware of unauthorised transactions but at the time

I did not have any hard evidence and did not feel it was appropriate to make accusations.


I did not report this as fraud and made no request for the transactions to be refunded refund.

I changed my bank card and details and monitored my online banking as a precaution.


Between November and January I had been admitted to the critical care unit in the hospital,

during this period my condition was life threatening and I was unable to physically move.

The lad I fostered went into temporary foster care until I returned home.


During this period a number of transactions were made again to the gaming sites that had been used previously.

I only became aware of this a month after I was discharged from hospital.


The period of time that I identified transactions I had not made and also in the final response report I recently received

I have a letter that clearly states I was in critical care and unable to function normally during the time



unauthorised transactions were being made from my debit card.

I had my bank cards in hospital with me and no one had access to my home during this time.

I mention this because the manager asked me about the transactions and why I had queried them.


The unauthorised transactions I am disputing at present are not the same,

the previous disputed transactions are significantly smaller amounts,

the same three gaming sites that have been used before.


The Manager checked my account and told me that the merchant details identified a company

called 'Fabulous' that appeared to be overseas.


The Branch manager identified there was an unusually high number of transactions,

large amounts all made in a short period of time, these were excessive in comparison to any previous.


She informed me that a temporary payment could be arranged into my account

to help ease any pressure or stress until the unauthorised transactions were refunded.


I declined the offer of a temporary credit

as the money that had been in my account prior to the unauthorised transaction was all due to go towards the deposit.

I was reassured by the manager that this was standard procedure

and repeatedly confirmed that the money would be refunded in full.


I asked the Branch Manager if I could receive confirmation of this in writing to avoid any further issues.

I was given a letter confirming all the information in writing confirming the amount of the refund and the timescale.


My Solicitor accepted my letter as poof that I the funds for the deposit would be available in 5 days,

my Solicitor accepted this letter as it had been authorised by an individual in a Senior Position

who you would expect to provide accurate and honest information.


5 days no refund. The following day, nothing.

I contacted the bank asked why I the money had not been refunded.

The advisor responded by saying the refund had been declined.


I advised that I had confirmation of the refund in a letter written by the Branch Manager,

his response was

'The Branch Manager had no authorisation to agree a refund 'you may as well put it in the bin as it is worthless'.


The advisor told me I had to appeal first stating why I wished to dispute the decision they had made

I explained

1. The promise and agreement the Branch Manager had confirmed in writing

2. The various misleading, inconsistent and false information I had received throughout my ordeal.

3. The bank was unable to provide evidence of any wrong doing on negligence against the customer

4. Un-necessary delays dealing with the investigation


The advisor refused to discuss anything further and explained I would receive a response in writing


Finally he notified mel that I had 90 days to remove my funds from my account

and to find alternative banking facilities as the Natwest had made a decision to close my account.


I contacted the CEO direct via email and received a response from the manager of the executive team.

My complaint had been allocated to a complaints specialist who would be in touch.


Several points were raised in my complaint, two were addressed ,

there was no acknowledgement or explanation for the others I had raised.


1. the complaints handler addressed had not been a concern I had raised in my complaint.

The first point states that transactions between 27.02.16 - 01.03.2016 to two gaming sites were raised as fraud previously.

no other info


2.states that between March and the 1st April following a replacement card being issued

transactions were made to retailers previously used but I had not raised these as a dispute.


3. A refund was paid into my account from a gaming website and it was not disputed


4. £6050 transactions made to an overseas game site that you claim had been a result of a Microsoft [problem],

there is no evidence to suggest that this is how the disputed transactions have taken place


5.The letter you received from The Branch Manager, was provided based information you provided

regarding the transactions you disputed, we have no evidence that this is fraud and therefore your letter is invalid


The Complaint Handlers final response:


The Bank will not overturn the decision to overturned the declined transactions

as these were either carried out by you or with your authorisation


You were advised that you would be compensated for two hours of call charges,

I apologised you were given incorrect information and can confirm that we will not be refunding these funds on this occasion.


I hope I have resolved these issues if you are unhappy you have the right to refer to the FOS


I have spoke to the FSA who went through the guidelines and the BCOBS that

he felt had not been adhered to and advised me to raise this with the FOS immediately.

He also sent me some information that I could use to complete the FOS complaint.


I must admit I feel completely powerless with no other routes to go down.

The Bank have not provided any proof of fraud or evidence that justify the decision to decline my refund.



The official letter from the Branch Manager ignored, rules and guidelines the FSA state they should adhere to,

ignored and even the points made in my complaint ignored and they seem to raise there own questions

and answers irrelevant to my dispute.

Where do I go from here I am stumped.


The property I was in the process of buying is back up for sale

and I have paid around £430 to the Solicitor for land searches work completed on my behalf

and checks were carried out recently relating to the property I have requested a receipt detailing the costs.


I'm not sure if I posted the new post correctly did I need to reply to post?

I created a new post and attached the pdf letter.


would be really grateful is anyone could give me any advice.



Sceptical about the FOS and spoke to the FSA again today

and informed them that the banks ignored the rules set out by them

and I have also heard the FOS don't take much notice as they are not legally bound by them.


Feel really powerless,

lost half of my redundancy,

unable to process with the purchase of a property,

lost around £580 for land searches and other legal costs

and penalised for transactions I did not authorise.



This seems so wrong how do the Banks get away with it.


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Threads merged...please keep to one thread.





We could do with some help from you.



 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service


If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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I would suggest

having worked on banking fraud and the 'windows/microsoft' spoofers

that the two issues are linked...




the fact that your lodger probably got your details


that the virus cleaners spoofers got money.



are both linked to the same debit card number

cancelling the card will not stop anything

its done via continuous payment authority.



did you directly have any dealing with these callers that claim to be from windows/Microsoft

and did you fall for it?




please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..


if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, the whole DCA industry would collapse overnight.



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Hi, Yes I did speak tt o the callers who were instructing me to key in various commands into my laptop. I did follow the instructions first of all but as I gre more suspicious I stopped.


They called several times and on one occasion I tried to hang up but when I went to make a call they were still on the line.


I also received several e-mails that appeared to be Microsoft but the end of the e-mail address didn't seem right. I am uncertain as to whether I opened the e-mails as I have been sent a few.ld


I offered to forward the e-mails to Natwest but they declined incase they contained viruses that could be passed onto them.


Natwest have informed me they dont believe this is linked to the transctions.

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well it is linked

these windows spoofers get you to install a program called TeamViewer

or alike to gain access to your PC

they then distract you with other things while they download you documents file in the background

then they have your complete details

esp if you use your PC to do online banking



job done.




please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..


if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, the whole DCA industry would collapse overnight.



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yes i do use my lap top for my online banking

and when I reported the unauthorised transaction to them when i first reported it.



I gave them a crime ref number off action fraud police

and as I said offered to forward the e-mails but



the Banks response was this is not typical of [problem]mers and we are unable to detect fraud on your account

and believe you have either authorised or commited the fraud.



I have responded by asking them to provide evidence of how they came to this conclusion

and requested that they send me the information to support the outcome to refund my money.


They wont budge and I have no idea of how what to do next.

This has made me so ill and stressed,



they only addressed one of the points I made in my complaint and did not even acknowledge any others.

The final response to my complaint provided no further information

and stated they could not give me further information from their investigation

or the process as it could be used to help fraudsters.


I also asked them if they had reported the findings to the police as the outcome of the investigation

and their comments would mean that I had committed fraud and should be reported.

I told them that if they had not reported it then I would contact the police

and inform them that I was available and willing to attend an interview.


The Manager of the Executive team responded that they had not reported it

but if I had information as to who may have carried out the fraud

then they would pass it onto the police and try to claim some money back through that route.


Natwest have left me financial drained, expenses and losses as a result of the false promises in the letter

and my health due to the stress and lack of sleep is not good.


Anyone any ideas what i should do.

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you need to sar NatWest

its no good guessing want is going on.


and you need to knock up a timeline of your calls from/to the windows spoofers.


can you go up on your telephone providers website

and download your call log for the relevant period.


you need to gather all the info and proof you can.



please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..


if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, the whole DCA industry would collapse overnight.



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I have decided to make a complaint to the FOS,


Financial Loss - £580 fees for Solicitors fees/searches etc paid after Branch Manager had confirmed the refund in writing


Agreed Sale on Property £10,000 cheaper than asking price and within my budget following nearly two years looking for a property with my budget.


I have now lost out on the sale and to purchase a similar property will cost me between 15,000-20,000 more (based on information of recent sales in the area).


The Banks just don't seem bothered at all its so unfair


Should I complaint to the FOS? FSA told me to list all the BCOBS and principles they have failed to adhere to and give explanations. Any advice on the nest way to complete the complaint.?



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Not sure if anyone can see my posts but if anyone can advise on this please.



The following is a response to a recent email I sent to the executive team

asking for a detailed response to my complaint and also for them to answer all of the issues not just two out of 7.



This addresses the issue I raised about the manager confirming that I would receive my refund in 5 days

then refusing several weeks later.


Can anyone give me advice or opinions

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post 9

did you get the sar running?



what response?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..


if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, the whole DCA industry would collapse overnight.



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I don't know what a sar is. Sorry if I'm being really dull.

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its a request for all paperwork NatWest hold on you

you need it as outlined in post 9




please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..


if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, the whole DCA industry would collapse overnight.



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I don't know what a sar is. Sorry if I'm being really dull.


If you click the word SAR above in DXs post and yours...it will take you there:wink:

We could do with some help from you.



 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service


If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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